Digital BW, The Print

Tom,

As you don't keep the message you are answering to we don't understand what you are saying. As I use a 4000 I could have been interested by your post but understand nothing of it. Also what do you mean by USFA ?

Michel

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tom OConnell 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 1:46 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Enhanced Matte vs. Smooth Fineart



  I do pretty much the same thing with a 4000 using image print.

  Nothing gets the measured dmax of EEM for me, but USFA looks nearly 
  the same because it it is warmer and I move the IP tone slider up 10 
  from neutral to add a bit more warmth.

  If you test with a densitometer, you will never get the same from 
  what I can tell.

  Tom O'Connell







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michael-

UltraSmoothFineArt paper. I like it better than the other FA paper.

I use Image Print and make the prints slightly warm which seems to 
give the appearance of greater dmax.

tom


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sinwen" 
<sinwen@f...> wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> As you don't keep the message you are answering to we don't 
understand what you are saying. As I use a 4000 I could have been 
interested by your post but understand nothing of it. Also what do 
you mean by USFA ?
> 
> Michel
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Tom OConnell 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 1:46 AM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Enhanced Matte vs. Smooth Fineart
> 
> 
> 
>   I do pretty much the same thing with a 4000 using image print.
> 
>   Nothing gets the measured dmax of EEM for me, but USFA looks 
nearly 
>   the same because it it is warmer and I move the IP tone slider up 
10 
>   from neutral to add a bit more warmth.
> 
>   If you test with a densitometer, you will never get the same from 
>   what I can tell.
> 
>   Tom O'Connell
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as they are often being updated.
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
from the membership without notice.
>   - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may 
be removed from the membership.
>   - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" 
in the Files section:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
>   BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, 
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL 
BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF 
SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT 
OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) 
ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>              
>        
>        
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>       
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>       
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 

> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sinwen" <sinwen@f...> wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> As you don't keep the message you are answering to we don't understand what you are 
saying. As I use a 4000 I could have been interested by your post but understand nothing 
of it. Also what do you mean by USFA ?
> 
> Michel
======================

From reading the subject line I would guess that USFA is Ultra Smooth Fine Art--and I see 
that Tom has also posted that in a subsequnet reply.

I agree that including salient parts of prior postings can be helpful--sometimes the 
abbrevations posted here are more challenging than the NYT (New York Times) crossword 
puzzle.  But, if I haven't been following a string, I go to the archives to read the history.

What's really unfortunate is that, in "coaching" Tom, Michel included not only the prior 
message in his post, but all of the admin info at the end of it--including the instructions 
that Tom was following to clean up threads:

     "..As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short."

As a result of including Tom's note AND all the group admin info,  Michel's posting of a 
two line reply resulted in a 1 1/2 page note.  Tom's later reply replicated it.

We frequently get digests from this list that are 50 or more pages long, but only contain 
1-2 pages of new info in the postings.  Sometimes a single reply of 2 words includes a 
string of notes, each with the admin info at the end, making a single 2 word posting 4-5 
pages long! 

It would be a nice thing if we could include enough of a prior thread to make sure replies 
are useful (Like Michel asks for), but trim all the excess stuff off the bottom.

Closing notes:  

1.  I'm offering this as a positive suggestion for all of us--my apologies to Tom and Michel 
for using their notes for an example--  :-)

2.  I think (i'm guessing here) this happens most often when users get individual emails 
instead of the digest.  The admin info is included at the end of each mail sent out and also 
on the bottom of each digest.  When users get the individual emails and choose reply to 
the list, their email program includes the admin info, but they likely never scroll down far 
enough to ever see it and therefore don't realise they are sending it along with therir reply.

3.  Perhaps the group moderator would consider changing to an edited, abbreviated 
version of the admin info with a link to a more detailed version?

Tom,

Thanks for your answer. I cannot afford Image Print but would like to know how the results are using it on the 4000 printer in B&W printing with all Ultra Chrome inksets in colour settings mode.

Michel

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tom OConnell 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 11:44 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Enhanced Matte vs. Smooth Fineart



  Michael-

  UltraSmoothFineArt paper. I like it better than the other FA paper.

  I use Image Print and make the prints slightly warm which seems to 
  give the appearance of greater dmax.

  tom




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I¹m doing something wrong- on William Turner and PR, I¹m getting a Dmax of
~1.70-1.75 with 4 inks, but as soon as I add the toners, the Dmax goes down
to ~1.60-1.65.  I figured it might be that I was exceeding the ink-load of
the paper, so decreased overall ink-loads, but that had no effect.

I wonder if the toner goes down before or after the Black, and if that could
be the cause?

This has been consistent with every paper I¹ve tried.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Bill Morse
Digital Eye Editions
343 Medford St., Studio 2A
Somerville, MA 02145
(617) 429-3298



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Tom-
It¹s curious- for me, with QTR and VM inks in a 7000, EEM (and the other
Epson papers I¹ve tried) is consistently .1 to .15 less than PR or WT.
Don¹t know why...

Bill
> 
> 
>> >   ----- Original Message -----
>> >   From: Tom OConnell
>> > 
>> >   Nothing gets the measured dmax of EEM for me, but USFA looks
> nearly 
>> >   the same because it it is warmer and I move the IP tone slider up
> 10 
>> >   from neutral to add a bit more warmth.
>> > 
>> >   If you test with a densitometer, you will never get the same from
>> >   what I can tell.
>> > 
>> >   Tom O'Connell
>> > 
>> > 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Bill Morse 
<whm.lists@v...> wrote:
> Hi Tom-
> It¹s curious- for me, with QTR and VM inks in a 7000, EEM (and the 
other
> Epson papers I¹ve tried) is consistently .1 to .15 less than PR or 
WT.
> Don¹t know why...
> 
> Bill


Bill-

I just started trying QTR yesterday. In the past I've used FT and FTn 
and, more recently, Epson UCs on 2200 and 4000. The only paper I've 
ever seen with higher dmax than EEM of EAM is Velvet FA (the problems 
being huge amounts of chipping and flaking and limited sizes).

I'm now comparing QTR to Image Print output. I've only made a couple 
of prints but I'm impressed with QTR. The dead neutral seems perhaps 
more "pure" black (but "neutral" is a tricky concept). The dither 
looks (after a VERY quick inspection) somewhat different (not sure 
there is really a "better" in this).

IP has a different profile for each paper for at least 3 lighting 
conditions. I've settle on just using the DAYLIGHT one for everything 
but will be interested in seeing what QTR looks like agaist the IP 
prints in similar conditions.

Long answer to your question...sorry.

Have you tried adding a LITTLE warm tweak to your VM setting? Even if 
the desitometer doesn't prove it, that often seems to give the 
shadows more depth, at least to my eye.

cheers,

Tom O'Connell

Hi Tom,

Since you're using QTR, I assume you're printing B&W images. For IP, you 
should be using only those paper profiles with the word "gray" in them. The 
"Daylight" profile and others (ECWF2) are for color printing. If the Tint 
Picker isn't active, then you're not using the proper profile for printing 
grayscale. IP will print a grayscale image using a color profile, but you're 
sure to see color casts.

Alan Huntley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom OConnell" <tomoc@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:34 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Enhanced Matte vs. Smooth Fineart




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Bill Morse
<whm.lists@v...> wrote:
> Hi Tom-
> It\ufffds curious- for me, with QTR and VM inks in a 7000, EEM (and the
other
> Epson papers I\ufffdve tried) is consistently .1 to .15 less than PR or
WT.
> Don\ufffdt know why...
>
> Bill


Bill-

I just started trying QTR yesterday. In the past I've used FT and FTn
and, more recently, Epson UCs on 2200 and 4000. The only paper I've
ever seen with higher dmax than EEM of EAM is Velvet FA (the problems
being huge amounts of chipping and flaking and limited sizes).

I'm now comparing QTR to Image Print output. I've only made a couple
of prints but I'm impressed with QTR. The dead neutral seems perhaps
more "pure" black (but "neutral" is a tricky concept). The dither
looks (after a VERY quick inspection) somewhat different (not sure
there is really a "better" in this).

IP has a different profile for each paper for at least 3 lighting
conditions. I've settle on just using the DAYLIGHT one for everything
but will be interested in seeing what QTR looks like agaist the IP
prints in similar conditions.

Long answer to your question...sorry.

Have you tried adding a LITTLE warm tweak to your VM setting? Even if
the desitometer doesn't prove it, that often seems to give the
shadows more depth, at least to my eye.

cheers,

Tom O'Connell

I am considering replacing my SpectroCam with the Eye-One for QTR profiling.
Which software package do I need, and where is the best source for the
Eye-One?

Thanks,

Bill Morse
Digital Eye Editions
343 Medford St., Studio 2A
Somerville, MA 02145
(617) 429-3298



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You would use their software ie it comes with the Eye-One Photo device.

> From: Bill Morse <whm.lists@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:32:23 -0400
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Source for Eye-One?
> 
> 
> I am considering replacing my SpectroCam with the Eye-One for QTR profiling.
> Which software package do I need, and where is the best source for the
> Eye-One?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bill Morse
> Digital Eye Editions
> 343 Medford St., Studio 2A
> Somerville, MA 02145
> (617) 429-3298
>

I bought my eye-one photo package form Colormall:
http://www.colormall.com/category.asp?SID=1&Category_ID=69
You will also need the MeasureTool software module that is part of the  
ProfileMakerPro (4.15) software package download:
http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/support- 
download?prod=products_professional-cm&send=1
This is demo software, but the MeasureTool module is fully functional  
and essentially freeware.

On Wednesday, October 13, 2004, at 02:32  PM, Bill Morse wrote:

>
> I am considering replacing my SpectroCam with the Eye-One for QTR  
> profiling.
> Which software package do I need, and where is the best source for the
> Eye-One?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Morse
> Digital Eye Editions
> 343 Medford St., Studio 2A
> Somerville, MA 02145
> (617) 429-3298
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to  
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from  
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and  
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group  
> Owner and Moderators. See „Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines‰ in the  
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE „OWNER‰  
> AND „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE  
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE  
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  „OWNER‰ AND „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT  
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES),  
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,  
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF  
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD  
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER  
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Oct 13, 2004, at 11:32 AM, Bill Morse wrote:

> I am considering replacing my SpectroCam with the Eye-One for QTR 
> profiling.
>  Which software package do I need, and where is the best source for the
>  Eye-One?
>

I bought my EyeOne from colormall.com

James
>

On Oct 13, 2004, at 11:41 AM, Steve Kale wrote:

> You would use their software ie it comes with the Eye-One Photo device.

Not necessarily so.  I bought the EyeOne by itself to use with other 3p 
software.

James