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Digital Camera

Digital Camera

2004-12-08 by stasunas

It has been a while since I have been out taking photos. Most of my 
experience has been with a 4x5 and primarily interested in 
landscapes, scanning the film and then printing them digitally with 
varoius B&W inks and processes. I am going to be going on a sevral 
month journey to take pictures, but on a motorcycle. This mode of 
transportation has me rethinking my equipment. I an thinking of 
taking a digital camera in lieu of my bulky 4x5. I am concerned about 
image quality and size and am aware that I will loose some important 
camera controls. I would appreciate any thoughts on the use of a 
digital camera and feasability of using one to get respectable prints 
up to 13x19. 

Regards,

Tony

RE: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-08 by Paul D. DeRocco

> From: stasunas [mailto:Astasunas@...]
>
> It has been a while since I have been out taking photos. Most of my
> experience has been with a 4x5 and primarily interested in
> landscapes, scanning the film and then printing them digitally with
> varoius B&W inks and processes. I am going to be going on a sevral
> month journey to take pictures, but on a motorcycle. This mode of
> transportation has me rethinking my equipment. I an thinking of
> taking a digital camera in lieu of my bulky 4x5. I am concerned about
> image quality and size and am aware that I will loose some important
> camera controls. I would appreciate any thoughts on the use of a
> digital camera and feasability of using one to get respectable prints
> up to 13x19.

There are some point and shoot digicams in the 8MP range that are pretty
good, but they're on the noisy side, which is why I gave up on them and
switched to DSLRs. If you're not looking for absolute minimum size, I'd
recommend a Canon 20D, the 28-135mm IS lens, and whatever accessories you
need. I use the 10D and D60 myself, and have several Canon lenses, but I
travel by car. The 28-135 isn't quite as good as their L series, but it's a
great traveling lens, and the image stabilizer eliminates the need for a
tripod in most situations. The 20D resolution will give you 195 pixels per
inch at 12x18, which for real-world images is approaching the sharpness
limits of an inkjet printer.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-08 by steveabrink

I've traveled all over the western US on a BMW GS1100 with a Mamiya 
7ii and 2-3 lenses ...  This can fit in smallish bag that I put into 
one of my panniers. The quality is just awesome when teamed together 
with a dedicated medium format scanner -- I have a Microtek 120tf w/ 
Silverfast Ai... Good enough for tack sharp 20x24's. You can find 
both on Ebay and save a lot of $$.  Motorcyling and photogaphy at 
least for me is damn near heaven...  
SteveB  

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul D. 
DeRocco" <pderocco@i...> wrote:
> > From: stasunas [mailto:Astasunas@a...]
> >
> > It has been a while since I have been out taking photos. Most of 
my
> > experience has been with a 4x5 and primarily interested in
> > landscapes, scanning the film and then printing them digitally 
with
> > varoius B&W inks and processes. I am going to be going on a sevral
> > month journey to take pictures, but on a motorcycle. This mode of
> > transportation has me rethinking my equipment. I an thinking of
> > taking a digital camera in lieu of my bulky 4x5. I am concerned 
about
> > image quality and size and am aware that I will loose some 
important
> > camera controls. I would appreciate any thoughts on the use of a
> > digital camera and feasability of using one to get respectable 
prints
> > up to 13x19.
> 
> There are some point and shoot digicams in the 8MP range that are 
pretty
> good, but they're on the noisy side, which is why I gave up on them 
and
> switched to DSLRs. If you're not looking for absolute minimum size, 
I'd
> recommend a Canon 20D, the 28-135mm IS lens, and whatever 
accessories you
> need. I use the 10D and D60 myself, and have several Canon lenses, 
but I
> travel by car. The 28-135 isn't quite as good as their L series, 
but it's a
> great traveling lens, and the image stabilizer eliminates the need 
for a
> tripod in most situations. The 20D resolution will give you 195 
pixels per
> inch at 12x18, which for real-world images is approaching the 
sharpness
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> limits of an inkjet printer.
> 
> --
> 
> Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
> Paul                mailto:pderocco@i...

Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-08 by Alan.Huntley@cox.net

Hi Tony,

You don't necessarily have to give up 4x5 for to get lightweight portable equipment. Check out the Toho 4x5 at badgergraphic.com. And, that's NOT a typo...I don't mean Toyo. The Toho is a featherweight monorail easily allowing use of lenses to 300mm (non-telephoto.) Even the Fuji 450C can be used with minor adaptation. With a couple of easy user mods, it weighs in at about 2.7 lbs. Surprisingly, it's amazingly rigid, too, once all the controls are locked down.

Throw in a Kodak or Fuji holder with a few boxes of readyload film and you're good to go.

Good luck,
Alan Huntley
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> From: "stasunas" <Astasunas@...>
> Date: 2004/12/07 Tue PM 09:49:38 EST
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Digital Camera
> 
> 
> 
> It has been a while since I have been out taking photos. Most of my 
> experience has been with a 4x5 and primarily interested in 
> landscapes, scanning the film and then printing them digitally with 
> varoius B&W inks and processes. I am going to be going on a sevral 
> month journey to take pictures, but on a motorcycle. This mode of 
> transportation has me rethinking my equipment. I an thinking of 
> taking a digital camera in lieu of my bulky 4x5. I am concerned about 
> image quality and size and am aware that I will loose some important 
> camera controls. I would appreciate any thoughts on the use of a 
> digital camera and feasability of using one to get respectable prints 
> up to 13x19. 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Tony

Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-08 by sinwen

You can also go to see this :

http://www.fotomancamera.com/

Michel
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alan.Huntley@... 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 3:50 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera


  Hi Tony,

  You don't necessarily have to give up 4x5 for to get lightweight portable equipment. Check out the Toho 4x5 at badgergraphic.com. And, that's NOT a typo...I don't mean Toyo. The Toho is a featherweight monorail easily allowing use of lenses to 300mm (non-telephoto.) Even the Fuji 450C can be used with minor adaptation. With a couple of easy user mods, it weighs in at about 2.7 lbs. Surprisingly, it's amazingly rigid, too, once all the controls are locked down.

  Throw in a Kodak or Fuji holder with a few boxes of readyload film and you're good to go.

  Good luck,
  Alan Huntley

  > 
  >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-08 by Hogarth Hughes

I can second that. I use a Toho that I've modified a bit (added levels, 
replaced the tripod adapter with an Arca-Swiss quick release plate). In 
this guise, it's one of the lightest weight large format cameras 
available. That it has full movements at both ends is a major plus.

I backpack with it in the mountains. I can carry it, four lenses, 12 
film holders, a Gitzo tripod, Arca-Swiss B1 head, and all the misc. 
filters, light meter, dark cloth, etc. The whole kit, including the 
pack, weighs in at about 13.5 Kg (just under 30 pounds).

For an independent review of the Toho, look here:

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm

You can get them from Badger Graphics, amoung other places:

http://www.badgergraphic.com/search_product2.asp?x=1031

Don't let the picture throw you - you can get the standards in a bunch 
of different colors, but the only thing anyone stocks is black, of course...

Hogarth Hughes


Alan.Huntley@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi Tony,
>
> You don't necessarily have to give up 4x5 for to get lightweight 
> portable equipment. Check out the Toho 4x5 at badgergraphic.com. And, 
> that's NOT a typo...I don't mean Toyo. The Toho is a featherweight 
> monorail easily allowing use of lenses to 300mm (non-telephoto.) Even 
> the Fuji 450C can be used with minor adaptation. With a couple of easy 
> user mods, it weighs in at about 2.7 lbs. Surprisingly, it's amazingly 
> rigid, too, once all the controls are locked down.
>
> Throw in a Kodak or Fuji holder with a few boxes of readyload film and 
> you're good to go.
>
> Good luck,
> Alan Huntley
>
> >
> > From: "stasunas" <Astasunas@...>
> > Date: 2004/12/07 Tue PM 09:49:38 EST
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Digital Camera
> >
> >
> >
> > It has been a while since I have been out taking photos. Most of my
> > experience has been with a 4x5 and primarily interested in
> > landscapes, scanning the film and then printing them digitally with
> > varoius B&W inks and processes. I am going to be going on a sevral
> > month journey to take pictures, but on a motorcycle. This mode of
> > transportation has me rethinking my equipment. I an thinking of
> > taking a digital camera in lieu of my bulky 4x5. I am concerned about
> > image quality and size and am aware that I will loose some important
> > camera controls. I would appreciate any thoughts on the use of a
> > digital camera and feasability of using one to get respectable prints
> > up to 13x19.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Tony
>
>
>
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Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-08 by Tom Baker

Using a good view camera is a real joy.  And a 1Ds setup may weigh as much, or more than the light 4x5's.  However, for traveling where you can't easily handle film processing, digital really shines.
 
Tom Baker





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-09 by The Wogster

Tom Baker wrote:
> Using a good view camera is a real joy.  And a 1Ds setup may weigh as much, or more than the light 4x5's.  However, for traveling where you can't easily handle film processing, digital really shines.
>  

However digital has another problem, which can be even greater.  I can 
always take unprocessed, but exposed film, and ship it home.  Couriers 
all over the world can handle this, especially if the box is marked, in 
the official language of the country your shipping from, as exposed 
photographic film, and to not open the film box, except under light free 
conditions.   Declare it using the proper customs forms, and send via 
courier or express mail (with a tracking number).  It's also not hard to 
take a 5x7 colour paper processing tube, and pick up some chemistries, 
load the tube in a changing bag, and process as you go, in country, then 
ship the negatives home.

With digital you need to either have a computer, or one of those 
download-to-CD machines with you, or you need to carry a lot of memory 
cards.  Then you need power, while North Americans enjoy relatively 
clean, trouble free power and Western Europe is just as good.  In many 
other countries, power that varies wildly in quality and quantity, can 
be considered good, because it's better then nothing at all, which is 
what they get most of the time.  Fine for lights, okay for a hair-dryer 
or an electric shaver, but not for a computer or digital camera.

W

Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-09 by Steve Kale

You can't possibly be serious!  A courier can carry a DVD, memory card or
other storage device.  Camera power is an identical issue for both digital
and analogue cameras.  Digital storage devices don't necessarily need power
- some do some don't - your choice.  As for processing on the road, digital
is way ahead - ask ANY photographer who deals in time sensitive imagery.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: The Wogster <wogsterca@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:15:04 -0500
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera
> 
> 
> Tom Baker wrote:
>> Using a good view camera is a real joy.  And a 1Ds setup may weigh as much,
>> or more than the light 4x5's.  However, for traveling where you can't easily
>> handle film processing, digital really shines.
>>  
> 
> However digital has another problem, which can be even greater.  I can
> always take unprocessed, but exposed film, and ship it home.  Couriers
> all over the world can handle this, especially if the box is marked, in
> the official language of the country your shipping from, as exposed
> photographic film, and to not open the film box, except under light free
> conditions.   Declare it using the proper customs forms, and send via
> courier or express mail (with a tracking number).  It's also not hard to
> take a 5x7 colour paper processing tube, and pick up some chemistries,
> load the tube in a changing bag, and process as you go, in country, then
> ship the negatives home.
> 
> With digital you need to either have a computer, or one of those
> download-to-CD machines with you, or you need to carry a lot of memory
> cards.  Then you need power, while North Americans enjoy relatively
> clean, trouble free power and Western Europe is just as good.  In many
> other countries, power that varies wildly in quality and quantity, can
> be considered good, because it's better then nothing at all, which is
> what they get most of the time.  Fine for lights, okay for a hair-dryer
> or an electric shaver, but not for a computer or digital camera.
> 
> W
>

Re: Digital Camera

2004-12-09 by sandersm@aol.com

In a message dated 12/9/04 10:53:01 AM, Steve Kale writes:


> You can't possibly be serious!  A courier can carry a DVD, memory card or
> other storage device.  Camera power is an identical issue for both digital
> and analogue cameras. 
> 

I will not buy or shoot a camera that requires electricity.   Rolleiflex, 
Graflex, Sinar.   Camera power is provided my dry bony fingers.

Sanders McNew
www.mcnew.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-09 by The Wogster

Steve Kale wrote:
> You can't possibly be serious!  A courier can carry a DVD, memory card or
> other storage device.  Camera power is an identical issue for both digital
> and analogue cameras.  Digital storage devices don't necessarily need power
> - some do some don't - your choice.  As for processing on the road, digital
> is way ahead - ask ANY photographer who deals in time sensitive imagery.
> 

Show me a digital storage device that doesn't need some kind of power 
source, either plugin or battery?  If it uses a standard AA or AAA 
battery, those should be easily obtained anywhere, however, how common 
do you think a CX-762 battery is in rural Bolivia?  As for film cameras, 
I do not know of any 4x5 view camera that needs any kind of battery. 
Hand held meter, with a dead battery, there is always Sunny-16!

W
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>>Tom Baker wrote:
>>
>>>Using a good view camera is a real joy.  And a 1Ds setup may weigh as much,
>>>or more than the light 4x5's.  However, for traveling where you can't easily
>>>handle film processing, digital really shines.
>>> 
>>
>>However digital has another problem, which can be even greater.  I can
>>always take unprocessed, but exposed film, and ship it home.  Couriers
>>all over the world can handle this, especially if the box is marked, in
>>the official language of the country your shipping from, as exposed
>>photographic film, and to not open the film box, except under light free
>>conditions.   Declare it using the proper customs forms, and send via
>>courier or express mail (with a tracking number).  It's also not hard to
>>take a 5x7 colour paper processing tube, and pick up some chemistries,
>>load the tube in a changing bag, and process as you go, in country, then
>>ship the negatives home.
>>
>>With digital you need to either have a computer, or one of those
>>download-to-CD machines with you, or you need to carry a lot of memory
>>cards.  Then you need power, while North Americans enjoy relatively
>>clean, trouble free power and Western Europe is just as good.  In many
>>other countries, power that varies wildly in quality and quantity, can
>>be considered good, because it's better then nothing at all, which is
>>what they get most of the time.  Fine for lights, okay for a hair-dryer
>>or an electric shaver, but not for a computer or digital camera.
>>

Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-09 by Steve Kale

Oh I get it - that's why wildlife photographers on shoots in rural Bolivia
only carry 4x5 view cameras...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: The Wogster <wogsterca@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:11:05 -0500
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera
> 
> 
> Steve Kale wrote:
>> You can't possibly be serious!  A courier can carry a DVD, memory card or
>> other storage device.  Camera power is an identical issue for both digital
>> and analogue cameras.  Digital storage devices don't necessarily need power
>> - some do some don't - your choice.  As for processing on the road, digital
>> is way ahead - ask ANY photographer who deals in time sensitive imagery.
>> 
> 
> Show me a digital storage device that doesn't need some kind of power
> source, either plugin or battery?  If it uses a standard AA or AAA
> battery, those should be easily obtained anywhere, however, how common
> do you think a CX-762 battery is in rural Bolivia?  As for film cameras,
> I do not know of any 4x5 view camera that needs any kind of battery.
> Hand held meter, with a dead battery, there is always Sunny-16!
> 
> W

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Camera

2004-12-09 by Steve Kale

And that in turn will define in the end the sort of photography you can
do... Have fun.  By the way do you own anything electrical? <g>
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: <sandersm@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:10:10 EST
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Camera
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 12/9/04 10:53:01 AM, Steve Kale writes:
> 
> 
>> You can't possibly be serious!  A courier can carry a DVD, memory card or
>> other storage device.  Camera power is an identical issue for both digital
>> and analogue cameras. 
>> 
> 
> I will not buy or shoot a camera that requires electricity.   Rolleiflex,
> Graflex, Sinar.   Camera power is provided my dry bony fingers.
> 
> Sanders McNew
> www.mcnew.net

RE: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-09 by Stephen Billard

Since you asked. A compact Flash Card. Maybe not the capacity you were
thinking of, but doesn't need batteries to keep the data. (Of course, your
digital camera needs batteries. But then so do a lot of film cameras.)

-Stephen
 www.sbillard.org/Stephen
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Wogster [mailto:wogsterca@...] 
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:11 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera
> 
>
> 
> Show me a digital storage device that doesn't need some kind of power 
> source, either plugin or battery?

[Digital BW] Re: Digital Camera

2004-12-09 by sandersnyc

Steve, I appreciate you are writing for entertainment value here. 
But to answer you:  Actually, yes, I have a great deal of fun.  

Every tool -- and a camera in the end is a tool -- every tool imposes
its own limitations.  In my view of the world, having a tool that is
self-sufficient is
liberating in many more ways than it is limiting.  And as a creative
device, the flexibility
offered by a view camera cannot be touched by a digital camera. 
Imitated, yes, but not touched.

Ultimately, every person has to weigh the tools available and choose
one that best fits his or her creative vision. I choose a world
without electrical cameras.  Why does that bother you?

True story number one:  I shoot Polaroid emulsions with hotlights,
through a 95-year-old 
Dagor lens, with the aperture wide open.  When my model is turned
away from the camera, 
I swing the front standard to bring the focal plane parallel to her
face.  This has the effect 
of keeping her face in perfect focus, but blurring other parts of
her.  For a sample 
(contains nudity) see www.pbase.com/sandersm/image/36078782 .   I
have 
received several emails from digital shooters, asking me how I
blurred the image in 
Photoshop.

True story number two:  Several people, who have seen my work, have
written to 
compliment it, with the caveat that they wish I would stop adding
those silly Photoshop 
borders into my images.  That's when I have to tell them that it's
not a PS
effect, but the actual emulsion of the film itself, that the PS
effects were designed to
imitate.

What this tell me is that I am so old that the people now getting
digital cameras and 
calling themselves photographers find film such a remote part of the
past as to be 
completely beyond their comprehension.

But I digress.  Granted, Steve, I cannot do many of the things you
can do with your electric 
cameras.  But there is no way on God's earth you could make my
images, either.  And it's 
just as well that way.

Sanders McNew
www.mcnew.net

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> 
wrote:
> And that in turn will define in the end the sort of photography you
can
> do... Have fun.  By the way do you own anything electrical? <g>
> 
> 
> > From: <sandersm@a...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:10:10 EST
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Camera
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > In a message dated 12/9/04 10:53:01 AM, Steve Kale writes:
> > 
> > 
> >> You can't possibly be serious!  A courier can carry a DVD,
memory card or
> >> other storage device.  Camera power is an identical issue for
both digital
> >> and analogue cameras. 
> >> 
> > 
> > I will not buy or shoot a camera that requires electricity.  
Rolleiflex,
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > Graflex, Sinar.   Camera power is provided my dry bony fingers.
> > 
> > Sanders McNew
> > www.mcnew.net

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Camera

2004-12-09 by Steve Kale

It doesn't bother me and I am sure your images are amazing.  I was simply
responding to someone who was slandering digital because it needed
electricity.  Different tools for different jobs - some tools have broader
application capabilities than others.  The type or breadth of tools you have
will define the type of work you are able to do.  Simple fact.  I wish I
also had a view camera but 5 cameras is enough for now....
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: sandersnyc <sandersm@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 23:28:41 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Camera
> 
> 
> 
> Steve, I appreciate you are writing for entertainment value here.
> But to answer you:  Actually, yes, I have a great deal of fun.
> 
> Every tool -- and a camera in the end is a tool -- every tool imposes
> its own limitations.  In my view of the world, having a tool that is
> self-sufficient is
> liberating in many more ways than it is limiting.  And as a creative
> device, the flexibility
> offered by a view camera cannot be touched by a digital camera.
> Imitated, yes, but not touched.
> 
> Ultimately, every person has to weigh the tools available and choose
> one that best fits his or her creative vision. I choose a world
> without electrical cameras.  Why does that bother you?
> 
> True story number one:  I shoot Polaroid emulsions with hotlights,
> through a 95-year-old
> Dagor lens, with the aperture wide open.  When my model is turned
> away from the camera,
> I swing the front standard to bring the focal plane parallel to her
> face.  This has the effect
> of keeping her face in perfect focus, but blurring other parts of
> her.  For a sample
> (contains nudity) see www.pbase.com/sandersm/image/36078782 .   I
> have 
> received several emails from digital shooters, asking me how I
> blurred the image in
> Photoshop.
> 
> True story number two:  Several people, who have seen my work, have
> written to 
> compliment it, with the caveat that they wish I would stop adding
> those silly Photoshop
> borders into my images.  That's when I have to tell them that it's
> not a PS
> effect, but the actual emulsion of the film itself, that the PS
> effects were designed to
> imitate.
> 
> What this tell me is that I am so old that the people now getting
> digital cameras and
> calling themselves photographers find film such a remote part of the
> past as to be 
> completely beyond their comprehension.
> 
> But I digress.  Granted, Steve, I cannot do many of the things you
> can do with your electric
> cameras.  But there is no way on God's earth you could make my
> images, either.  And it's
> just as well that way.
> 
> Sanders McNew
> www.mcnew.net
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> 
> wrote:
>> And that in turn will define in the end the sort of photography you
> can
>> do... Have fun.  By the way do you own anything electrical? <g>
>> 
>> 
>>> From: <sandersm@a...>
>>> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>>> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:10:10 EST
>>> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>>> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Camera
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In a message dated 12/9/04 10:53:01 AM, Steve Kale writes:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> You can't possibly be serious!  A courier can carry a DVD,
> memory card or
>>>> other storage device.  Camera power is an identical issue for
> both digital
>>>> and analogue cameras. 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I will not buy or shoot a camera that requires electricity.
> Rolleiflex,
>>> Graflex, Sinar.   Camera power is provided my dry bony fingers.
>>> 
>>> Sanders McNew
>>> www.mcnew.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See ³Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines² in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
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> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE ³OWNER² AND
> ³MODERATORS² OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  ³OWNER² AND ³MODERATORS² OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>

Re: Digital Camera

2004-12-10 by njfranknj

I guess, Sanders, that you are unfamiliar with tilt/shift lenses for
35mm cameras. As an ex-Canham 5x7, ex-Canon 35mm and current Pentax 67
shooter, I can assure you that there is very little that can't be done
with any format. All photography involves a succession of trade-offs
and camera format is just another one. 35mm and, by extension, the
digital cameras that use full-frame sensors and the full range of
lenses are the most versatile systems going, whatever you can do, they
can do, just apply money.

Frank

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sandersnyc"
<sandersm@a...> wrote:
[SNIP]
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> But I digress.  Granted, Steve, I cannot do many of the things you
> can do with your electric 
> cameras.  But there is no way on God's earth you could make my
> images, either.  And it's 
> just as well that way.
> 
> Sanders McNew
> www.mcnew.net

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Camera

2004-12-10 by steve_bye

Wow, you have great images on your website.

Steve Bye
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "sandersnyc" <sandersm@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:28 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Camera




Steve, I appreciate you are writing for entertainment value here.
But to answer you:  Actually, yes, I have a great deal of fun.

Every tool -- and a camera in the end is a tool -- every tool imposes
its own limitations.  In my view of the world, having a tool that is
self-sufficient is
liberating in many more ways than it is limiting.  And as a creative
device, the flexibility
offered by a view camera cannot be touched by a digital camera.
Imitated, yes, but not touched.

Ultimately, every person has to weigh the tools available and choose
one that best fits his or her creative vision. I choose a world
without electrical cameras.  Why does that bother you?

True story number one:  I shoot Polaroid emulsions with hotlights,
through a 95-year-old
Dagor lens, with the aperture wide open.  When my model is turned
away from the camera,
I swing the front standard to bring the focal plane parallel to her
face.  This has the effect
of keeping her face in perfect focus, but blurring other parts of
her.  For a sample
(contains nudity) see www.pbase.com/sandersm/image/36078782 .   I
have
received several emails from digital shooters, asking me how I
blurred the image in
Photoshop.

True story number two:  Several people, who have seen my work, have
written to
compliment it, with the caveat that they wish I would stop adding
those silly Photoshop
borders into my images.  That's when I have to tell them that it's
not a PS
effect, but the actual emulsion of the film itself, that the PS
effects were designed to
imitate.

What this tell me is that I am so old that the people now getting
digital cameras and
calling themselves photographers find film such a remote part of the
past as to be
completely beyond their comprehension.

But I digress.  Granted, Steve, I cannot do many of the things you
can do with your electric
cameras.  But there is no way on God's earth you could make my
images, either.  And it's
just as well that way.

Sanders McNew
www.mcnew.net

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...>
wrote:
> And that in turn will define in the end the sort of photography you
can
> do... Have fun.  By the way do you own anything electrical? <g>
>
>
> > From: <sandersm@a...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:10:10 EST
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Camera
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 12/9/04 10:53:01 AM, Steve Kale writes:
> >
> >
> >> You can't possibly be serious! A courier can carry a DVD,
memory card or
> >> other storage device. Camera power is an identical issue for
both digital
> >> and analogue cameras.
> >>
> >
> > I will not buy or shoot a camera that requires electricity.
Rolleiflex,
> > Graflex, Sinar.   Camera power is provided my dry bony fingers.
> >
> > Sanders McNew
> > www.mcnew.net






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: Digital Camera

2004-12-10 by Clayton Jones

Oh, goodness!  Must we have a film vs digital debate on this forum? 
As if there haven't been thirty five gazillion of them already
somewhere on the web...

Please, folks, take a deep breath and let go of it.  Let's all use
some discipline and judgement and keep things printing related and not
argumentative.  

The "Digital Camera Again" thread may seem similar, but it's not
really - it is related to digital printing and is not an argument. 
Slight OT discussions are sometimes interesting and helpful, but these
age old debates are incredibly tiresome.  

Thanks very much.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-10 by Bob Frost

I don't think the problem is as bad as you make out. You can download your 
cards to a Flashtrax, Imagebank, Xdrive, etc, gadget (with 20-80GB disks) 
while running on their batteries. Then you switch the thing off and recharge 
the batteries, either from the mains using a TravelSmart plug adapter which 
has surge-protection built in, or from a car. You really need two of these 
things in case of disaster striking one. I've just come back from Thailand 
with 5000 images (30GB) on a Phototainer(Flashtrax), backed up on an Xdrive. 
No problems. I left my laptop at home - too heavy.

Bob Frost.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Wogster" <wogsterca@...>

With digital you need to either have a computer, or one of those
download-to-CD machines with you, or you need to carry a lot of memory
cards.  Then you need power, while North Americans enjoy relatively
clean, trouble free power and Western Europe is just as good.  In many
other countries, power that varies wildly in quality and quantity, can
be considered good, because it's better then nothing at all, which is
what they get most of the time.  Fine for lights, okay for a hair-dryer
or an electric shaver, but not for a computer or digital camera.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Camera

2004-12-10 by Bob Frost

Sanders,

I think you can buy a wind-up recharger for batteries - finger power!

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <sandersm@...>
> 

I will not buy or shoot a camera that requires electricity.   Rolleiflex, 
Graflex, Sinar.   Camera power is provided my dry bony fingers.

Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-10 by Bob Frost

W,

Try an Xdrive. Built-in Li-ion battery, but can also be powered by an AA 
batterypack. My D100 camera can take AA batteries as well as its 
rechargeable. You just have to be choosy about what you buy. If you know you 
are going to need some CX-762 batteries in the middle of Bolivia, you take 
them with you. Just as you take your films that you aren't going to be able 
to buy there. Try buying Provia 100F in rural Bolivia!

Remember the dinosaurs.

Bob Frost.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Wogster" <wogsterca@...>
>

Show me a digital storage device that doesn't need some kind of power
source, either plugin or battery?  If it uses a standard AA or AAA
battery, those should be easily obtained anywhere, however, how common
do you think a CX-762 battery is in rural Bolivia?  As for film cameras,
I do not know of any 4x5 view camera that needs any kind of battery.
Hand held meter, with a dead battery, there is always Sunny-16!

Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-10 by The Wogster

Bob Frost wrote:
> W,
> 
> Try an Xdrive. Built-in Li-ion battery, but can also be powered by an AA 
> batterypack. My D100 camera can take AA batteries as well as its 
> rechargeable. You just have to be choosy about what you buy. If you know you 
> are going to need some CX-762 batteries in the middle of Bolivia, you take 
> them with you. Just as you take your films that you aren't going to be able 
> to buy there. Try buying Provia 100F in rural Bolivia!

Very true, however a lot of people have this digital-solves-all-problems 
attitude, however it adds a few new problems of it's own.  Film is a 
relatively low weight item, batteries are considerably heavier. 
Carrying a couple of bricks of Provia 100F with you, in your pack isn't 
a big issue, carrying 25 batteries may be.  Even for powered film 
cameras, most will get 20-40 36exp rolls out of a battery, and you can 
still get non-powered cameras (particularily in the MF and LF worlds).

Second issue, storage, what external forces can affect a full memory 
card, shock (dropping) probably not much, radiation - probably, 
electrical charges and magnetic fields, maybe.  Dampness, also a 
possibility......

W

Re: [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-10 by Roger Howard

On Dec 10, 2004, at 9:11 AM, The Wogster wrote:

>
> Bob Frost wrote:
>> W,
>>
>> Try an Xdrive. Built-in Li-ion battery, but can also be powered by an 
>> AA
>> batterypack. My D100 camera can take AA batteries as well as its
>> rechargeable. You just have to be choosy about what you buy. If you 
>> know you
>> are going to need some CX-762 batteries in the middle of Bolivia, you 
>> take
>> them with you. Just as you take your films that you aren't going to 
>> be able
>> to buy there. Try buying Provia 100F in rural Bolivia!
>
> Very true, however a lot of people have this 
> digital-solves-all-problems
> attitude, however it adds a few new problems of it's own.

Agreed, like any new tool, there are usually tradeoffs. But given the 
incredible battery performance on most modern DSLRs, I tend to think I 
can get more shots on less weight with digital. My 20D with two 
batteries in its grip will shoot anywhere from 400-600 shots at least. 
So you figure, with two sets of batteries, and a few tiny CF cards, 
you're well over 1000 shots before you run out of juice. That's a lot 
of film to be carrying, certainly either way it's a lot of shots.

> Film is a
> relatively low weight item, batteries are considerably heavier.

My batteries aren't much bigger than a roll of 35mm film, and the 
weight isn't significantly different - if I was carrying 30 batteries 
then *maybe* I would care, but given how much performance I can get 
from a small handful of batteries and CF cards, I'm not sure it's an 
issue. So when I run out of juice and can't recharge, I've still shot a 
boatload.

> Carrying a couple of bricks of Provia 100F with you, in your pack isn't
> a big issue, carrying 25 batteries may be.  Even for powered film
> cameras, most will get 20-40 36exp rolls out of a battery, and you can
> still get non-powered cameras (particularily in the MF and LF worlds).

25 batteries is a LOT of shooting... how many shots on a brick of 
Provia 100F?

> Second issue, storage, what external forces can affect a full memory
> card, shock (dropping) probably not much, radiation - probably,
> electrical charges and magnetic fields, maybe.  Dampness, also a
> possibility......

I don't think my CF cards are really any more sensitive in this regard 
than rolls of film. Film you want to keep dry and away from light; CF 
cards you want to keep dry and away from extreme heat. But I've never 
had a problem with radiation or magnetic fields (where are you 
travelling!?). And dampness, again like film, it's something you should 
avoid, though a CF card is pretty well sealed against reasonable 
dampness (a little rain isn't gonna hurt - anything more and you should 
probably clean it - I've used distilled water to rinse a card that had 
gotten wet with sea water, and then let air dry, and it worked fine!).

Anyway, I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone to shoot digital or 
not. I'm not exactly Indiana Jones, but I've taken my 10D on trips 
where I didn't have access to power for 6 days, and I survived on my 
normal set of 4 batteries (two in the camera, two in the bag)... the 
bigger problem is memory, but CF memory can store FAR more photos per 
cubic inch than film.

Cheers,

Roger

solar powered backpack- was [Digital BW] Digital Camera

2004-12-18 by weareallsosmall

Sorry to bring up an "old" thread but I found this today and thought
it may be of some interest:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/12/16/solar.backpack/index.html

The article doesn't say whether it will charge a digicam, but who
knows, maybe a future version will. 

A cool idea anyway.
 john

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.