Digital BW, The Print

Okay, Money is not a problem...
looking for the best B&W inkjet or dye sub printer,
that can do B&W photo's.


Could someone recommend which printer?
Thanks-

Richard

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard 
<cms01@t...> wrote:
> Okay, Money is not a problem...
> looking for the best B&W inkjet or dye sub printer,
> that can do B&W photo's.
> 
> 
> Could someone recommend which printer?
> Thanks-
> 
> Richard

Hi Richard,

What size prints do you anticipate doing, and what's their purpose, 
galleries, etc?

Jules

Best is relative to your standards, or your requirements.  Any Epson fron 1160 to 
present will give acceptable results - especially when loaded with a FS quad or hex 
inkset from MIS.

If you don't want to buy a printer or spend time calibrating, try mpix.com.  I just 
received my first order and am quite impressed.  They output digital files with a Durst 
Theta onto Kodak black and white RC (similar to the Lightjet printing process).  The 
prints exhibit an excellent tonal scale and deep blacks - without dither.  If you are 
accustomed to darkroom prints, you will be quite impressed with mpix.   I can't stress 
enough how pleased I am with their service and turnaround time, that and I don't have 
any need to purchase additional printing equipment. 

For my next trick, I plan to tone a few of the images with KRST as well as Sepia to see 
how this paper compares to my darkroom images.  I'll post again after I get out of the 
darkroom.

Don


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard <cms01@t...> wrote:

> Okay, Money is not a problem...
> looking for the best B&W inkjet or dye sub printer,
> that can do B&W photo's.
> 
> 
> Could someone recommend which printer?
> Thanks-
> 
> Richard

5x7 8x10 and yes galleries.


lulalake_1999 wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard 
><cms01@t...> wrote:
>  
>
>>Okay, Money is not a problem...
>>looking for the best B&W inkjet or dye sub printer,
>>that can do B&W photo's.
>>
>>
>>Could someone recommend which printer?
>>Thanks-
>>
>>Richard
>>    
>>
>
>Hi Richard,
>
>What size prints do you anticipate doing, and what's their purpose, 
>galleries, etc?
>
>Jules
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
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>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
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> 
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>  
>

There are any number that you might investigate that will do up to 
8x10 as a dedicated B&W (many more that will do bigger too)

I think an equally as important are the inks, ink/paper 
considerations.

You will probably want to use archival pigmants and the two biggies 
are Pieziotone, iQuad inks

http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/bw2/iquads.html

and MIS:

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/utez.html

The array of printers is large, going from way cheap Epsons (Under 
100 bucks for an excellent B&W printer, no kidding) up to around one 
to two thousand or so for great 8x10

I, along with many others here, use the Epson c84 for a dedicated B&W 
8x10 printer,  50 to 80 bucks. 
(Rather amazing eh) and MIS archival inks with a  variety of papers, 
generally Epson Velvet Fine Art paper. There are many that are just 
as good and better actually.

Just read the many posts here about what printers do well and you can 
find something with little problem.

Great prints really don't have to cost an arm and a leg (just a 
finger or two).

Cheers

Jules



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard 
<cms01@t...> wrote:
> 5x7 8x10 and yes galleries.
> 
> 
> lulalake_1999 wrote:
> 
> >--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard 
> ><cms01@t...> wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>Okay, Money is not a problem...
> >>looking for the best B&W inkjet or dye sub printer,
> >>that can do B&W photo's.
> >>
> >>
> >>Could someone recommend which printer?
> >>Thanks-
> >>
> >>Richard
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >Hi Richard,
> >
> >What size prints do you anticipate doing, and what's their 
purpose, 
> >galleries, etc?
> >
> >Jules
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> >
> >Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep them short.
> >- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
from the membership without notice.
> >- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may 
be removed from the membership.
> >- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" 
in the Files section:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> >BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, 
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL 
BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF 
SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT 
OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) 
ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

> > 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >

I am wondering if anyone has had any luck getting the epson 7000 to show up
in panther. I am trying to get QTR running but I am having a hard time
getting the panther to see anything other than the gimp version. I am also
wondering if I need the full version or can I use ³usb printer ³ and the
gimp....?

Thanks 

Steve Smith


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Smith <photosmith@v...> 
wrote:
> I am wondering if anyone has had any luck getting the epson 7000 to show up
> in panther. I am trying to get QTR running but I am having a hard time
> getting the panther to see anything other than the gimp version. I am also
> wondering if I need the full version or can I use ³usb printer ³ and the
> gimp....?
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Steve Smith
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Steve,

If you are using the 2.1 version there are install scripts for each printer.
These set up the printer without having to use Printer Setup Utility.
There aren't any builtin profiles for the 7000 so you will need to create
ones for the inkset you use.  For this you will have to use the 2.0beta9
version for the CurveDesign information and programs.

Roy

I've just returned from the darkroom, and the "true" black and white prints from mpix 
tone beautifully via traditional methods.  

Like most of the members on this list I have sought out a true digital replacement for 
my darkroom prining.  As I shoot all digital now, I have been searching for a method 
to output to silver paper.  I know of two labs that print to silver paper, www.mpix.com 
and San Miguel www.bestlab.com.  San Miguel uses a LCD in the carrier of an optical 
enlarger (fibre and RC), and Mpix uses a Durst Theta which exposes paper with either 
LED's or laser (can't remember which).  From the sounds of it, most users are divided 
on the quality of San Miguels output, and as the price was high I did not try them out.  
However, since mpix is only 2.49 per 8x10 I gave it a shot.

The prints are neutral with an excellent tonal range and rich blacks.  I don't care much 
for numbers or sensitometry but visually these prints exhibit excellent Dmax.

I wanted to see how the prints would tone, so that I could add slight color as well as 
added longevity.  The first print was used with Kodak Sepia Toner, the traditional 2 
bath.  Not much to say, very sepia.  Looks great with portraits.  On the second print, I 
bleached the print with the Sepia Toner first bath, washed, then redeveloped with 
Ilford Multigrade at a dilution of 1:4.  This gave the image a slightly colder tone.  As I 
wanted a cold purple or blue look, I gave it a two minute bath in Kodak Rapid 
Selenium Toner 1:5.  That cooled off the image remarkably.

This paper tones easily and is an excellent paper for redevelopment.  Accordingly, any 
number of darkroom practices can be used on these prints (gold toning, platinum 
toning, etc.).  I'll be trying a lith redevelopment next - as soon as my next order 
comes in.

That and no ink on my hands...  Consider that they can print up to 20x30 ($32.00) so 
the alternative would be an Epson 7600, and not many of us can afford that beast.

Don

I'd be very interested to hear about the Lith redevolpment, I've never 
heard about such a technique. Off list if others consider it too off topic

Thanks

Glenn

hill14701 wrote:

> 
> I've just returned from the darkroom, and the "true" black and white prints from mpix 
> tone beautifully via traditional methods.  
> 
> Like most of the members on this list I have sought out a true digital replacement for 
> my darkroom prining.  As I shoot all digital now, I have been searching for a method 
> to output to silver paper.  I know of two labs that print to silver paper, www.mpix.com 
> and San Miguel www.bestlab.com.  San Miguel uses a LCD in the carrier of an optical 
> enlarger (fibre and RC), and Mpix uses a Durst Theta which exposes paper with either 
> LED's or laser (can't remember which).  From the sounds of it, most users are divided 
> on the quality of San Miguels output, and as the price was high I did not try them out.  
> However, since mpix is only 2.49 per 8x10 I gave it a shot.
> 
> The prints are neutral with an excellent tonal range and rich blacks.  I don't care much 
> for numbers or sensitometry but visually these prints exhibit excellent Dmax.
> 
> I wanted to see how the prints would tone, so that I could add slight color as well as 
> added longevity.  The first print was used with Kodak Sepia Toner, the traditional 2 
> bath.  Not much to say, very sepia.  Looks great with portraits.  On the second print, I 
> bleached the print with the Sepia Toner first bath, washed, then redeveloped with 
> Ilford Multigrade at a dilution of 1:4.  This gave the image a slightly colder tone.  As I 
> wanted a cold purple or blue look, I gave it a two minute bath in Kodak Rapid 
> Selenium Toner 1:5.  That cooled off the image remarkably.
> 
> This paper tones easily and is an excellent paper for redevelopment.  Accordingly, any 
> number of darkroom practices can be used on these prints (gold toning, platinum 
> toning, etc.).  I'll be trying a lith redevelopment next - as soon as my next order 
> comes in.
> 
> That and no ink on my hands...  Consider that they can print up to 20x30 ($32.00) so 
> the alternative would be an Epson 7600, and not many of us can afford that beast.
> 
> Don
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

It's funny but there seems to be much activity lately in the "switching
7000 printers over to B&W" world .

I've just spent a couple of days in this process myself.

I am using the MIS UT/FS inks in my 7000 and driving it with QTR.

Firstly, there is a little patch software that Roy turned me on to  that
allows a Mac using Panther to talk to the 7000. One must use the GIMP
drivers because Epson won't support old printers.

QTR uses the GIMP as well.

Setting up QTR is a little convoluted but if one carefully reads the 
instructions and does everything
to the letter, it's wonderful.

There are no curves for the 7000 and the UT/FS inks so I renamed and 
used the 1280/FS curves.

I'm still foggy as to how to fix the curves for all the parameters, so 
my crossover points are a
little funky and I still need to get greater light gray density out of 
them, but I worked around it
for now using the GIMP's "expert" adjustments on top of the QTR.

Any help with writing new curves to accomplish these changes will be 
appreciated.

I have a colorimeter that has a densitometer software that I intend to 
use when I figure out how.

For those following, I went with the  C and lc being dark grey and the 
M and lm being medium grey.

Ok, it's back to work now.

J.Z.

John, Roy, I have been flogging away on the 7000. I have copied the  7500vm
toned example ink file and switched the light cyan to magenta. It seemed
that the light cyan and cyan were the same ink.  I made a preliminary curve
with Run Quad Profile and then printed the 21 step wedge and linearized it
with the Eye one. This quad.curve made a decent wedge and test print. I am
in the process of doing the same thing for HPR. If any one has any comments
and/or suggestions about this workflow ­ I will let you all know how I make
out.

Thanks 

Steve Smith

> It's funny but there seems to be much activity lately in the "switching
> 7000 printers over to B&W" world .
> 
> I've just spent a couple of days in this process myself.
> 
> I am using the MIS UT/FS inks in my 7000 and driving it with QTR.
> 
> Firstly, there is a little patch software that Roy turned me on to  that
> allows a Mac using Panther to talk to the 7000. One must use the GIMP
> drivers because Epson won't support old printers.
> 
> QTR uses the GIMP as well.
> 
> Setting up QTR is a little convoluted but if one carefully reads the
> instructions and does everything
> to the letter, it's wonderful.
> 
> There are no curves for the 7000 and the UT/FS inks so I renamed and
> used the 1280/FS curves.
> 
> I'm still foggy as to how to fix the curves for all the parameters, so
> my crossover points are a
> little funky and I still need to get greater light gray density out of
> them, but I worked around it
> for now using the GIMP's "expert" adjustments on top of the QTR.
> 
> Any help with writing new curves to accomplish these changes will be
> appreciated.
> 
> I have a colorimeter that has a densitometer software that I intend to
> use when I figure out how.
> 
> For those following, I went with the  C and lc being dark grey and the
> M and lm being medium grey.
> 
> Ok, it's back to work now.
> 
> J.Z.
>   
>   
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
> “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve,

Glad someone is working on this.

Please keep us all informed of how this workflow works out for you.

john




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Smith <photosmith@v...> 
wrote:

> John, Roy, I have been flogging away on the 7000. I have copied the  7500vm
> toned example ink file and switched the light cyan to magenta. It seemed
> that the light cyan and cyan were the same ink.  I made a preliminary curve
> with Run Quad Profile and then printed the 21 step wedge and linearized it
> with the Eye one. This quad.curve made a decent wedge and test print. I am
> in the process of doing the same thing for HPR. If any one has any comments
> and/or suggestions about this workflow ­ I will let you all know how I make
> out.
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Steve Smith
> 
>