Digital BW, The Print

Okay all you gurus out there, I want you to weigh in on this before 
I start flashing my credit card around. I do not have a printer 
suitable for high-quality black & white printing so I'm starting 
from scratch.

Please vote and offer your suggestions/recommendations on (A) or (B) 
as a starting point for an experienced computer user, photographer, 
and darkroom trained b&w printer. Of course, if you have a (C) or 
(D), I'd like to hear about those too.

(A) an Epson 2200 with Eboni inks and Epson Enhanced Matte paper for 
black only (BO) printing as described by Clayton Jones at 
http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn3.htm

(B) an Epson 1280 with the Piezography BW icc system as hawked by 
the InkjetMall at http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/bw2/bw-buy.html

Let's assume for now that I will not be using a CIS and that I'm not 
necessarily looking for the least expensive method.

It's (B) and you might consider an 1160 instead of the 1280 because it's
(A1) cheaper and (B1) works just as well.

If you start with the cartridges you will not remain on them for long
because they seem to run out of ink rather quickly - well they certainly did
with me so I am about to fit a CIS four colour using the truly magical
Carbon Sepia - known to the ancient Greeks as "Inkus perfectus", I do
believe.

Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: zdirk99 [mailto:ausdlk@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 6:23 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] BO or Piezography BW icc ?



Okay all you gurus out there, I want you to weigh in on this before 
I start flashing my credit card around. I do not have a printer 
suitable for high-quality black & white printing so I'm starting 
from scratch.

Please vote and offer your suggestions/recommendations on (A) or (B) 
as a starting point for an experienced computer user, photographer, 
and darkroom trained b&w printer. Of course, if you have a (C) or 
(D), I'd like to hear about those too.

(A) an Epson 2200 with Eboni inks and Epson Enhanced Matte paper for 
black only (BO) printing as described by Clayton Jones at 
http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn3.htm

(B) an Epson 1280 with the Piezography BW icc system as hawked by 
the InkjetMall at http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/bw2/bw-buy.html

Let's assume for now that I will not be using a CIS and that I'm not 
necessarily looking for the least expensive method.






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

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>Please vote and offer your suggestions/recommendations on (A) or (B)
>as a starting point for an experienced computer user, photographer,
>and darkroom trained b&w printer

(A) is certainly the simplest, least expensive starting point once you have
the printer. After using MIS VM and UT2 inks in an Epson 1160 and then 1280
printer for several years but then for some reason losing the ability to get
a neutral black and white print from either of them I switched to (A) with
my wife's 2200 printer and have been very pleased with the results. I've
never used (B) so I can't compare except that IIRC it's quite expensive. I
was prepared to pay it until I found (A) and then Roy Harrington came out
with QTR for Windows, now I'd pay the money for the Cone system only as a
last resort after trying less expensive methods ((A) or(C) below) unless
someone could explain why it's better than anything else.

(C) would be using either the 1280 or 2200 with Epson color inks and the QTR
Rip. I'm sure others will explain this method in more detail. I haven't yet
been able to try it.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "zdirk99" <ausdlk@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 1:22 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] BO or Piezography BW icc ?




Okay all you gurus out there, I want you to weigh in on this before
I start flashing my credit card around. I do not have a printer
suitable for high-quality black & white printing so I'm starting
from scratch.

Please vote and offer your suggestions/recommendations on (A) or (B)
as a starting point for an experienced computer user, photographer,
and darkroom trained b&w printer. Of course, if you have a (C) or
(D), I'd like to hear about those too.

(A) an Epson 2200 with Eboni inks and Epson Enhanced Matte paper for
black only (BO) printing as described by Clayton Jones at
http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn3.htm

(B) an Epson 1280 with the Piezography BW icc system as hawked by
the InkjetMall at http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/bw2/bw-buy.html

Let's assume for now that I will not be using a CIS and that I'm not
necessarily looking for the least expensive method.






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "zdirk99"
<ausdlk@s...> wrote:
I started with an Epson 2200 and ultrachrome inks and was totally
dissatisfied with the b&w printing.  So, I went to the 1280 (got a
reconditioned one on the internet so saved some money) and went to the
Piezography inks (selenium tone).  I quickly moved to the CIS system
because the ink gets used up so quickly.  I had some problems with the
CIS system and found InkJetMall.com very responsive and helpful. 
After a number of fixes, they finally sent me two new complete sets of
cartridge and tubes, the first of which worked perfectly.  I have the
second as backup.  Sometimes the inks are not always in stock so you
may have to wait.  But, overall, I have been extremely happy with them
as a supplier and the quality of the output.  The one downside:  you
cannot use any type of glossy paper or the premium luster type of
paper which is my preferred paper.  You must use a matte paper and the
Hahnemuhle (spelling?) is a good paper.  The ultimate test as far as I
am concerned is that a serious photography collector (I mean real
serious, he has his own gallery in the SF Museum of Modern Art) saw my
work and said it was the first time he had seen digital prints that
looked like real photographs, and he took two of them.  The only other
limitation of the 1280 is the size, you can't get wider than 13
inches.  And I am unwilling to buy a 7600 yet to dedicate to b&w prints.

Mike

 
> Okay all you gurus out there, I want you to weigh in on this before 
> I start flashing my credit card around. I do not have a printer 
> suitable for high-quality black & white printing so I'm starting 
> from scratch.
> 
> Please vote and offer your suggestions/recommendations on (A) or (B) 
> as a starting point for an experienced computer user, photographer, 
> and darkroom trained b&w printer. Of course, if you have a (C) or 
> (D), I'd like to hear about those too.
> 
> (A) an Epson 2200 with Eboni inks and Epson Enhanced Matte paper for 
> black only (BO) printing as described by Clayton Jones at 
> http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn3.htm
> 
> (B) an Epson 1280 with the Piezography BW icc system as hawked by 
> the InkjetMall at http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/bw2/bw-buy.html
> 
> Let's assume for now that I will not be using a CIS and that I'm not 
> necessarily loo
king for the least expensive method.

On Wednesday, November 17, 2004, at 09:03AM, <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>Message: 6         
>   Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 06:22:38 -0000
>   From: "zdirk99" <ausdlk@...>
>Subject: BO or Piezography BW icc ?
>
>
>Okay all you gurus out there, I want you to weigh in on this before 
>I start flashing my credit card around. I do not have a printer 
>suitable for high-quality black & white printing so I'm starting 
>from scratch.
>
>Please vote and offer your suggestions/recommendations on (A) or (B) 
>as a starting point for an experienced computer user, photographer, 
>and darkroom trained b&w printer. Of course, if you have a (C) or 
>(D), I'd like to hear about those too.
>
>(A) an Epson 2200 with Eboni inks and Epson Enhanced Matte paper for 
>black only (BO) printing as described by Clayton Jones at 
>http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn3.htm
>
>(B) an Epson 1280 with the Piezography BW icc system as hawked by 
>the InkjetMall at http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/bw2/bw-buy.html


I think BO wins in terms of simplicity, but the Piezography prints are quite stunning as well. The only downside is that you have to dedicate the printer to that purpose. The BO approach lets you use the newer printer technology and has the flexibility to print color as well.

I will add an option C:

A top notch custom profile for the paper you intend to use might get you to where you want to go. In the end this will be more flexible than Piezography and will give you a richer print than BO. I suggest profiling the device in PhotoRealistic mode, which reduces the gamut a little, but yields much more accurate profiles for printing B&W. There is a PDF up on my web site outlining this approach.

Good luck,

Eric Bullock
PixelPusherz Imaging
www.pixelpusherz.net

I have an Epson 2000P that has a faulty print head (makes a line of
magenta across the paper every 1/8 inch or so). Your post here makes
me think I should toss the 2000P and just get a 1280 and start off
with the CIS system rather than fiddle with getting the 2000P fixed.

Jeffery

Hello Zdirk,

> Please vote and offer your suggestions/recommendations on (A) or
(B) 
> as a starting point for an experienced computer user, photographer, 
> and darkroom trained b&w printer. Of course, if you have a (C) or 
> (D), I'd like to hear about those too.

BO is a great way to get started because it's easy and inexpensive. 
There is a huge amount of learning in the early stages, both in
Photoshop and getting into the feel of it in general, learing what the
limits are, etc.  The learning curve can be steepened when hassling
with an ink system's ideosyncracies is tossed into the mix.  Using BO
will establish a baseline for which to compare other techniques later.

At some point you'll get the urge to try other things.  A good
recommendation for (C) is 2200/UT7.  I'm experimenting with this now
and finding it quite good so far.  I'm still trying to get control of
it but have been so busy with work lately I haven't been able to
devote much time to it.

The 2200 is a great printer, and being designed for pigment inks,
seems to have fewer clogging problems than the 1280 (I haven't kept a
talley, but it just seems that a large % of the clogging/banding
threads in the Forum are for the 1280).  And now that the new
easy-fill carts are available it's even better.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm