Digital BW, The Print

People are starting to buy my 13x19 prints for $200 to $250 a pop with
alarming regularity. This is good.

What is bad is that I think my prints that look pretty good now could
probably look a lot better if I was using better tools. Problem one is
that all the prints come out much lighter than they look on the
monitor. I had the same issue with my old 1280. I compensate by
darkening the images prior to printing.

I have a 2200 and a 1280 (new but still in the box). I'm using stock
epson inks. I'm using Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper.

I have no printer or monitor calibration software.

My questions..

Should I consider the printfix bundle that includes the Spyder2pro for
$400 or $500

Should I use the Premium luster instead of the glossy or would you
suggest other papers?

I'd like to try canvas paper. Is there one that works with the pigment
inks that looks good and lasts?

BRONZING BRONZING BRONZING!!!! The 2200 hundred prints look great but
only straight on. The bronzing is horrible. Is there a fix for this?

In addition to the product suggestions themselves any tips on best
pricing sites would also be much appreciated. Atlex is one but they
don't seem to have canvas paper.

Many thanks,

Tim

Tim,

We have an excellent line of papers including a great canvas.  Contact me
offline or visit www.adventurecamphoto.com

Having a color management system will help you a lot and would recommend the
Colorvision system.

Changing papers can help your bronzing situation, also a coating like
Lyson's PrintGuard should help as well.


Michael J. Pach
Owner
AdventureCam Photo
Proof Line Ink Jet Paper & Media
Authorized Epson & Lyson Dealer
719-260-6637
email@...
www.adventurecamphoto.com


Should I consider the printfix bundle that includes the Spyder2pro for

$400 or $500

Should I use the Premium luster instead of the glossy or would you

suggest other papers?

I'd like to try canvas paper. Is there one that works with the pigment

inks that looks good and lasts?

BRONZING BRONZING BRONZING!!!! The 2200 hundred prints look great but

only straight on. The bronzing is horrible. Is there a fix for this?

In addition to the product suggestions themselves any tips on best

pricing sites would also be much appreciated. Atlex is one but they

don't seem to have canvas paper.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> From: Tim Timmermans [mailto:zenphoto7@...]
>
> I have a 2200 and a 1280 (new but still in the box). I'm using stock
> epson inks. I'm using Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper.
>
> I have no printer or monitor calibration software.
>
> My questions..
>
> Should I consider the printfix bundle that includes the Spyder2pro for
> $400 or $500

I don't think so. The stock Epson profiles are quite good, at least the
newer ones that come in different versions for 1440 and 2880. You won't
outdo these without much more expensive tools than PrintFix. As to monitor
calibration, that's most important for color work, so you can probably get
away without it if you're using Adobe Gamma on a CRT.

> Should I use the Premium luster instead of the glossy or would you
> suggest other papers?

The bronzing is a little less obvious with the textured papers, and you also
get fewer coherent reflections from lights in the room. Personally, I prefer
Premium Semigloss, because it looks basically the same as Premium Luster but
with a finer texture.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

>>Should I consider the printfix bundle that includes the Spyder2pro for
>>$400 or $500

I would not get PrintFix, the Epson profiles are as good or better, but
there is no reason
not to have great monitor callibration since Colorvision's Spyder with
PhotoCAL
is $145 at B&H Photo and other places. The new Spyder2 is better but higher
priced, and you
get 95% of the benefit for the lower price.

Steve Bye

Tim

I think you are going to have a tough time with the bronzing on any glossy
paper until the new A3 version of the R800 comes along and you can use the
"gloss optimizer".  Spraying with Lyson Print Guard "helps" but introduces a
whole new set of problems - mottling of blacks and trapping of dust.  Do you
think buyers would be put off if you switched to a matt (cotton) paper?

I don't think you mentioned what your workflow was.  What inks etc?  QTR can
produce great prints on matt paper with the 2200 even with OEM inks.

With regard to calibration, there is no substitute for a well profiled
monitor.  If you give QTR a try you should take a look at Carl Schofield's
soft proof files. I use QTR and my own soft proof files and believe me it
massively reduces trial and error (with a good monitor profile).

Steve

Tim,

Congrats on successfully selling your prints. Do you have a link to a 
website where they are shown? I'd like to see them.

In my experience (not too great by any means) Premium Luster does exhibit 
less bronzing than Premium Glossy. But it is still there to some degree.

I've taken to spraying my prints after letting them dry for 48hrs. I use 
Premiere Art PrintShield on my glossies, and Lascaux Fixative on my matte 
prints. PrintShield definitely reduces the amount of bronzing on the glossy 
papers, and adds a level of protection between the ink and the outside 
world. If you use these sprays, be mindful of their noxiousness (is that a 
word?). When I spray my prints I hang them up in my garage, leaving the 
garage door open. Then I spray while holding my breath and immediately go 
inside. After 3-5 min I go back out and repeat the process 1 or 2 more 
times.

Derek

I realize this is going to sound crazy, but bear with me.  If you 
like printing on glossy/luster papers for the fine-art prints that 
you sell (I personally use matte papers for fine-art work that will 
be framed and reserve glossy/luster for situations where the prints 
will be handled unframed) and if you are bothered by the bronzing (as 
we all are), have you considered buying a couple of gloss optimizer 
cartridges for the R800, cracking them open, then coating your prints 
with the goo?  I actually tried this out of curiosity to see what the 
gloss op would do on matte papers and it looked horrific on Enhanced 
Matte (I didn't try it with any other matte papers).  Not aurprising 
since the stuff can only be used for glossy papers in the R800.  But 
since you're printing glossy anyway, it might be worth a shot 
provided you can figure a nice even way to apply it.

On the other hand, hey, if you're selling your work now, why change 
your workflow?  That said, I think you should at least calibrate your 
monitor to save you some time, ink, and paper doing trial and error 
to get your prints to match the monitor.  I have never calibrated my 
printer but with my calibrated monitors and accurate ppaper profiles, 
the print matches the screen 99% of the time.

Also, I prefer premium semi-matte to either premium glossy or premium 
luster.  The semi-matte still has a sheen, it shows slightly less 
bronzing than premium glossy, and it has less annoying surface 
texture than premium luster, which is kinda "pebbly."


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Timmermans" 
<zenphoto7@a...> wrote:
> 
> People are starting to buy my 13x19 prints for $200 to $250 a pop 
with
> alarming regularity. This is good.
> 
> What is bad is that I think my prints that look pretty good now 
could
> probably look a lot better if I was using better tools. Problem one 
is
> that all the prints come out much lighter than they look on the
> monitor. I had the same issue with my old 1280. I compensate by
> darkening the images prior to printing.
> 
> I have a 2200 and a 1280 (new but still in the box). I'm using stock
> epson inks. I'm using Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper.
> 
> I have no printer or monitor calibration software.
> 
> My questions..
> 
> Should I consider the printfix bundle that includes the Spyder2pro 
for
> $400 or $500
> 
> Should I use the Premium luster instead of the glossy or would you
> suggest other papers?
> 
> I'd like to try canvas paper. Is there one that works with the 
pigment
> inks that looks good and lasts?
> 
> BRONZING BRONZING BRONZING!!!! The 2200 hundred prints look great 
but

> only straight on. The bronzing is horrible. Is there a fix for this?
> 
> In addition to the product suggestions themselves any tips on best
> pricing sites would also be much appreciated. Atlex is one but they
> don't seem to have canvas paper.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Tim

Thanks to everyone who replied on and off list. What a wealth of
information....and differing opinions.  LOL

It all leaves me better informed and still a bit confused so I guess
there still remains a good deal of trial and error.

Does anyone know when the A3 R800 will be out? Does that essentially
make it a 2200 with better quality prints? What will happen to the 2200?

With my replacement warranty on my virtually unused 1280 I have about
a $400 credit on a trade in that I have to use before March 2005.

Was planning on getting another 2200, hook up some kind of CIS, and
dedicate one to BW and one to color.

Anyone here with "inside" information?

Tim

> From: chipcarterdc [mailto:chipcarterdc@...]
>
> Also, I prefer premium semi-matte to either premium glossy or premium
> luster.  The semi-matte still has a sheen, it shows slightly less
> bronzing than premium glossy, and it has less annoying surface
> texture than premium luster, which is kinda "pebbly."

I agree about the excessive pebbly-ness of Premium Luster, which is why I've
switched to Premium Semigloss. It has basically the same texture, but on a
smaller scale.

I had never heard of this Semimatte before, but on examining its specs, it
looks intriguing. Unfortunately, it only seems to be available in 16" or
wider rolls. To use it on a 2200, I'd have to cut off 13" or shorter pieces.
Has anyone else tried this paper with the Ultrachrome inks? Does it need the
PK ink, or can you use MK on it?

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

Semimatte needs PK, has a lower dmax, does less well in Wilhelm tests, and
uses different profiles than the Premium Gloss, Semigloss and Luster.  The
reason for the Semimatte is that the bronzing is less, but still, in my
opinion, not good enough to avoid spraying.  

So, I prefer the Semigloss with PremierArt spray for the most archival
glossy prints.  Costco Kirkland gloss is my choice for un-sprayed,
non-archival letter-size (at $0.15/sheet).  Too bad they don't make larger
sizes.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

______________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul D. DeRocco [mailto:pderocco@...] 
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 2:16 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson Semimatte (was: Growing up...better
printing)


> From: chipcarterdc [mailto:chipcarterdc@...]
>
> Also, I prefer premium semi-matte to either premium glossy or premium
> luster.  The semi-matte still has a sheen, it shows slightly less
> bronzing than premium glossy, and it has less annoying surface
> texture than premium luster, which is kinda "pebbly."

I agree about the excessive pebbly-ness of Premium Luster, which is why I've
switched to Premium Semigloss. It has basically the same texture, but on a
smaller scale.

I had never heard of this Semimatte before, but on examining its specs, it
looks intriguing. Unfortunately, it only seems to be available in 16" or
wider rolls. To use it on a 2200, I'd have to cut off 13" or shorter pieces.
Has anyone else tried this paper with the Ultrachrome inks? Does it need the
PK ink, or can you use MK on it?

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...




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> From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...]
>
> Semimatte needs PK, has a lower dmax, does less well in Wilhelm tests, and
> uses different profiles than the Premium Gloss, Semigloss and Luster.  The
> reason for the Semimatte is that the bronzing is less, but still, in my
> opinion, not good enough to avoid spraying.

Do you have a sense of how it's Dmax compares to Enhanced Matte with MK?

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

I've got a roll of the premium semi-mat.  I don't like it.  Most people seem to go for the semi-gloss instead.  I haven't seen much in the way of positive comments about it.
 
Tom Baker

"Paul D. DeRocco" <pderocco@....com> wrote:

> From: chipcarterdc [mailto:chipcarterdc@...]
>
> Also, I prefer premium semi-matte to either premium glossy or premium
> luster. The semi-matte still has a sheen, it shows slightly less
> bronzing than premium glossy, and it has less annoying surface
> texture than premium luster, which is kinda "pebbly."

I agree about the excessive pebbly-ness of Premium Luster, which is why I've
switched to Premium Semigloss. It has basically the same texture, but on a
smaller scale.

I had never heard of this Semimatte before, but on examining its specs, it
looks intriguing. Unfortunately, it only seems to be available in 16" or
wider rolls. To use it on a 2200, I'd have to cut off 13" or shorter pieces.
Has anyone else tried this paper with the Ultrachrome inks? Does it need the
PK ink, or can you use MK on it?

--

Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco
Paul mailto:pderocco@...




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Please follow these basic guidelines:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Paul D. DeRocco [mailto:pderocco@...] 

>> From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...]
>
>> Semimatte needs PK, has a lower dmax, does less well in 
>>Wilhelm tests, and uses different profiles than the Premium 
>>Gloss, Semigloss and Luster.  The reason for the Semimatte 
>>is that the bronzing is less, but still, in my
>> opinion, not good enough to avoid spraying.

>Do you have a sense of how it's Dmax compares to Enhanced Matte with MK?

I have a 4000 test strip printed with MIS PK that reads 1.79.  That is
higher than EEM, but I think it's an "apples and oranges" comparison.  To me
the higher "glossy" dmaxs usually don't look higher unless the lighting is
perfect, because of the reflections off RC papers.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"  
> So, I prefer the Semigloss with PremierArt spray for the most archival
> glossy prints.  Costco Kirkland gloss is my choice for un-sprayed,
> non-archival letter-size (at $0.15/sheet).  Too bad they don't make
larger
> sizes.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 


Paul,

Is this paper you're refering to?...........

EPSON S041327 Semigloss Photo Paper 13in x 19in
Price: pkg 	$35.99

Do you know how many sheets are in the box? It didn't say on the atlex
site.

Do you know if it comes in 13 x ? rolls?

Also, does anyone know if the cutter provided with 2200 will cut the
rolled canvas paper? Has anyone ever stretched the canvas paper over a
wood frame? Does it affect the image.

Tim

Epson Premium Semigloss comes in packages with 20 sheets per package.  See
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/ProductMediaSpec.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&i
nfoType=Overview&oid=-8777&category=Paper+%26+Media

(Cut and paste the URL)

Europe has larger sizes and rolls.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
______________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Timmermans [mailto:zenphoto7@...] 
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 5:43 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Semimatte (was: Growing up...better
printing)



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"  
> So, I prefer the Semigloss with PremierArt spray for the most archival
> glossy prints.  Costco Kirkland gloss is my choice for un-sprayed,
> non-archival letter-size (at $0.15/sheet).  Too bad they don't make
larger
> sizes.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 


Paul,

Is this paper you're refering to?...........

EPSON S041327 Semigloss Photo Paper 13in x 19in
Price: pkg 	$35.99

Do you know how many sheets are in the box? It didn't say on the atlex
site.

Do you know if it comes in 13 x ? rolls?

Also, does anyone know if the cutter provided with 2200 will cut the
rolled canvas paper? Has anyone ever stretched the canvas paper over a
wood frame? Does it affect the image.

Tim






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
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FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
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