Digital BW, The Print

I would love to know the consensus on black and white printing a year later....I 
followed this forum about that long ago and decided to buy Lyson Quadtone 
Inks and an Epson 1270 as a second printer. I print mostly portraits on 
watercolor paper. I loved the prints - however, to my horror, I had a client call 
and tell me their prints were fading - not even a year later. So, then I started 
using my Epson 2200 for my black and whites, but then you deal with 
metamarism. THEN, I started printing black only on the 2200 but have some 
banding issues from time to time.

So, I'm back where I started. I would like a simple system to print Black and 
white images and am willing to buy a second printer to do so. Archival quality 
is very important. What is the latest school of thought on the best, long lasting 
black and white prints?

MANY, many thanks,
Lynne Siler
Asheville, NC

here is my little tale of going where you are going........
I gave up on the lysons, because of changing colors after a short 
while, no glossy success no matter what I tried, and the color of the 
neutrals was weird. Then I got the UT2 from mis, read all of paul's 
info, tried every type of paper i could get, which was a lot, and 
settled on Velvet fine art, because of the neutral color, and surface, 
Hanemule photo rag, like everyone else, and the costco glossy, which is 
what gets people to be impressed when they hold a print. I never ever 
have a clog, like i used to with lyson dye inks, and I never think 
about printing any more. I just hit print. (it did take a long to get 
there though :)      I dont use the curves. I just use the sliders, and 
for glossy I use a transfer curve to get the eboni ink out of the way. 
My wife is getting used to all the stuff on the walls.
I say get the UT2 and use them for a few years until the next really 
big improvement comes along.
By the way, half seriously, We need to take up a collection for Mr. 
Roark, or do something extra nice for him. Thanks Paul...Doug M
On Jan 6, 2005, at 11:09 AM, Lynne Siler wrote:

>
>  I would love to know the consensus on black and white printing a year 
> later....I
>  followed this forum about that long ago and decided to buy Lyson 
> Quadtone
>  Inks and an Epson 1270 as a second printer. I print mostly portraits 
> on
>  watercolor paper. I loved the prints - however, to my horror, I had a 
> client call
>  and tell me their prints were fading - not even a year later. So, 
> then I started
>  using my Epson 2200 for my black and whites, but then you deal with
>  metamarism. THEN, I started printing black only on the 2200 but have 
> some
>  banding issues from time to time.
>
>  So, I'm back where I started. I would like a simple system to print 
> Black and
>  white images and am willing to buy a second printer to do so. 
> Archival quality
>  is very important. What is the latest school of thought on the best, 
> long lasting
>  black and white prints?
>
>  MANY, many thanks,
>  Lynne Siler
>  Asheville, NC
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
>  Please follow these basic guidelines:
>  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
>  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
>  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
>  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� 
> AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE� �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> 	� 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
> �
> 	� 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> �
> 	� 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
> Service.
>
>  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Doug,

What printer are you using with the UT2 inks? The idea of simply 
printing what I see on my monitor sounds like a dream,

Lynne

On Jan 6, 2005, at 4:19 PM, Douglas Meeuwsen wrote:

>
> here is my little tale of going where you are going........
> I gave up on the lysons, because of changing colors after a short
> while, no glossy success no matter what I tried, and the color of the
> neutrals was weird. Then I got the UT2 from mis, read all of paul's
> info, tried every type of paper i could get, which was a lot, and
> settled on Velvet fine art, because of the neutral color, and surface,
> Hanemule photo rag, like everyone else, and the costco glossy, which is
> what gets people to be impressed when they hold a print. I never ever
> have a clog, like i used to with lyson dye inks, and I never think
> about printing any more. I just hit print. (it did take a long to get
> there though :)      I dont use the curves. I just use the sliders, and
> for glossy I use a transfer curve to get the eboni ink out of the way.
> My wife is getting used to all the stuff on the walls.
> I say get the UT2 and use them for a few years until the next really
> big improvement comes along.
> By the way, half seriously, We need to take up a collection for Mr.
> Roark, or do something extra nice for him. Thanks Paul...Doug M
> On Jan 6, 2005, at 11:09 AM, Lynne Siler wrote:

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Lynne Siler" 
<lhsiler@b...> wrote:
> 
> I would love to know the consensus on black and white printing a 
year later....I 
> followed this forum about that long ago and decided to buy Lyson 
Quadtone 
> Inks and an Epson 1270 as a second printer. I print mostly 
portraits on 
> watercolor paper. I loved the prints - however, to my horror, I had 
a client call 
> and tell me their prints were fading - not even a year later. So, 
then I started 
> using my Epson 2200 for my black and whites, but then you deal with 
> metamarism. THEN, I started printing black only on the 2200 but 
have some 
> banding issues from time to time.
> 
> So, I'm back where I started. I would like a simple system to print 
Black and 
> white images and am willing to buy a second printer to do so. 
Archival quality 
> is very important. What is the latest school of thought on the 
best, long lasting 
> black and white prints?
> 
> MANY, many thanks,
> Lynne Siler
> Asheville, NC

Use your 2200 with OEM inks and a RIP. I have tried Roys QTR and 
Bowhaus IJC/OPM. Both produce archival, metamarism free B&W prints.
Best papers are matte, though I quite like Ilford Smooth Pearl even 
with the bronzing. I'm currently using the Bowhaus RIP and love the 
simple user interface. OPM for printing is a doddle. IJC for profile 
creation and tweaking is superb. Once I get a densitometer, to 
linearizing the profiles, then the last piece of the jigsaw puzzle 
will be complete. I will then have at long last a trouble free B&W 
solution.

Peter

Don't forget to consider the Epson C84/86 printer with MIS EZ inks.  
These are very inexpensive printers (well under $100 with rebates) and 
very simple inks to use.  I went this route last summer, bought a set of 
neutral and warm carts to begin with, and experimented with combinations 
until I found the one I liked on the paper I used, then set up a CIS and 
have just been printing away ever since.  Lovely results on Epson 
Enhanced Matte.

The printers only go to 8.5 inches wide, though, so if wider is 
necessary you'll have to look elsewhere at the moment (as far as I know 
- anybody know of any wide EZ printers out there yet?)

Cheers,
Kip

Lynne Siler wrote, in part:

>I would love to know the consensus on black and white printing a year later <snip>
>
>So, I'm back where I started. I would like a simple system to print Black and 
>white images and am willing to buy a second printer to do so. Archival quality 
>is very important. What is the latest school of thought on the best, long lasting 
>black and white prints?
>  
>

Lynne,

Since you already own a 2200, you might also want to look at 
ColorByte's ImagePrint RIP.  Not cheap (about $500 for the 2200).  
But it does an incredible job of producing B&W prints (as well as 
color).  I use the Epson Ultrachrome inks on Epson and Hahnemuhle 
paper.  

The biggest problem I had with ImagePrint was installing it.  But v6 
simplifies the install.  I believe you can still get a trial version 
of ImagePrint.

Thomas

Kip,  

The 1280 with UT2 and the 2200 with UT7 have "EZ" modes in that they can
print with just the sliders.  Curves give more control, but sliders can do
an excellent job.  The range of tones the sliders can reach is more limited,
but that can be altered a bit by whether you put the sepia toner in or put a
second light warm (carbon) gray ink in the Y position.  The 2200 makes this
easier to do, but MIS will soon be able to make small runs with the 1280 UT2
carts with this arrangement also.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: Kip Babington [mailto:cbabing3@...] 
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 2:50 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Update on Black and white printing


Don't forget to consider the Epson C84/86 printer with MIS EZ inks.  
These are very inexpensive printers (well under $100 with rebates) and 
very simple inks to use.  I went this route last summer, bought a set of 
neutral and warm carts to begin with, and experimented with combinations 
until I found the one I liked on the paper I used, then set up a CIS and 
have just been printing away ever since.  Lovely results on Epson 
Enhanced Matte.

The printers only go to 8.5 inches wide, though, so if wider is 
necessary you'll have to look elsewhere at the moment (as far as I know 
- anybody know of any wide EZ printers out there yet?)

Cheers,
Kip

Lynne Siler wrote, in part:

>I would love to know the consensus on black and white printing a year later
<snip>
>
>So, I'm back where I started. I would like a simple system to print Black
and 
>white images and am willing to buy a second printer to do so. Archival
quality 
>is very important. What is the latest school of thought on the best, long
lasting 
>black and white prints?
>  
>



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links