Digital BW, The Print

Forgive me for not following the list for a while...

My FS inks in my 1160 are running out and I want to replace them with an inkset that 
can print on glossy paper. Being able to also print on matte paper would be a plus.

I've noticed talk about the UT and UT2 inks and photoblack and Ebony black.

I use the original QTR to print with and have gotten pretty good at making curves by 
eye.

So my question is: Can someone suggest a combination of inks that can print on 
glossy and matte? Will 2 greys + photoblack + ebony be a good solution?

2 greys + 1 black + 1 toner?

How good are these new pigment inks on glossy papers really? Are they limited to 
certain glossy papers? Do they need to be spray coated?

Would I be better off with Lyson quad black dye inks? (yeah, I know they'll fade faster, 
but do they look better on glossy papers?

Thanks fellow b&w enthusiasts!

-bruce

Bruce,

>...
>My FS inks in my 1160 are running out and 
>I want to replace them with an inkset that can print on glossy paper. 
>Being able to also print on matte paper would be a plus.

The new MIS UT-FS inksets are MIS Ultra Tone family and are glossy-paper
compatible.  With the 1160, however, you'd have to switch between Photo K
and Eboni matte K.  Also, I don't think the 1160 black jet is as good as the
newer ones.  

>I've noticed talk about the UT and UT2 inks and photoblack and Ebony black.

UT1 is a variable-tone inkset that can be used in the 1160.  It can print on
glossy or matte, but the black inks do need to be changed.  Again, however,
for glossy paper I recommend a modern printer.

>I use the original QTR to print with and have gotten pretty 
>good at making curves by eye.

Good. I have tried to simplify curve making with the Epson driver also.  The
monotone UT-FS inksets are, of course, the easiest.  

In fact, what I'm doing now is writing curves for the UT-FS inks and the
Epson 1270. (The is 1280 done, and 2000P just started.) 

The UT-FS or UT-FSN in the hextone printers can print on matte or glossy
without changing the black ink.  The FS ink order I use is what I refer to
as "CMCMY."  There are 2 dark gray inks (FS C in C & M), 2 medium grays (FS
M in c & m), and one light gray (FS Y in Y).  The 2 dark gray inks together
give a good dmax without any further black ink.  For example, the 1270 UT-FS
dmax on Ilford Pearl is 2.30, even though I have Eboni installed in the
printer.  

For quick, short term B&W glossy prints, this system on cheap Epson Glossy
Photo paper is very hard to beat.  It makes bronzing-free, super-smooth
glossy prints with a dmax of 1.90. I don't think any other pigmented inkset
can do this.

>How good are these new pigment inks on glossy papers really? 
>Are they limited to certain glossy papers? 
>Do they need to be spray coated?

Most of the glossy papers need spraying, in my view.  The bronzing seems to
be associated with the micro-porous coatings in the newest papers.  On the
other hand, Epson Premium Semigloss (Wilhelm rated at >200 years) sprayed
with PremierArt Print Shield is excellent, in my view.  

I think the spraying is easy enough that this is what I consider the "high
end" way to go.  It makes the print so well sealed that the surface becomes
washable.  (Try that with a silver print.)  My initial fade test results
with Epson's Premium Semigloss are as good as the best (UT on UltraSmooth).
So, I think this combination is a serious medium.

There are only limited options if one wants to avoid spraying glossy prints.

For bronzing-free, pigment-based, B&W glossy prints, this is the only
combination I know of:   Epson Glossy Photo Paper and Epson Glossy Paper
Heavyweight, printed with MIS Ultra Tone family inks.

I happen to like to do both types of printing and avoiding spraying or
changing inks.  So, this is what I've come up with.

(UltraChrome inks do not do well on these papers.)



Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Bruce,
> 
> >...
> >My FS inks in my 1160 are running out and 
> >I want to replace them with an inkset that can print on glossy paper. 
> >Being able to also print on matte paper would be a plus.
> 
> The new MIS UT-FS inksets are MIS Ultra Tone family and are glossy-paper
> compatible.  With the 1160, however, you'd have to switch between Photo K
> and Eboni matte K.  Also, I don't think the 1160 black jet is as good as the
> newer ones.  

> 
> UT1 is a variable-tone inkset that can be used in the 1160.  It can print on
> glossy or matte, but the black inks do need to be changed.  Again, however,
> for glossy paper I recommend a modern printer.
> 

> 
> The UT-FS or UT-FSN in the hextone printers can print on matte or glossy
> without changing the black ink.  The FS ink order I use is what I refer to
> as "CMCMY."  There are 2 dark gray inks (FS C in C & M), 2 medium grays (FS
> M in c & m), and one light gray (FS Y in Y).  The 2 dark gray inks together
> give a good dmax without any further black ink.  For example, the 1270 UT-FS
> dmax on Ilford Pearl is 2.30, even though I have Eboni installed in the
> printer.  

Do you mean 2.30 without any black ink used? 

Do you think with the QTR driver I can lay down enough dark gray ink to make a 
"glossy paper black" with it?


> For quick, short term B&W glossy prints, this system on cheap Epson Glossy
> Photo paper is very hard to beat.  It makes bronzing-free, super-smooth
> glossy prints with a dmax of 1.90. I don't think any other pigmented inkset
> can do this.

Is this using a black ink? If so, which?

> 
> I think the spraying is easy enough that this is what I consider the "high
> end" way to go.  It makes the print so well sealed that the surface becomes
> washable.  (Try that with a silver print.)  My initial fade test results
> with Epson's Premium Semigloss are as good as the best (UT on UltraSmooth).
> So, I think this combination is a serious medium.

I always get dust landing on my sprayed prints:-)
> 
> There are only limited options if one wants to avoid spraying glossy prints.
> 
> For bronzing-free, pigment-based, B&W glossy prints, this is the only
> combination I know of:   Epson Glossy Photo Paper and Epson Glossy Paper
> Heavyweight, printed with MIS Ultra Tone family inks.
> 
> I happen to like to do both types of printing and avoiding spraying or
> changing inks.  So, this is what I've come up with.
> > 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com


Thanks for your suggestions Paul.

Do you think the 1160 can make a good print with just black + 2 grays? That way I 
can load both photo  and matte blacks at the same time. And if so, which gray inks 
should I choose. I do like the color of the old FS inks I have now.

Thanks again Pual!

-bruce

Bruce,

I am working on a borrowed 1270.  UT-FS inks are loaded in the CMCMY order.
Eboni is loaded.  The Ilford Pearl paper I just made a curve for has a dmax
of 2.30 with this setup; the 100% patch is generated with the 2 dark gray
inks, not a black ink.  It would be higher after spraying.  

The Epson Premium Semigloss prints smoother than the Ilford and is archival
(according to Wilhelm).  Before spraying it has a dmax of 1.97-2.0.  After
spraying it is 2.16.  (These "fresh" dmax readings on glossy paper might
decrease slightly as they cure over the first day or so.)

The easiest and probably cheapest paper (letter size) is Epson Glossy Photo
Paper.  The 1.9 dmax I noted below is what I get with the 1270 with Eboni
loaded but not used for the glossy paper.  It would also be higher if
sprayed, but since it has no bronzing, I don't spray it.  The dmax will also
be higher when I load the Photo K.  Whether it's worth the difference is
debatable.  I think the dmax will look higher when I load the FS-N.  The
cooler blacks tend to look darker.

The variable tone inksets from UT2 (1280) forward can also print on glossy
paper this way.  The variability also allows better but more difficult
profiling with curves.  The use of 2 dark gray, glossy-compatible inks is
what allows these UT systems to print on either glossy or matte papers
without changing the inks.

(I don't know what QTR can do with one or 2 dark gray inks.)

(I also don't know if the 1160 is up to the glossy printing.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
_____________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: smthopr2000 [mailto:bagreene@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 7:18 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] time to replace FS inks on 1160



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Bruce,
> 
> >...
> >My FS inks in my 1160 are running out and 
> >I want to replace them with an inkset that can print on glossy paper. 
> >Being able to also print on matte paper would be a plus.
> 
> The new MIS UT-FS inksets are MIS Ultra Tone family and are glossy-paper
> compatible.  With the 1160, however, you'd have to switch between Photo K
> and Eboni matte K.  Also, I don't think the 1160 black jet is as good as
the
> newer ones.  

> 
> UT1 is a variable-tone inkset that can be used in the 1160.  It can print
on
> glossy or matte, but the black inks do need to be changed.  Again,
however,
> for glossy paper I recommend a modern printer.
> 

> 
> The UT-FS or UT-FSN in the hextone printers can print on matte or glossy
> without changing the black ink.  The FS ink order I use is what I refer to
> as "CMCMY."  There are 2 dark gray inks (FS C in C & M), 2 medium grays
(FS
> M in c & m), and one light gray (FS Y in Y).  The 2 dark gray inks
together
> give a good dmax without any further black ink.  For example, the 1270
UT-FS
> dmax on Ilford Pearl is 2.30, even though I have Eboni installed in the
> printer.  

Do you mean 2.30 without any black ink used? 

Do you think with the QTR driver I can lay down enough dark gray ink to make
a 
"glossy paper black" with it?


> For quick, short term B&W glossy prints, this system on cheap Epson Glossy
> Photo paper is very hard to beat.  It makes bronzing-free, super-smooth
> glossy prints with a dmax of 1.90. I don't think any other pigmented
inkset
> can do this.

Is this using a black ink? If so, which?

> 
> I think the spraying is easy enough that this is what I consider the "high
> end" way to go.  It makes the print so well sealed that the surface
becomes
> washable.  (Try that with a silver print.)  My initial fade test results
> with Epson's Premium Semigloss are as good as the best (UT on
UltraSmooth).
> So, I think this combination is a serious medium.

I always get dust landing on my sprayed prints:-)
> 
> There are only limited options if one wants to avoid spraying glossy
prints.
> 
> For bronzing-free, pigment-based, B&W glossy prints, this is the only
> combination I know of:   Epson Glossy Photo Paper and Epson Glossy Paper
> Heavyweight, printed with MIS Ultra Tone family inks.
> 
> I happen to like to do both types of printing and avoiding spraying or
> changing inks.  So, this is what I've come up with.
> > 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com


Thanks for your suggestions Paul.

Do you think the 1160 can make a good print with just black + 2 grays? That
way I 
can load both photo  and matte blacks at the same time. And if so, which
gray inks 
should I choose. I do like the color of the old FS inks I have now.

Thanks again Pual!

-bruce






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