Digital BW, The Print

Hi, i'm newbie to this group. and in need of some advice:

i am a professional photographer and 90% of my business is wedding 
photography. Currently i send out all my digital files to lab to 
print my photos for my client albums.

i produce albums with 10x10 prints and i want to be able to produce 
all my prints at home. i have a cold laminator that i use to laminate 
all my photos in matte finish so archival issues and durability is 
not a problem with me.

I currently have a Canon i9100  with CFS from media street and love 
it for color but find it lacking for BW. I would like to print all my 
own prints for my clients and am looking for a system for BW to try 
out.

I am leaning towards a 1160 or 1280 with MIS ink over Piezo ink 
because of price. i would like to use a cartridge system and refill 
ink with MIS bottles. Is this possible? I know you can buy a chip 
resetter for ink refill carts. I heard the 1160 does not have a chip, 
is this correct?

Is the print quality and speed much better from the 1280 verse 1160?
btw, i am use to ripping out 13x19s from i9100 in three minutes or 
8x10s in about a minute.

In large areas of graduation, do you get banding from 1160 because of 
lower resolution?

Does any one have an 1280 or 1160 that they want to sell?


Thanks,

Scott

www.pbase.com/scottrlim
www.scottrobertgallery.com

I am very happy with the quality from my 1160 and with Paul's help my curves issue has 
been solved. I use MIS CIF system.

lara

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Robert Photography" 
<Scott@S...> wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi, i'm newbie to this group. and in need of some advice:
> 
> i am a professional photographer and 90% of my business is wedding 
> photography. Currently i send out all my digital files to lab to 
> print my photos for my client albums.
> 
> i produce albums with 10x10 prints and i want to be able to produce 
> all my prints at home. i have a cold laminator that i use to laminate 
> all my photos in matte finish so archival issues and durability is 
> not a problem with me.
> 
> I currently have a Canon i9100  with CFS from media street and love 
> it for color but find it lacking for BW. I would like to print all my 
> own prints for my clients and am looking for a system for BW to try 
> out.
> 
> I am leaning towards a 1160 or 1280 with MIS ink over Piezo ink 
> because of price. i would like to use a cartridge system and refill 
> ink with MIS bottles. Is this possible? I know you can buy a chip 
> resetter for ink refill carts. I heard the 1160 does not have a chip, 
> is this correct?
> 
> Is the print quality and speed much better from the 1280 verse 1160?
> btw, i am use to ripping out 13x19s from i9100 in three minutes or 
> 8x10s in about a minute.
> 
> In large areas of graduation, do you get banding from 1160 because of 
> lower resolution?
> 
> Does any one have an 1280 or 1160 that they want to sell?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Scott
> 
> www.pbase.com/scottrlim
> www.scottrobertgallery.com

Hi Scott;
Let me put in my two cents'worth:

> I am leaning towards a 1160 or 1280 with MIS ink over Piezo ink 
> because of price. i would like to use a cartridge system and 
refill 
> ink with MIS bottles. Is this possible? I know you can buy a chip 
> resetter for ink refill carts. I heard the 1160 does not have a 
chip, 
> is this correct?

I've owned 4 1280's in 3 years, and used the first 2 with MIS inks, 
refilling the carts and ressetting the chips. The latter is easy, 
the former is a royal pain in the butt. Foam and air bubbles in the 
carts are responsible for a huge percentage of what people often 
mistake as clogs. It is a persistent problem, and the carts don't 
last nearly long enough. If you go with a 1280, by or build a CIS-
the parts are available from MIS, it's not rocket science as they 
say.
The 1160s work very well, maybe even better and cheaper than the 
1280s but they are getting old, and support for them is waning. You 
can't expect Paul Roark or Roy Harrington to continue supporting 
them forever, and a generation or two of ink development may make 
them completely obsolete. Even so, if you can find one in relatively 
good shape, it's not a bad way to go, and not a huge loss if you 
can't use it in a year or two.
> 
> Is the print quality and speed much better from the 1280 verse 
1160?

Not for the Roark workflow, but either way you can forget about 3 
minute 8x10s. The 1280 wil make Black Only printing possible 
however, because of the finer droplet and higher max dither. BTW, my 
own experience has been that the earlier 1280s, the beige flavor, 
are better than the newer black&silver jobs. I have never been able 
to get banding-free prints out of either newer 1280s I've owned. I 
would be curious to hear of other list members' experience in this 
regard.
> btw, i am use to ripping out 13x19s from i9100 in three minutes or 
> 8x10s in about a minute.
> 
> In large areas of graduation, do you get banding from 1160 because 
of 
> lower resolution?

Not that I've seen or heard, but others may know better.
> 
> Does any one have an 1280 or 1160 that they want to sell?

Well, yes, but as I siad above, I've never been able to get banding-
free prints out of it-ya want it anyway, I'll make you a good price! 
(G)

Steven Karafyllakis

http://www.stevekphoto.com

> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Scott
> 
> www.pbase.com/scottrlim
> www.scottrobertgallery.com

steve, thanks for your informative email. not sure the 1280 has high enough res to keep the banding down, that is why i had to upgrade from the canon s9000 to the i9100 for higher res.
 
not sure what i want to do now. someone suggested getting a professional profile for my i9100. not sure if the results would be good enough for BW.
 
thanks for the input!
 
scott

Steven Karafyllakis <steve@...> wrote:

Hi Scott;
Let me put in my two cents'worth:

> I am leaning towards a 1160 or 1280 with MIS ink over Piezo ink 
> because of price. i would like to use a cartridge system and 
refill 
> ink with MIS bottles. Is this possible? I know you can buy a chip 
> resetter for ink refill carts. I heard the 1160 does not have a 
chip, 
> is this correct?

I've owned 4 1280's in 3 years, and used the first 2 with MIS inks, 
refilling the carts and ressetting the chips. The latter is easy, 
the former is a royal pain in the butt. Foam and air bubbles in the 
carts are responsible for a huge percentage of what people often 
mistake as clogs. It is a persistent problem, and the carts don't 
last nearly long enough. If you go with a 1280, by or build a CIS-
the parts are available from MIS, it's not rocket science as they 
say.
The 1160s work very well, maybe even better and cheaper than the 
1280s but they are getting old, and support for them is waning. You 
can't expect Paul Roark or Roy Harrington to continue supporting 
them forever, and a generation or two of ink development may make 
them completely obsolete. Even so, if you can find one in relatively 
good shape, it's not a bad way to go, and not a huge loss if you 
can't use it in a year or two.
> 
> Is the print quality and speed much better from the 1280 verse 
1160?

Not for the Roark workflow, but either way you can forget about 3 
minute 8x10s. The 1280 wil make Black Only printing possible 
however, because of the finer droplet and higher max dither. BTW, my 
own experience has been that the earlier 1280s, the beige flavor, 
are better than the newer black&silver jobs. I have never been able 
to get banding-free prints out of either newer 1280s I've owned. I 
would be curious to hear of other list members' experience in this 
regard.
> btw, i am use to ripping out 13x19s from i9100 in three minutes or 
> 8x10s in about a minute.
> 
> In large areas of graduation, do you get banding from 1160 because 
of 
> lower resolution?

Not that I've seen or heard, but others may know better.
> 
> Does any one have an 1280 or 1160 that they want to sell?

Well, yes, but as I siad above, I've never been able to get banding-
free prints out of it-ya want it anyway, I'll make you a good price! 
(G)

Steven Karafyllakis

http://www.stevekphoto.com


> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Scott
> 
> www.pbase.com/scottrlim
> www.scottrobertgallery.com





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you guys are having regular banding issues with the 1280 you need to spend some time 
aligning your heads. Make sure you have high-speed off. This is one of the biggest 
mistakes with people complaing about banding on any Epson printer. Also, always do a 
nozzle check before doing a job. A lot of time what people percieve as banding is really a 
simi-clogged nozzle in one of the channels.

I still have a 1270 and a 1200, both of which are a bit less fine than the 1280, are more 
than 5 years old, and I have never had any banding problem with these printers or the 
1280. Head alignment is essential. These printers of mine utilize carbon pigment inks as 
well as the original Epson 1270 formula.

If your heads are clean and correctly alligned and you are printing at at least 1440 then 
the only other things to look at is the correctness of  your profile or curve and the way 
your driver is set up for media type, etc. An incorrect curve or profile can create strange 
distributions of tonal value resembling banding or solizarization.

john