Digital BW, The Print

Are you using hispeed (bidirectional) in the driver? That makes head 
alignment much more critical - I never use it. What resolution are you 
using? 2880 with my 1290 has no banding, whereas with 1440 I can often see 
some. What inks are you using? Many have said that the best 'cleaning' inks 
are the original Epson inkcarts - they rarely clog unless left unused for 
months.

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "rring_foto" <rring_foto@...>



I have had my 1280 for 2 years and have been very happy with its B&W
and color prints.  However, recently I have had serious banding
problems.  I have realigned the heads (without any effect).  Nozzle
checks do Not ensure a print without bands. Basically I have to
clean the heads 3 or 4 times before printing and then maybe I can
get through an entire print without the banding return.  I have
replaced the ink carts - no difference.

Does anyone have any experience with this?  Will using cleaning
cartridges from MIS fix this problem?

He's right. The number one reason for bading is usally when people try to use bi-
directional printing with the high-speed on, then double check  head allignment, if not 
that it could be partially clogged heads which could be resolved with the cleaning carts.

You should also try another driver setting by changing either the profile or the media type 
setting. That is worth trying also. But if you have had good results with a particular profile 
it wouldn't be that.

john




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Frost" <bob@f...> wrote:

> Are you using hispeed (bidirectional) in the driver? That makes head 
> alignment much more critical - I never use it. What resolution are you 
> using? 2880 with my 1290 has no banding, whereas with 1440 I can often see 
> some. What inks are you using? Many have said that the best 'cleaning' inks 
> are the original Epson inkcarts - they rarely clog unless left unused for 
> months.
> 
> Bob Frost.
>

Both of these suggestions are right-most of the time. On the other 
hand, as I mentioned in a previous thread, I've owned four 1280s and 
while the older beige ones performed flawlessly until I screwed them 
up, the two newer ones (the black & silver 1280S) have never had 
anything but dyes in them, and have NEVER given me banding free 
printing no matter what I do. I suspect the rod that the head 
travels on was not aligned properly, or the feed rate is wrong. It 
is likely that simple wear can produce a similar situation or other 
problems that can't be fixed by aligning. Sorry to be a pessimist, 
but it may be that after 3-4 years the old beast needs an overhaul 
or replacement. These days the cost is about the same what with 
rebates etc. However, I for one can't reccomend replacing it with a 
1280S- as I said, my experience with them has been very frustrating. 
The 2200 is better suited for printing with pigments, and there 
should be a replacement for the 1280 in the not-to-distant future- 
after all, its been around for 3+ years now?


Steve Karafyllakis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> 
> He's right. The number one reason for bading is usally when people 
try to use bi-
> directional printing with the high-speed on, then double check  
head allignment, if not 
> that it could be partially clogged heads which could be resolved 
with the cleaning carts.
> 
> You should also try another driver setting by changing either the 
profile or the media type 
> setting. That is worth trying also. But if you have had good 
results with a particular profile 
> it wouldn't be that.
> 
> john
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Frost" 
<bob@f...> wrote:
> > Are you using hispeed (bidirectional) in the driver? That makes 
head 
> > alignment much more critical - I never use it. What resolution 
are you 
> > using? 2880 with my 1290 has no banding, whereas with 1440 I can 
often see 
> > some. What inks are you using? Many have said that the 
best 'cleaning' inks 
> > are the original Epson inkcarts - they rarely clog unless left 
unused for 

> > months.
> > 
> > Bob Frost.
> >

Banding is weird.....that is why i gave up BO on my 1280. I could live 
with the dots, but not if they were in obvious little rows. If the 
image was very broken up, with not a lot of areas of a constant shade, 
it was ok. No amount of 2880, alignments or anything could get the 
subtle lines out of the mid/dark areas. Nobody ever mentions this when 
they talk about BO on a 1280. Why is that? I have seen other peoples BO 
prints and they have the little lines too. For me that makes BO not 
usable, and believe me, I am no connoisseur. On the other hand, UT2 
inks have absolutley zero banding at 1440. I was just trying to get BO 
to work again because there seems to be some problem getting UT2 inks 
from MIS, so i have only a little left, and MIS says it might be a 
while before thay ship more, so I thought since I have a bunch of ebony 
here, maybe I could try it again. Nope. little lines just like before. 
Anyone else have this frustration? Do other people just live with it? 
Or do they only use BO on images that hide the problem? Thanks, DM

OK, perhaps I shouldn't beat a dead horse here, but I have to ask: 
all these 1280s producing banding in BO mode, are they the newer 
1280S-the black & silver ones? I did BO with my older beige 1280s 
and had no banding. With the newer ones (BOTH of them the banding is 
really bad in BO and though not visible to the naked eye with color, 
still there. I'm firmly convinced that this is a 1280S problem, not 
a BO or any other ink/workflow issue. I would love to take a poll 
here and see how many others are having banding problems with the 
1280S that they can't get rid of - any interest?

Steven Karafyllakis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Douglas 
Meeuwsen <lipshurt@m...> wrote:
> Banding is weird.....that is why i gave up BO on my 1280. I could 
live 
> with the dots, but not if they were in obvious little rows. If the 
> image was very broken up, with not a lot of areas of a constant 
shade, 
> it was ok. No amount of 2880, alignments or anything could get the 
> subtle lines out of the mid/dark areas. Nobody ever mentions this 
when 
> they talk about BO on a 1280. Why is that? I have seen other 
peoples BO 
> prints and they have the little lines too. For me that makes BO 
not 
> usable, and believe me, I am no connoisseur. On the other hand, 
UT2 
> inks have absolutley zero banding at 1440. I was just trying to 
get BO 
> to work again because there seems to be some problem getting UT2 
inks 
> from MIS, so i have only a little left, and MIS says it might be a 
> while before thay ship more, so I thought since I have a bunch of 
ebony 
> here, maybe I could try it again. Nope. little lines just like 
before. 
> Anyone else have this frustration? Do other people just live with 
it? 
> Or do they only use BO on images that hide the problem? Thanks, DM

well mine is a silver one, but i swear it's got no banding at all with 
any paper using UT2 inks, just Black only mode. I believe that clayton 
jones refers to this as a dithering pattern....whatever you call it, it 
looks like subltle lines or stripes in the dark midtones.
On Nov 6, 2004, at 11:41 AM, Steven Karafyllakis wrote:

>
>  OK, perhaps I shouldn't beat a dead horse here, but I have to ask:
>  all these 1280s producing banding in BO mode, are they the newer
>  1280S-the black & silver ones? ..... I would love to take a poll
>  here and see how many others are having banding problems with the
>  1280S that they can't get rid of - any interest?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>well mine is a silver one, but i swear it's got no banding at all
>with any paper using UT2 inks, just Black only mode. I believe that
>clayton jones refers to this as a dithering pattern....whatever you 
>call it, it looks like subltle lines or stripes in the dark midtones.

I call it dither banding (as opposed to "micro banding" which lots of
people use when they refer to the more distinct banding caused by
clogged nozzles).  I've seen lots of prints, from just about every
system/technique there is, and not having _any_ dither banding was the
exception, not the rule.  Most prints have at least some, from a
tiny bit visible only with a loupe to very bad, visible by eye.  And I
never got any sense that any one printer or ink/system was any better
or worse than any other.

I call it dither banding because it usually appears only in certain
(usually darker) zones (like Zone III) and not others.  This would
indicate that the driver's dither pattern for those zones is causing
it. 

On my 2200 I've found that head alignment can reduce it noticeably,
but not in a way you'd expect.  Normally the head alignment utility
wants one of the central vertical lines to produce the best alignment.
I experimented once, trying smaller and smaller numbers, and found it
got better (reduced DB) as I got lower.  I went all the way down to #2
and got the best results, and I have left it there.  It consistantly
makes excellent prints (all at 2880).  There is some DB, but it's
minimal and requires a loupe to see it.  And I've also found no
difference in hi/lo speed, so I keep Hi Speed checked all the time.

I'm currently experimenting with UT7/2200/2880/HiSpeed and am getting
only the tiniest amount of DB, around ZONES V and VI.

I'd love to find a way to totally eliminate it, but it seems to be an
elusive creature.  Nobody seems to know exactly what causes it, so
these are all just theories.  The only thing I know for certain is
that on my 2200, head alignment can make a difference.  That's my
experience, FWIW.

If you're getting no DB at all with 1280/UT2 then count your
blessings.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Hi Clayton,

I do not have any with my 890/UT2....but I have used only one type of paper ; and I am wondering if the paper isn't playing a role here as well. Have you any research on this side ?

Something else reading the different post here I notice that many MIS users meet cloging nozzles problem. I guess it should be the same with all pigment inks if you don't print every day. So I would like to make one small suggestion. When you know you aren't going to print for while, load cleaning carts and run a few nozzle check and print tests and keep these carts in place until next printing session.

  .............
  If you're getting no DB at all with 1280/UT2 then count your
  blessings.


  Regards,
  Clayton




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve, after happily printing BO in my beige 1280, I finally had to
replace it with a sliver one. I can tell no difference. 

Possibly Epson's production tolerances are loose enough so there are
"good ones" and "bad ones" as Jon Cone use to say about the 1160's. I
was never sure how correct Jon was though. 

Bob Michaels

 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steven
Karafyllakis" <steve@s...> wrote:

> 
> OK, perhaps I shouldn't beat a dead horse here, but I have to ask: 
> all these 1280s producing banding in BO mode, are they the newer 
> 1280S-the black & silver ones? I did BO with my older beige 1280s 
> and had no banding. With the newer ones (BOTH of them the banding is 
> really bad in BO and though not visible to the naked eye with color, 
> still there. I'm firmly convinced that this is a 1280S problem, not 
> a BO or any other ink/workflow issue. I would love to take a poll 
> here and see how many others are having banding problems with the 
> 1280S that they can't get rid of - any interest?
> 
> Steven Karafyllakis
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Douglas 
> Meeuwsen <lipshurt@m...> wrote:
> > Banding is weird.....that is why i gave up BO on my 1280. I could 
> live 
> > with the dots, but not if they were in obvious little rows. If the 
> > image was very broken up, with not a lot of areas of a constant 
> shade, 
> > it was ok. No amount of 2880, alignments or anything could get the 
> > subtle lines out of the mid/dark areas. Nobody ever mentions this 
> when 
> > they talk about BO on a 1280. Why is that? I have seen other 
> peoples BO 
> > prints and they have the little lines too. For me that makes BO 
> not 
> > usable, and believe me, I am no connoisseur. On the other hand, 
> UT2 
> > inks have absolutley zero banding at 1440. I was just trying to 
> get BO 
> > to work again because there seems to be some problem getting UT2 
> inks 
> > from MIS, so i have only a little left, and MIS says it might be a 
> > while before thay ship more, so I thought since I have a bunch of 
> ebony 
> > here, maybe I could try it again. Nope. little lines just like 
> before. 
> > Anyone else have this frustration? Do other people just live with 
> it? 
> > Or do they only use BO on images that hide the problem? Thanks, DM

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Michaels" 
<bob@b...> wrote:
> 
> Steve, after happily printing BO in my beige 1280, I finally had to
> replace it with a sliver one. I can tell no difference. 
> 
> Possibly Epson's production tolerances are loose enough so there 
are
> "good ones" and "bad ones" as Jon Cone use to say about the 
1160's. I
> was never sure how correct Jon was though. 
> 
> Bob Michaels
> 
Bob;
I suppose I just got unlucky getting two bad ones in a row. I sent 
the first one back because the problem was REALLY bad, and the 
replacement they sent has the same problem. At least it isn't 
pronounced enough to see without a loupe, but it does keep me from 
trying digital negs with it. I think my next machine is going to be 
non-Epson, however. I'm getting very interested in those HP dyes 
that Wilhelm is getting 70+ years out of. I wonder if they're 
available in bulk? I wonder if Epson is working on something similar?


Steve Karafyllakis


http://www.stevekphoto.com