Digital BW, The Print

Sorry, this mail has nearly nothing to do with the truth. 
Results of HP 30 are excellent, printer has calibration on board, despite its 
having only one black I easily obtain neutral BW Prints - however, it is a 
dye printer. The limited paper choice already mentioned is however a real 
handicap. The outstanding longevity depends on the use of swellable polymer papers.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I can second the previous message: results from my 130 are 
consistently excellent; it took only 2 minor tweaks in the driver    
(in magenta and in saturation)  to make my prints match the display.  
The prints are, to my eyes, somewhat more attractive than those from 
my 2200.  As previously pointed out, limited paper choice is a 
problem.  

A real problem on these lists is the eagerness of many to jump in 
with "authoritative" recommendations which turn out to have little or 
no basis in first-hand knowledge.  (If one had actually installed ink 
in a 130 he would know that it has more than 4 cartridges)

eric perkins 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, AWStolzing@a... 
wrote:
> Sorry, this mail has nearly nothing to do with the truth. 
> Results of HP 30 are excellent, printer has calibration on board, 
despite its 
> having only one black I easily obtain neutral BW Prints - however, 
it is a 
> dye printer. The limited paper choice already mentioned is however 
a real 
> handicap. The outstanding longevity depends on the use of swellable 
polymer papers.

> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm glad someone corrected the mis-information (see quote below). I have also been 
looking at the HP Designjet 30 and 130, and comparing them to the new small (8.5x11) 
photo printer the HP 8450. It is like comparing apples to oranges, but both serve some of 
my needs and in different ways. HP sent me info about four of their printers via email and I 
will post that message at the end of this one. It is interesting. My need for a printer might 
lead me to buying two printers, rather than one, because I am looking at three types of 
printing (1) For my graphic design business - mockups for clients and simulation of print 
conditions on press (2) printing color photos (3) printing black and white photos. I have 
not made a decision, but this info might be helpful to others here. See end of this message 
for HP's info.... -Lynn

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "eric perkins" 
<turnerperkins@v...> wrote:
problem.  
> 
> A real problem on these lists is the eagerness of many to jump in 
> with "authoritative" recommendations which turn out to have little or 
> no basis in first-hand knowledge.  (If one had actually installed ink 
> in a 130 he would know that it has more than 4 cartridges)
> 
> eric perkins 

FROM HP (I told them I would be mentioning this reply on discussion groups)

Thank you for contacting Hewlett-Packard.

The HP DesignJet 30 and the HP DesignJet 130 have modular ink delivery 
systems (separate cartridges for each color).  None of the inks is
specifically designed for black and white photos.  There are no inks
available tailored for black and white photo printing for these
printers.  The HP DesignJet 30 and the HP Designjet 130 multi-format
printing systems create fade-resistant, photo-quality images with
consistent colors for professional photos, prints and proofs.

HP DesignJet printers are targeted toward professional photographers who
need to print their portfolios, output high quality color proofs or sell
prints with excellent lightfastness and durability, and proofing
professionals, such as publishers, commercial printers and pre-press
houses, who need a low-cost digital printing solution.

The HP PhotoSmart 8450 Series printer is designed for experienced
digital camera users who want a versatile photo printer with exceptional
print quality for high-quality digital borderless prints.

RIP (Raster Image Processor) is a hardware and/or software that convert
an image for display or printing.  RIPs are designed to rasterize a
specific type of data, such as PostScript, vector graphics images, line
drawings, other raster data, and text into raster image bitmaps.  You
would use RIP if the documents you print are highly complex.  RIP
assists the printer in processing the image more efficiently, which
speeds up the printing process.

Rasterization is accomplished by converting vector graphics, line
drawings, font outlines, and other raster data to equivalent images
composed of the matrix of pixels (bitmap) that will be displayed or
printed.

Software RIP performs the rasterization process.  It uses your PC's
processor, hard disk, and RAM to perform the rasterization and then
sends the data to the printing device.

Internal RIP is usually contained in a devices' internal formatter
board.  It interprets and uses languages such as HPGL/2, RTL, or
PostScript for the raster process.

Deciding which RIP you need depends on how you want the rasterization to
be performed:  either on you PC or on the printer.

At this time the HP PhotoSmart 8450 supports media up to 8.5" x 14".
Hewlett-Packard is always looking to improve and expand our product
line; however, as a Hewlett-Packard representative, I am unable to
provide information on products that may or may not be under
development.  I apologize for any inconvenience.

The HP DeskJet 9650 is the closest wide-format printer to the HP
PhotoSmart 8450.  The HP DeskJet 9650 features:

- Results that look like original photos with HP's enhanced Color
Layering Technology from - PhotoREt III and PhotoREt IV
- Prints anything from 4" x 6" cards to 13" x 19" posters
- Handles all types of media
- Offers a wide variety of print options
- Parallel, USB, and USB-Macintosh connectivity

PhotoREt III is a Hewlett-Packard developed technology that uses a 3-ink
photo cartridge with multi-dye loading (MDL) techniques to place 29 ink
drops per single pixel.  Each drop measures 5 picoliters in size.  The 
small size of ink dots is more difficult for the eye to detect so the
image has the appearance of a continuous tone.  HP DesignJet printers
feature Pantone Color system.  A color matching system formulated to
give consistent reproducible colors. The color standard was developed by
the Pantone Company. Each Pantone color has a number assigned that
denotes that exact color and the formula to create it.  To accurately
print a Pantone color, your device, software, and media must all be
Pantone certified.

PhotoREt IV is an improvement of PhotoREt III.  PhotoREt IV also uses a
3-ink photo cartridge with multi-dye loading (MDL) techniques to place 
up to 32 ink drops per single pixel.  Each drop measures 4 to 5
picoliters in size.  In addition, PhotoREt IV uses six-ink color
printing.

Six-ink color printing uses 1 standard tri-color cartridge and 1 photo 
cartridge (rather than 1 standard tri-color and 1 standard black
cartridge).  The photo cartridge uses shades of cyan and magenta that
are lighter than standard ink cartridges.  The photo cartridge also
contains black ink.  The combination of lighter colors plus finer dots 
allows the printer to create clearer, more detailed pictures that
include colors that can't be created from the standard cartridge colors.
PhotoREt IV with six-ink color printing provides 350 times the primary 
colors of PhotoREt III.

The HP PhotoSmart 8450 uses PhotoREt Pro technology.  PhotoREt Pro is an
improvement of PhotoREt IV.  PhotoREt Pro uses a 3-ink photo cartridge 
with multi-dye loading (MDL) techniques to place up to 32 ink drops per
single pixel.  Each drop measures 4 to 5 picoliters in size.  In
addition, PhotoREt Pro uses eight-ink color printing.

Eight-ink color printing uses 1 standard tri-color cartridge, 1 photo
cartridge, and 1 gray photo cartridge, rather than 1 standard tri-color
and 1 standard black cartridge.  The photo cartridge uses shades of cyan
and magenta that are lighter than standard ink cartridges.  The photo
cartridge also contains black ink.  The combination of lighter colors
plus finer dots allows the printer to create clearer, more detailed
pictures that include colors that can't be created from the standard
cartridge colors.  PhotoREt Pro with eight-ink color printing provides 
350 times the primary colors of PhotoREt IV.

The main difference between the HP PhotoSmart 8450 and the HP DeskJet
9650 is the 8-ink capability of the HP PhotoSmart 8450 versus the 6-ink
capability of the HP DeskJet 9650.

You can find more information about the HP DesignJet 30 (product number
C7790D) by logging on at:



http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&ProductLine
Id=503&FamilyId=1831&BaseId=11473&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=

You can find more information about the HP DesignJet 130 (product number
C7791C) at:



http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&ProductLine
Id=503&FamilyId=1832&BaseId=11467&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=

You can find more information about the HP DeskJet 9650 (product number
C8137A) at:



http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&ProductLine
Id=503&FamilyId=1661&BaseId=9608&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=

You can find more information about the HP PhotoSmart 8450 (product
number Q3388A) at:



http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&ProductLine
Id=493&FamilyId=1336&BaseId=12338&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=

The web sites above were sent out with no spaces in the address.  They 
will sometimes arrive with spaces where they should not be, due to the 
way the email sends.  You may need to copy the web site address, line by
line, into your computer web address window and remove the spaces.  I
apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

You may purchase these products, or other products, directly from
Hewlett-Packard, at the HP Small & Medium Business Sales Center.  You
can log on at:

http://www.smb.compaq.com

You may also call 1-800-888-9909.

To locate a Hewlett-Packard authorized reseller(s) in your area, please
visit our web site at:

http://hp.via.infonow.net/locator/us_partner/index.jsp

Please note that printer cables are not typically included in the box. 
Please be sure to check with your place of purchase for a cable
recommendation based on your interface requirements.

I hope I have thoroughly answered all of your presales questions.
Please reply to this message if we can be of further assistance.

For your convenience, you can also call our Presales Department at
1-800-752-0900 (6:30am - 6:30pm, Mon-Fri, and 8am - 5pm Sat, Mountain
Time).  Our Hewlett-Packard representatives are trained professionals
who can help you decide on the right HP product for you.

Once again, thank you for your interest in Hewlett-Packard products.  We
value your business!


Sincerely,

Amy Roberts
Representative
Hewlett-Packard

Copyright Hewlett-Packard Co. 1999
NOTE:  Our advice is strictly limited to the question(s) asked and is
based on the information provided to us.  Hewlett-Packard shall not be 
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Hi Steve,

The HP Designjet 30/130 both use dyes. However, according to Wilhelm when used on HP Premium Plus paper (or any other encapsulating type paper like Ilford Smooth Pearl) the print life expectancy is something like 73 years.

Are you sure about it being a 4-ink printer. The DJ30 I saw at a recent PS seminar definitely had more than 4 inks. I've looked into the DJ130 a little and I thought the only main difference between versions of this printer is whether you got a roll feeder and the optional network card or not.

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: "Steven Karafyllakis" <steve@...>
> Date: 2004/11/04 Thu PM 04:24:13 EST
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Hewlett packard HP 130
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that in a Mac catalogue also; it does sound good, but if 
> you check carefully you'll see the 1300 dollar version is a 4-ink 
> printer- the 6-inker costs as much as a factory refurbed 7600. The 
> real problem though is getting B&W support. None of the inexpensive 
> methods will support that printer, so you'll have to spend another 
> $1500-plus for a RIP and maybe a densitometer, and of course the 
> time involved, to get good B&W out of it. Not to mention the fade 
> issue- does the printer use pigments or dyes? 
> 
> Steve Karafyllakis
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, dsmall9917@a... 
> wrote:
> > Does anyone have or seen user reviews on HPs new 24" wide printer? 
> It sells  
> > for about $1300. Wonder how it preforms,especially for B&W. It 
> takes up a  lot 
> > less space than the Epson 4000 and has 7" wider paper. Just 
> concerned about  
> > the if it sounds too good to be true saying.
> > Dave
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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