Digital BW, The Print

Dear Group,

I'm sure this topic or question has been broached before but does 
anyone have a method or solution for rendering the dreaded pizza 
wheel tracks inert when using non Epson media for the Epson 2200 
printer? I've done some research on the web and have discovered 
information about how to deal with the exit roller tracking problem 
but nothing seems to come up in regard to the pizza wheels.

Thanks,

Don Bryant

Check this out Don:

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/2200wh.html

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:39:53 -0000, donbga <dstevenbryant@...> wrote:
> 
> Dear Group,
> 
> I'm sure this topic or question has been broached before but does 
> anyone have a method or solution for rendering the dreaded pizza 
> wheel tracks inert when using non Epson media for the Epson 2200 
> printer? I've done some research on the web and have discovered 
> information about how to deal with the exit roller tracking problem 
> but nothing seems to come up in regard to the pizza wheels.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Don Bryant
> 
>

Oh, sorry, I should have read more carefully, maybe you already found
that and are looking to solve a different problem.  If so, nevermind.

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:21:32 -0700, Richard Sintchak <rich815@...> wrote:
> Check this out Don:
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/2200wh.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:39:53 -0000, donbga <dstevenbryant@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Group,
> >
> > I'm sure this topic or question has been broached before but does
> > anyone have a method or solution for rendering the dreaded pizza
> > wheel tracks inert when using non Epson media for the Epson 2200
> > printer? I've done some research on the web and have discovered
> > information about how to deal with the exit roller tracking problem
> > but nothing seems to come up in regard to the pizza wheels.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Don Bryant
> >
> >
>

Richard,

> Oh, sorry, I should have read more carefully, maybe you already 
found
> that and are looking to solve a different problem.  If so, 
nevermind.
> 

Yes I've found the link about how to eliminate tracks caused by the 
ejection rollers but I also need to eliminate the pizza wheel tracks.

I'm trying to print digital inkjet negatives on Ultrafine Clear Film 
but unfortunately the substrate doesn't absorb the ink and dry before 
reaching the pizza wheels and ejection rollers.

Thanks,

Don Bryant

i have had the same problem, at the beginning, i used a home mdae tool
to lift the wheels just a bit, and then later i reduced the ink by 15%
and then reprofiles, and the problem has gone away


On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:28:49 -0000, donbga <dstevenbryant@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Richard,
> 
> > Oh, sorry, I should have read more carefully, maybe you already
> found
> > that and are looking to solve a different problem.  If so,
> nevermind.
> >
> 
> Yes I've found the link about how to eliminate tracks caused by the
> ejection rollers but I also need to eliminate the pizza wheel tracks.
> 
> I'm trying to print digital inkjet negatives on Ultrafine Clear Film
> but unfortunately the substrate doesn't absorb the ink and dry before
> reaching the pizza wheels and ejection rollers.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Don Bryant
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
  -------------------------------------
  regards, mehrdad

Here is something else to try, though the article refers to the Epson 1200:

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/pizza.html

Maris

donbga wrote:

> Richard,
> 
>> Oh, sorry, I should have read more carefully, maybe you already
> found
>> that and are looking to solve a different problem.  If so,
> nevermind.
>> 
> 
> Yes I've found the link about how to eliminate tracks caused by the
> ejection rollers but I also need to eliminate the pizza wheel tracks.
> 
> I'm trying to print digital inkjet negatives on Ultrafine Clear Film
> but unfortunately the substrate doesn't absorb the ink and dry before
> reaching the pizza wheels and ejection rollers.

> i have had the same problem, at the beginning, i used a home mdae 
tool
> to lift the wheels just a bit, and then later i reduced the ink by 
15%
> and then reprofiles, and the problem has gone away
> 
> 

Are you printing on Ultrafine Clear Film sold by Photowarehouse? Also 
how are you reducing ink by 15%

Thanks,

Don

don on the printdriver there is  an option for ink config (in advance
mode). if you reduce the ink, without a new profile with the lower
ink, everything comes out lighter. i wam using some other kind of
paper that does not dry fast


On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:19:39 -0000, donbga <dstevenbryant@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> > i have had the same problem, at the beginning, i used a home mdae
> tool
> > to lift the wheels just a bit, and then later i reduced the ink by
> 15%
> > and then reprofiles, and the problem has gone away
> >
> >
> 
> Are you printing on Ultrafine Clear Film sold by Photowarehouse? Also
> how are you reducing ink by 15%
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Don
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
  -------------------------------------
  regards, mehrdad

mehrdad,

> don on the printdriver there is  an option for ink config (in 
advance
> mode). if you reduce the ink, without a new profile with the lower
> ink, everything comes out lighter. i wam using some other kind of
> paper that does not dry fast
>

That's what I suspected but I thought I would ask.

Thanks for your help.

Don Bryant

Did you find a satisfactory solution?  For some reason my 2100 has just decided to leave 
pizza wheel marks when printing to Epson Premium Semigloss.  


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "donbga" <dstevenbryant@m...> 
wrote:

> 
> Dear Group,
> 
> I'm sure this topic or question has been broached before but does 
> anyone have a method or solution for rendering the dreaded pizza 
> wheel tracks inert when using non Epson media for the Epson 2200 
> printer? I've done some research on the web and have discovered 
> information about how to deal with the exit roller tracking problem 
> but nothing seems to come up in regard to the pizza wheels.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Don Bryant

> I'm sure this topic or question has been broached before but does 
> anyone have a method or solution for rendering the dreaded pizza 
> wheel tracks inert when using non Epson media for the Epson 2200 
> printer? 

As my many loyal fans (err - ahem) know, I like to experiment 
printing on all kinds of wacko materials using the flat feed feature 
of my 2200.  The only times I get pizza wheel marks on my prints is 
when the ink doesn't dry fast enough on the surface or when I neglect 
to tip the lad from Domino's with sufficient largesse.  While the 
latter is beyond the scope of this discussion, the former is usually 
addressed by selecting the correct ink (e.g. matte black -vs - photo 
black) for the paper, and by controlling the volume of ink.   Never 
use any more ink than you need to get a satisfactory black.  This 
varies tremendously with the medium.    Here's a good bad example of 
tracking:
http://studio-nelson.com/inkjet/ijimages/ccanv1.jpg

Here is a print that's visibly wet after 8 hours:
http://studio-nelson.com/inkjet/ijimages/ccanv3.jpg

. . . it was still wet after 24 hours, because it was printed 
directly onto Golden (brand) acrylic gesso.   What many denizens of 
the inkjet community may not realize is that inkjet ink does not dry 
merely because it's exposed to air;  it dries as part of a reaction 
with the physical and chemical properties of the paper, or more 
precisely, its coating.   That's why using the exact right amount of 
ink matters.

How do you explain this happening with the Epson driver and the selected
Epson media? (ie they should have set the ink limits for their papers at
least).  OK so maybe they are really useless and don't get it right.
But...my printer seems to have developed this problem very recently ie
today.  No problems before.  Problems now.  Epson driver and Epson Premium
Semigloss paper.  Seems odd.  I was wondering if the issue could be dirt
building up on the pizza wheels or something.....

> From: Peter Nelson <pnweb@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:21:03 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson 2200 Pizza Wheel Marks - How do I get rid of
> them?
> 
> 
> 
>> I'm sure this topic or question has been broached before but does
>> anyone have a method or solution for rendering the dreaded pizza
>> wheel tracks inert when using non Epson media for the Epson 2200
>> printer? 
> 
> As my many loyal fans (err - ahem) know, I like to experiment
> printing on all kinds of wacko materials using the flat feed feature
> of my 2200.  The only times I get pizza wheel marks on my prints is
> when the ink doesn't dry fast enough on the surface or when I neglect
> to tip the lad from Domino's with sufficient largesse.  While the
> latter is beyond the scope of this discussion, the former is usually
> addressed by selecting the correct ink (e.g. matte black -vs - photo
> black) for the paper, and by controlling the volume of ink.   Never
> use any more ink than you need to get a satisfactory black.  This
> varies tremendously with the medium.    Here's a good bad example of
> tracking:
> http://studio-nelson.com/inkjet/ijimages/ccanv1.jpg
> 
> Here is a print that's visibly wet after 8 hours:
> http://studio-nelson.com/inkjet/ijimages/ccanv3.jpg
> 
> . . . it was still wet after 24 hours, because it was printed
> directly onto Golden (brand) acrylic gesso.   What many denizens of
> the inkjet community may not realize is that inkjet ink does not dry
> merely because it's exposed to air;  it dries as part of a reaction
> with the physical and chemical properties of the paper, or more
> precisely, its coating.   That's why using the exact right amount of
> ink matters.    
> 
>

Peter,
> addressed by selecting the correct ink (e.g. matte black -vs - 
photo 
> black) for the paper, and by controlling the volume of ink.   Never 
> use any more ink than you need to get a satisfactory black.  This 
> varies tremendously with the medium.    

You are correct in your summation here. The bottom line for me is 
that I am attempting to use a transparency material (Ultrafine Clear 
Film - http://store.ultrafineonline.com/ulclfitr11x1.html ) that 
wasn't designed specifically for use with high ink loads and 
Ultrachrome Inks. These negatives would be used to make silver 
gelatin and alternative process prints. 

The motivation for using this product is strictly driven by economics 
in my own case. The primary product recognized as best, Pictorico OHP 
is much more expensive. In additon to that having an alternative 
material to utilize may help spur competion and prevent the total 
dependence upon one supplier, which recently has proven to be 
unreliable.

Agfa SelectJet film would be a viable alternative, but is not 
marketed in the US and most likely would be just as expensive. 

> may not realize is that inkjet ink does not dry 
> merely because it's exposed to air;  it dries as part of a reaction 
> with the physical and chemical properties of the paper, or more 
> precisely, its coating.   That's why using the exact right amount 
of 
> ink matters.

Thanks for reiterating that point, but it isn't clear to me why some 
of Epsons own products exhibit the pizza wheel effect. 

Of course the pizzeria wheel marks are absent when using products 
that are printed with wide bodied printers designed to transport 
media with a vacuum system. Switching to these machines may be the 
long term solution.

As for Steve's question, yes I have found a way to avoid the problem, 
change media settings if possible to reduce the ink load. Anothe 
method is to install a spring on the front of the printer to lift the 
P. rollers slightly so they just barely clear the media. You can do 
this without permanently modifying the printer but must be done 
carefully to insure that the print head can still maintain laterial 
movement and normal operation. I place the spring on your left side 
of the exit throat of the printer. You may need to place sone shims 
on the right side to equalize the lift so all rollers are lifted.

Thanks,

Don Bryant