Digital BW, The Print

Today I've made my first prints with UT2 inks, with my Epson Stylus 870, and
I'm impressed by the tonal range and quality of the printed images.
Anyway, there is a little thing I don't understand. I loaded my 870 with an
eboni black cartridge (T007), and with the equivalent UT2 color cartridge
(T008). Next, I've used Paul Roark's curves, but every profile only uses
the color cartridge, even the xyz.eboni.acv ones.
So, the question is: what is the purpose of the black cartridge? After ten
prints it's still full, while the color one is at half of its capacity.

Best regards,
Claudio Valerio

For what it's Worth.....this may help some people save some time 
etc......


Ok, I have been making an album of photos, for a gift, about 25 prints, 
and used the project to really get to know the costco glossy paper. 
Earlier I posted about the slider positions for getting a neutral 
print. I had said that I thought this was the best:
cyan =0
mag  = neg 8
yel=    0

this does makes maybe the most neutral print, but I have found that 
this paper is more picky in regards to lighting that any matte, rag, or 
even epson cheap glossy or ilford smooth pearl.
  In different lighting situations, You really see some magenta in the 
shadows, but if you counteract it by using more cool ink, (the cyan 
slider) that gets really cool fast, and you still get some magenta down 
low kind of like a split tone... Very darks are very cool, mids are 
slightly red, and high mids are warm, and then highs are cool. 
SO.....wonder-of-wonders.....I have come to the conclusion that just 
leaving everything at zero gives a great print that looks good in all 
lighting, even though it's kind of warm, and not neutral, the tone is 
the same in all the gradations, and the warmth is a real nice normal 
looking warm.

I am sure that a set of curves could counter-act all of that, but I'll 
bet that things will still shift a lot in diferent lighting. With 
sliders at zero, and 2880 dpi, these settings really make a print that 
people like, and they dont say    "..did you do this on a 
computer?".....with that kind of dissaproving look that people get when 
they think that they are "fooled" into thinking  they are looking at a 
"photograph"

I also determined that Print shield makes them feel more natural, as 
well as eliminating most of the little bit of bronzing that shows.

Now we just need to find out who makes it and how to get a good supply 
of it.
Doug M

Claudio,

The curves for matte paper use the Eboni matte black.  It's only the curves
for glossy paper that I pull, usually, the yellow ink (blue curve) up to
stop the matte black from hitting the glossy paper.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
___________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: Claudio Valerio [mailto:clauvale@...] 
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 11:06 AM
To: BW Digital Print
Subject: [Digital BW] MIS UT2 Black cartridge



Today I've made my first prints with UT2 inks, with my Epson Stylus 870, and
I'm impressed by the tonal range and quality of the printed images.
Anyway, there is a little thing I don't understand. I loaded my 870 with an
eboni black cartridge (T007), and with the equivalent UT2 color cartridge
(T008). Next, I've used Paul Roark's curves, but every profile only uses
the color cartridge, even the xyz.eboni.acv ones.
So, the question is: what is the purpose of the black cartridge? After ten
prints it's still full, while the color one is at half of its capacity.

Best regards,
Claudio Valerio








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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
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ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
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MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi,

I've been lurking on the List for awhile and have gathered lots of 
information.

I've decided to buy a Epson C86 (just ordered it) and use the EZ ink 
from InkSupply to print b&w.

I've not done much printing and my experience is with Epson 2200 and 
Epson matte paper.

Anyone with suggestion for a matte paper with some structure? I'm not 
very happy with the matte surface from Epson's paper, think it's too 
smooth.....

Thanks,
danny

Danny,

Try Hahnemuhle William Turner - awesome paper!  The Epson Velvet Fine 
Art paper is good too, and may be less expensive than the William 
Turner.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Danny Twang 
<dannyt@f...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've been lurking on the List for awhile and have gathered lots of 
> information.
> 
> I've decided to buy a Epson C86 (just ordered it) and use the EZ 
ink 
> from InkSupply to print b&w.
> 
> I've not done much printing and my experience is with Epson 2200 
and 
> Epson matte paper.
> 
> Anyone with suggestion for a matte paper with some structure? I'm 
not 
> very happy with the matte surface from Epson's paper, think it's 
too 

> smooth.....
> 
> Thanks,
> danny

The other two H papers as well with nice surfaces are German Etching,
a bit buff, and White Velvet, a bright white.
They will all kick the stuffings out of SV in terms of dmax and no
bleed/mottle.
Try Jim at shadesofpaper.com
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani"
<shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:

> 
> Danny,
> 
> Try Hahnemuhle William Turner - awesome paper!  The Epson Velvet Fine 
> Art paper is good too, and may be less expensive than the William 
> Turner.
> 
> Shilesh
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Danny Twang 
> <dannyt@f...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I've been lurking on the List for awhile and have gathered lots of 
> > information.
> > 
> > I've decided to buy a Epson C86 (just ordered it) and use the EZ 
> ink 
> > from InkSupply to print b&w.
> > 
> > I've not done much printing and my experience is with Epson 2200 
> and 
> > Epson matte paper.
> > 
> > Anyone with suggestion for a matte paper with some structure? I'm 
> not 
> > very happy with the matte surface from Epson's paper, think it's 
> too 
> > smooth.....
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > danny

I'll second Shilesh's vote for the William turner, particularly if 
you want warm tone. But there are lots of others: Epson's Radiant 
White Watercolor prints quite well and is cheaper, good intermediate 
step, and available at CompUsa. Also, Get a sample-pack from Hawk 
Mountain Papers, a couple of those do very well also. If you haven't 
found it already, check Clayton Jones' paper comparison chart, it 
might be useful:  

http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn5.htm

Steve Karafyllakis


> 
> Try Hahnemuhle William Turner - awesome paper!  The Epson Velvet 
Fine 
> Art paper is good too, and may be less expensive than the William 
> Turner.
> 
> Shilesh
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Danny Twang 
> <dannyt@f...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I've been lurking on the List for awhile and have gathered lots 
of 
> > information.
> > 
> > I've decided to buy a Epson C86 (just ordered it) and use the EZ 
> ink 
> > from InkSupply to print b&w.
> > 
> > I've not done much printing and my experience is with Epson 2200 
> and 
> > Epson matte paper.
> > 
> > Anyone with suggestion for a matte paper with some structure? 
I'm 

> not 
> > very happy with the matte surface from Epson's paper, think it's 
> too 
> > smooth.....
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > danny

There are plenty of great papers out there worth considering. That 
being said there are a few papers you should take a look at. It is 
really tough to beat the Hahnemühle papers and they come in all sorts 
of textures. Photo Rag is smooth-ish, while German Etching has more of 
a texture to it, whileWilliam Turner has even more texture. I'd also 
suggest taking a look at the Innova papers. The Smooth Cotton is sort 
of like Photo Rag and the Soft Texture is much like German Etching.

The great thing is that you can get both Hahnemühle and Innova papers 
from the same place. Try Jim Doyle at Shades of Paper.

www.shadesofpaper.com

Another great paper is the Condor (and Condor BW) by Hawk Mountain Art 
Papers.

Regards,

Eric Bullock
PixelPusherz Imaging
www.pixelpusherz.net

Thank you, Paul, now I've all clear. 
Best regards,
Claudio

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>

Claudio,

The curves for matte paper use the Eboni matte black.  It's only the curves
for glossy paper that I pull, usually, the yellow ink (blue curve) up to
stop the matte black from hitting the glossy paper.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
___________________________

All,
	Well, once again I tried to use the search engine to go through the 
archives, but came up with no results whatsoever.  What's up with it, 
anyway?
	So...I remember there being discussions of the various print sprays out 
there.  Print Shield comes up quite often, but also the Lascaux one.  I 
dimly recall that one works better with stuff like Smooth Pearl, while 
the other works best for matte stuff.  Can anyone refresh my memory?


thanks,
allan

Allan,

>... discussions of the various print sprays out 
>...  Print Shield comes up quite often, but also the Lascaux one.  ...

PremierArt Print Shield is what I use on glossy papers.  It does a better
job of hiding the bronzing.  On matte paper, however, it reduces the dmax
significantly -- Lascaux does not.  So, I use Lascaux on matte if I think
there is a risk of abrasion.  I use nothing on matte paper that is going
under glass.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Allen,

The yahoo groups search engine only queries the first archive one chunk 
of messages at a time, not the whole thing. After an unsuccessful 
search, there is a button on the screen that says "search next x files" 
or something like that.

You have to keep pressing this button until your search hits.

James

On Dec 6, 2004, at 7:43 PM, Allan Chen wrote:

>
> All,
> 	Well, once again I tried to use the search engine to go through the
> archives, but came up with no results whatsoever.  What's up with it,
> anyway?
> 	So...I remember there being discussions of the various print sprays 
> out
> there.  Print Shield comes up quite often, but also the Lascaux one.  I
> dimly recall that one works better with stuff like Smooth Pearl, while
> the other works best for matte stuff.  Can anyone refresh my memory?
>
>
> thanks,
> allan
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” 
> AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

James,
	Ah.  thanks.  I somehow just couldn't figure that out...

allan

James Haney wrote:
> Allen,
> 
> The yahoo groups search engine only queries the first archive one chunk 
> of messages at a time, not the whole thing. After an unsuccessful 
> search, there is a button on the screen that says "search next x files" 
> or something like that.
> 
> You have to keep pressing this button until your search hits.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 6, 2004, at 7:43 PM, Allan Chen wrote:
> 
> 
>>All,
>>	Well, once again I tried to use the search engine to go through the
>>archives, but came up with no results whatsoever.  What's up with it,
>>anyway?
>>	So...I remember there being discussions of the various print sprays 
>>out
>>there.  Print Shield comes up quite often, but also the Lascaux one.  I
>>dimly recall that one works better with stuff like Smooth Pearl, while
>>the other works best for matte stuff.  Can anyone refresh my memory?
>>
>>
>>thanks,
>>allan
>>
>>
>>
>>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
>>resources as they are often being updated.
>>
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
>>to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
>>this same page.
>>
>>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
>>keep them short.
>>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
>>flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
>>the membership without notice.
>>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
>>B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
>>removed from the membership.
>>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
>>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
>>Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the 
>>Files section:
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>
>>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
>>PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd 
>>AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
>>LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
>>CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
>>DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
>>LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
>>YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
>>RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
>>THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
>>YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
>>PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
>>MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Technical Projects Specialist
Academic Computing
Stanford University
v - (650) 996-0546
f - (650) 725-4685

Paul,
	I realize this is a very slow reply, but I just thought of something. 
Do you use the Print Shield on all the glossy prints, or only on the 
ones not going behind glass?

allan

Paul Roark wrote:
> Allan,
> 
> 
>>... discussions of the various print sprays out 
>>...  Print Shield comes up quite often, but also the Lascaux one.  ...
> 
> 
> PremierArt Print Shield is what I use on glossy papers.  It does a better
> job of hiding the bronzing.  On matte paper, however, it reduces the dmax
> significantly -- Lascaux does not.  So, I use Lascaux on matte if I think
> there is a risk of abrasion.  I use nothing on matte paper that is going
> under glass.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Technical Projects Specialist
Academic Computing
Stanford University
v - (650) 996-0546
f - (650) 725-4685

Allan,

>Do you use the Print Shield on all the glossy prints, 
>or only on the ones not going behind glass?

I don't put glossy prints under glass.  In part this is due to the fogging
problem.  But, some do put un-sprayed Semimatte under glass just to get the
better dmax in the image.

I don't spray all the gloss prints.  The Costco paper and the Epson Glossy
Photo paper just don't need spray.  So, I use them for snapshots and,
especially the Costco, proofs and draft prints as I work up an image. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
_____________________________



Paul Roark wrote:
> Allan,
> 
> 
>>... discussions of the various print sprays out 
>>...  Print Shield comes up quite often, but also the Lascaux one.  ...
> 
> 
> PremierArt Print Shield is what I use on glossy papers.  It does a better
> job of hiding the bronzing.  On matte paper, however, it reduces the dmax
> significantly -- Lascaux does not.  So, I use Lascaux on matte if I think
> there is a risk of abrasion.  I use nothing on matte paper that is going
> under glass.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Technical Projects Specialist
Academic Computing
Stanford University
v - (650) 996-0546
f - (650) 725-4685



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

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