Digital BW, The Print

I'm new to QTR and am using v2.1b and the QTRgui interface on a 
windows XP machine with a 2200.  I'm using Epson mk inks for now.

I just printed an image on 13 X 19 EpEnhMatte paper using the 
UC_EEnhMatte-warm tone curve, with ink limit slider set to 20 to 
deepen the shadows a little bit.  I used 1440dpi and "better" 
settings.  In the setup I fed the paper narrow edge first, but told 
QTR it was landscape so I could print on half a sheet (image size was 
8X10).

This is a portrait of a small boy with light features against a black 
background.  In PS, the blacks are totally black (100K) and I saved 
the file as a grayscale TIFF with embedded gamma 2.2 profile and 
without LZW compression.

When it printed, I saw noticeable banding in the solid black area 
(pure black to perhaps zone 4 or 5).  The bands are not totally even 
in width and are about 1/2" wide, fading in and out, almost like 
venetian blinds out of focus way in the background.  It is not 
clogged nozzles, and besides, the banding is parallel to the long 
edge (opposite of the travel of the rails the ink cartridges are 
mounted to).  I checked the image in PS and the info palette shows 
the entire area measures 100K.  As a reality check, I printed the 
Image using ImagePrint and there was absolutely no banding.  

I'm a little stumped.  I love the quality of the image printed with 
QTR, with the exception of the banding.  The banding only shows up in 
the solid black areas, not on the child's face, hair or clothing.  I 
printed it a second time and got the exact same pattern in the exact 
same locations.  I even shut of my computer and cold booted it and 
the printer to be sure something wasn't corrupted.  

Any thoughts?  It wouldn't be 1440 dpi instead of 2880 would it?  I 
really love this product and would like to get it working.

Thanks,  Lou

This is a known problem.  Try adding some noise to the background.

> From: ldina <lbdina@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:40:19 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] QTR - Weird "Banding" Problem
> 
> 
> 
> I'm new to QTR and am using v2.1b and the QTRgui interface on a
> windows XP machine with a 2200.  I'm using Epson mk inks for now.
> 
> I just printed an image on 13 X 19 EpEnhMatte paper using the
> UC_EEnhMatte-warm tone curve, with ink limit slider set to 20 to
> deepen the shadows a little bit.  I used 1440dpi and "better"
> settings.  In the setup I fed the paper narrow edge first, but told
> QTR it was landscape so I could print on half a sheet (image size was
> 8X10).
> 
> This is a portrait of a small boy with light features against a black
> background.  In PS, the blacks are totally black (100K) and I saved
> the file as a grayscale TIFF with embedded gamma 2.2 profile and
> without LZW compression.
> 
> When it printed, I saw noticeable banding in the solid black area
> (pure black to perhaps zone 4 or 5).  The bands are not totally even
> in width and are about 1/2" wide, fading in and out, almost like
> venetian blinds out of focus way in the background.  It is not
> clogged nozzles, and besides, the banding is parallel to the long
> edge (opposite of the travel of the rails the ink cartridges are
> mounted to).  I checked the image in PS and the info palette shows
> the entire area measures 100K.  As a reality check, I printed the
> Image using ImagePrint and there was absolutely no banding.
> 
> I'm a little stumped.  I love the quality of the image printed with
> QTR, with the exception of the banding.  The banding only shows up in
> the solid black areas, not on the child's face, hair or clothing.  I
> printed it a second time and got the exact same pattern in the exact
> same locations.  I even shut of my computer and cold booted it and
> the printer to be sure something wasn't corrupted.
> 
> Any thoughts?  It wouldn't be 1440 dpi instead of 2880 would it?  I
> really love this product and would like to get it working.
> 
> Thanks,  Lou

I have this situation on a 9600 with matte fine art paper.  I'm using Epson
photo black ink (which I don't think makes a difference).  Where there are
areas of heavy black ink this "banding" occurs with the bands running in the
direction of the paper travel.  It is most evident with side lighting of the
new print.  I've come to the conclusion (and others have agreed) that it
basically paper pucker from so much wetness.  After it dries and the paper
flattens, it is usually totally gone or only very slightly evident.  Also
once a print is coated or framed under glass the "bands" are not evident.
The next time I get it I'm going to try ironing the print on the back side
in that area after it dries for a day or so and see what that does... 

 

Ed Mertz 

 

When it printed, I saw noticeable banding in the solid black area 
(pure black to perhaps zone 4 or 5).  The bands are not totally even 
in width and are about 1/2" wide, fading in and out, almost like 
venetian blinds out of focus way in the background.  It is not 
clogged nozzles, and besides, the banding is parallel to the long 
edge (opposite of the travel of the rails the ink cartridges are 
mounted to).  I checked the image in PS and the info palette shows 
the entire area measures 100K.  As a reality check, I printed the 
Image using ImagePrint and there was absolutely no banding.  


Thanks,  Lou










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The issue is the way Gimp does the dither/weave for the 2100/2200 (and maybe
there is an issue with the 9600 also).  The long term solution is for Roy to
write the dither code himself.  In the short term, adding some noise to the
background often helps.

> From: Ed Mertz <edmertz@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 10:52:03 -0700
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] QTR - Weird "Banding" Problem
> 
> 
> 
> I have this situation on a 9600 with matte fine art paper.  I'm using Epson
> photo black ink (which I don't think makes a difference).  Where there are
> areas of heavy black ink this "banding" occurs with the bands running in the
> direction of the paper travel.  It is most evident with side lighting of the
> new print.  I've come to the conclusion (and others have agreed) that it
> basically paper pucker from so much wetness.  After it dries and the paper
> flattens, it is usually totally gone or only very slightly evident.  Also
> once a print is coated or framed under glass the "bands" are not evident.
> The next time I get it I'm going to try ironing the print on the back side
> in that area after it dries for a day or so and see what that does...
> 
>  
> 
> Ed Mertz 
> 
>  
> 
> When it printed, I saw noticeable banding in the solid black area
> (pure black to perhaps zone 4 or 5).  The bands are not totally even
> in width and are about 1/2" wide, fading in and out, almost like
> venetian blinds out of focus way in the background.  It is not
> clogged nozzles, and besides, the banding is parallel to the long
> edge (opposite of the travel of the rails the ink cartridges are
> mounted to).  I checked the image in PS and the info palette shows
> the entire area measures 100K.  As a reality check, I printed the
> Image using ImagePrint and there was absolutely no banding.
> 
> 
> Thanks,  Lou
> 
> 
>

Ed/Steve:

Thanks for the quick responses.  I'd be surprised if these bands go 
away completely, even if I let the print dry in the Mojave desert for 
a month!  But, I will watch it just the same.  I may try adding some 
noise.  

I hope it gets corrected, because I love the product otherwise.

Regards, Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> The issue is the way Gimp does the dither/weave for the 2100/2200 
(and maybe
> there is an issue with the 9600 also).  The long term solution is 
for Roy to
> write the dither code himself.  In the short term, adding some 
noise to the
> background often helps.
> 
> 
> > From: Ed Mertz <edmertz@e...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 10:52:03 -0700
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Digital BW] QTR - Weird "Banding" Problem
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I have this situation on a 9600 with matte fine art paper.  I'm 
using Epson
> > photo black ink (which I don't think makes a difference).  Where 
there are
> > areas of heavy black ink this "banding" occurs with the bands 
running in the
> > direction of the paper travel.  It is most evident with side 
lighting of the
> > new print.  I've come to the conclusion (and others have agreed) 
that it
> > basically paper pucker from so much wetness.  After it dries and 
the paper
> > flattens, it is usually totally gone or only very slightly 
evident.  Also
> > once a print is coated or framed under glass the "bands" are not 
evident.
> > The next time I get it I'm going to try ironing the print on the 
back side
> > in that area after it dries for a day or so and see what that 
does...
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Ed Mertz 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > When it printed, I saw noticeable banding in the solid black area
> > (pure black to perhaps zone 4 or 5).  The bands are not totally 
even

> > in width and are about 1/2" wide, fading in and out, almost like
> > venetian blinds out of focus way in the background.  It is not
> > clogged nozzles, and besides, the banding is parallel to the long
> > edge (opposite of the travel of the rails the ink cartridges are
> > mounted to).  I checked the image in PS and the info palette shows
> > the entire area measures 100K.  As a reality check, I printed the
> > Image using ImagePrint and there was absolutely no banding.
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks,  Lou
> > 
> > 
> >

I can show you prints that have dried for several months and I am afraid it
is still there.  Just select the 100% K areas and add a little noise (2%)
and try that.

> From: ldina <lbdina@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:55:11 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QTR - Weird "Banding" Problem
> 
> 
> 
> Ed/Steve:
> 
> Thanks for the quick responses.  I'd be surprised if these bands go
> away completely, even if I let the print dry in the Mojave desert for
> a month!  But, I will watch it just the same.  I may try adding some
> noise.  
> 
> I hope it gets corrected, because I love the product otherwise.
> 
> Regards, Lou

I've had this same problem with my 2200 and 100% black grounds. 
Adding noise helps but does not remedy the problem entirely. 
Hopefully, Roy's working on a dither fix....
BJM

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ldina" 
<lbdina@c...> wrote:
> 
> I'm new to QTR and am using v2.1b and the QTRgui interface on a 
> windows XP machine with a 2200.  I'm using Epson mk inks for now.
> 
> I just printed an image on 13 X 19 EpEnhMatte paper using the 
> UC_EEnhMatte-warm tone curve, with ink limit slider set to 20 to 
> deepen the shadows a little bit.  I used 1440dpi and "better" 
> settings.  In the setup I fed the paper narrow edge first, but 
told 
> QTR it was landscape so I could print on half a sheet (image size 
was 
> 8X10).
> 
> This is a portrait of a small boy with light features against a 
black 
> background.  In PS, the blacks are totally black (100K) and I 
saved 
> the file as a grayscale TIFF with embedded gamma 2.2 profile and 
> without LZW compression.
> 
> When it printed, I saw noticeable banding in the solid black area 
> (pure black to perhaps zone 4 or 5).  The bands are not totally 
even 
> in width and are about 1/2" wide, fading in and out, almost like 
> venetian blinds out of focus way in the background.  It is not 
> clogged nozzles, and besides, the banding is parallel to the long 
> edge (opposite of the travel of the rails the ink cartridges are 
> mounted to).  I checked the image in PS and the info palette shows 
> the entire area measures 100K.  As a reality check, I printed the 
> Image using ImagePrint and there was absolutely no banding.  
> 
> I'm a little stumped.  I love the quality of the image printed 
with 
> QTR, with the exception of the banding.  The banding only shows up 
in 
> the solid black areas, not on the child's face, hair or clothing.  
I 
> printed it a second time and got the exact same pattern in the 
exact 
> same locations.  I even shut of my computer and cold booted it and 
> the printer to be sure something wasn't corrupted.  
> 
> Any thoughts?  It wouldn't be 1440 dpi instead of 2880 would it?  
I 

> really love this product and would like to get it working.
> 
> Thanks,  Lou

Steve,

Thanks for the suggestion.  I added 3% noise to the shadows and it 
worked like magic.  The banding in the pure black areas completely 
disappeared and isn't visible even under close scrutiny.  

Thanks, Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> 
> I can show you prints that have dried for several months and I am 
afraid it
> is still there.  Just select the 100% K areas and add a little 
noise (2%)
> and try that.
> 
> > From: ldina <lbdina@c...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:55:11 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QTR - Weird "Banding" Problem
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Ed/Steve:
> > 
> > Thanks for the quick responses.  I'd be surprised if these bands 
go
> > away completely, even if I let the print dry in the Mojave desert 
for
> > a month!  But, I will watch it just the same.  I may try adding 
some

> > noise.  
> > 
> > I hope it gets corrected, because I love the product otherwise.
> > 
> > Regards, Lou