Digital BW, The Print

I have a refurbished 1160 that I was planning to use with Cone
PiezographyBW ICC system, but upon further consideration would like to
try MIS inks. I see that most of the discussion here is about the UT2
inksets used with 1280. Can anyone comment on their experience using
the 1160/UT combo? How do you like the results? Any advice for a
newbie with this system? Is the 1280/UT2 system much better?

Steve,

I have been running an 1160 using UT inks and Paul Roark's curves for a 
year+ now with great success and results. Occasional issues with air in 
the CIS system but this can be dealt with easily.

Many thanks to Paul for his work and kind help.

Phil Morse

Steve Rosenblum wrote:

>I have a refurbished 1160 that I was planning to use with Cone
>PiezographyBW ICC system, but upon further consideration would like to
>try MIS inks. I see that most of the discussion here is about the UT2
>inksets used with 1280. Can anyone comment on their experience using
>the 1160/UT combo? How do you like the results? Any advice for a
>newbie with this system? Is the 1280/UT2 system much better?
>
>
>
>
>
>
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yes I know this is off topic, but I got a C86 this weekend, to try for 
color printing, and if it was not good, I was going to switch it to MIS 
EZ inks. Well, The prints are pretty darn good so far. Actually I cant 
get the printer to really work with costco glossy, without profiling, 
but it is perfect  with epson cheap glossy, and epson durabrite glossy. 
Actually to my eye it is better with the cheap glossy. The cheap glossy 
has a nice old fashioned non-RC feel to it that is great for 
monochrome, and is pretty nice for snapshots too. With Epson Enhanced 
matte, the output is really pretty stunning. WOW. Perfect color, 
perfect resolution, and absolutely no banding or artifacts on all three 
of these papers. I dont have a UC print here to compare, but I remember 
no being knocked out at the calumet gallerie a couple weeks ago where 
they had a wall full of UC prints. Oddly, I read  some pretty bad 
reviews of the C86. hmmmmm.........If the UT EZ output is like this, It 
must really be something. I wonder if they will have a bigger version 
of this printer, or if this one is already outdated. Pretty cool 
though....Doug M

Hello Douglas,

I have a R200 and just bought a C86, for color printing the R200 
using dye-ink have very beautifully print-out that can compare or 
better than color lab.

For C86, it have only four color and it's pigment ink. As pigment ink 
do not have wider gammut BUT with 7 or 8 inkset (like 2100 and R800) 
that different story.

I bought the C86 just for B&W only.... as for Costco glossy I let 
others to reply cos' we don't have Costco here that why I am looking 
for the Co. that made them as so I can buy them easily.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Meeuwsen 
<lipshurt@m...> wrote:
> yes I know this is off topic, but I got a C86 this weekend, to try 
for 
> color printing, and if it was not good, I was going to switch it to 
MIS 
> EZ inks. Well, The prints are pretty darn good so far. Actually I 
cant 
> get the printer to really work with costco glossy, without 
profiling, 
> but it is perfect  with epson cheap glossy, and epson durabrite 
glossy. 
> Actually to my eye it is better with the cheap glossy. The cheap 
glossy 
> has a nice old fashioned non-RC feel to it that is great for 
> monochrome, and is pretty nice for snapshots too. With Epson 
Enhanced 
> matte, the output is really pretty stunning. WOW. Perfect color, 
> perfect resolution, and absolutely no banding or artifacts on all 
three 
> of these papers. I dont have a UC print here to compare, but I 
remember 
> no being knocked out at the calumet gallerie a couple weeks ago 
where 
> they had a wall full of UC prints. Oddly, I read  some pretty bad 
> reviews of the C86. hmmmmm.........If the UT EZ output is like 
this, It 
> must really be something. I wonder if they will have a bigger 
version 
> of this printer, or if this one is already outdated. Pretty cool 
> though....Doug M

>... 1160 ...would like to try MIS inks. 

>I see that most of the discussion here is about the UT2
>inksets used with 1280.

> Can anyone comment on their experience using the 1160/UT combo?

I used an 1160 for a few years.  The variable-tone approach was originally
my solution to the warmth of the original Peizo inks in my 1160.  The first
one I called "Variable-Piezo."  (Jon was not amused.)

The variable-tone inks in the 1160 produce some dots in the highlights that
some critical users saw.  They never bothered me in actual prints, however.

The easiest and perhaps safest way to start with an 1160 is the UT-FS (warm)
or UT-FSN (neutral-cool) monotone inksets.  With these a simple grayscale
curve may be all that is need.  In fact, no curve prints OK, but a bit on
the light side.   However, these approaches are not as smooth as a
partitioned RGB approach.  I have curves for both. 

> Is the 1280/UT2 system much better?

The UT2 inkset is more flexible.  If you're going to pay for a 1280, I
wonder if going straight to a 2200 isn't worth the extra money, however.

The simplest and cheapest way to start B&W printing is with the C86 and MIS
EZ inks.  They are the most bullet-proof and work with any image editor. 

Check out my printing information page at
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/index.htm

Good luck.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 







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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

> The UT2 inkset is more flexible.  If you're going to pay for a
1280, I
> wonder if going straight to a 2200 isn't worth the extra money,
however.

Thanks to everyone, especially Paul, for the prompt response. While I
am a "newbie" to printing with a Roark/MIS approach, I am not new to
digital printing. I already own a 2200 which I use for color printing.
I bought a refurbished 1160 with the idea of using it with
PiezographyBW iQuad as a dedicated BW printer and keeping the 2200 for
color. The many reports of clogging with the Piezography system
provoked more research on my part and led me to the possibility of
using the 1160 with MIS inks and Paul's curves (despite the fact that
Jon Cone is a personal friend). 

Perhaps I should use the same 2200 for both color and BW printing? How
troublesome is it to change from the Epson UC inkset to the UT2 inkset
(and back again) on a 2200? Is the MIS inkset relatively free of
clogging problems? I am a dedicated amateur, not a pro, so I
don't make thousands of prints, more like dozens. I could always sell
the 1160. I also have a perfectly good 1200 (from yesteryear) stored
away!

Could anyone tell me what Epson Enhanced Matte is sold as in the UK? It's
not listed at Silverprint or dabs at least under that name. If it's not
available what would be the closest equivalent?

Thanks
Howard Shaw

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Shaw" 
<glassman@b...> wrote:
> Could anyone tell me what Epson Enhanced Matte is sold as in the 
UK? 

Epson Archival Matte

John

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve 
Rosenblum" <stevierose@y...> wrote:

> Perhaps I should use the same 2200 for both color and BW printing? 
How
> troublesome is it to change from the Epson UC inkset to the UT2 
inkset
> (and back again) on a 2200? 

Before I got my 2100 I used an 1160 and MIS UT inks with Pauls 
curves. The results were very good. However I did find I had a few 
clog issues. Nothing very bad but I found I had to do regular nozzle 
cleans. I bought the 2100 because I wanted to do colour and have a go 
at BO printing. Claytons BO method with Eboni ink and OEM coloured 
inks is a cheap way to start B&W printing. If you do not like the BO 
print, then Roy's QTR is free to try and a bargain to buy at $50. I 
used QTR with OEM inks and the prints are very good. I'm now using 
the Bowhaus RIP OPM/IJC, only because I perfer the GUI. The point 
about using either QTR or OPM/IJC is that there is no need to swop 
inks. The RIPs partition the inks so that you get metamerism few B&W 
prints, which is simply not possible if you use all the inks through 
the Epson driver. A neat solution if you want to print colour and B&W 
from the same printer.

If you want to swop ink sets then check with MIS if the two are 
compatible, and are self sealing like the Epson carts.

Hope this helps.

Peter

>Perhaps I should use the same 2200 for both color and BW printing? How
>troublesome is it to change from the Epson UC inkset to the UT2 inkset
>(and back again) on a 2200?

Before changing inks you might try QTR/GUI with the Epson UC inks in the
2200.  I think most users are pretty happy doing black and white with that,
I know I am.

I used the 1160 with Paul Roark's curves and the MIS VM inks, which were
more or less the predecessors to the UT2 inks.  I thought the results were
very good. I changed only because after a couple years the 1160 gave out.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Rosenblum" <stevierose@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1160 and UT newbie question




> The UT2 inkset is more flexible.  If you're going to pay for a
1280, I
> wonder if going straight to a 2200 isn't worth the extra money,
however.

Thanks to everyone, especially Paul, for the prompt response. While I
am a "newbie" to printing with a Roark/MIS approach, I am not new to
digital printing. I already own a 2200 which I use for color printing.
I bought a refurbished 1160 with the idea of using it with
PiezographyBW iQuad as a dedicated BW printer and keeping the 2200 for
color. The many reports of clogging with the Piezography system
provoked more research on my part and led me to the possibility of
using the 1160 with MIS inks and Paul's curves (despite the fact that
Jon Cone is a personal friend).

Perhaps I should use the same 2200 for both color and BW printing? How
troublesome is it to change from the Epson UC inkset to the UT2 inkset
(and back again) on a 2200? Is the MIS inkset relatively free of
clogging problems? I am a dedicated amateur, not a pro, so I
don't make thousands of prints, more like dozens. I could always sell
the 1160. I also have a perfectly good 1200 (from yesteryear) stored
away!






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

Steve,

I've been using an 1160 with MIS FS inks and QTR. Excellent results, no 
variable tone with this inkset though.

This should be a much less expensive solution than the cone system, 
though will require more learning on  your part.

-bruce


On Sunday, Jan 16, 2005, at 22:46 US/Pacific, 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Message: 14
>    Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 03:30:57 -0000
>    From: "Steve Rosenblum" <stevierose@...>
> Subject: 1160 and UT newbie question
>
>
> I have a refurbished 1160 that I was planning to use with Cone
> PiezographyBW ICC system, but upon further consideration would like to
> try MIS inks. I see that most of the discussion here is about the UT2
> inksets used with 1280. Can anyone comment on their experience using
> the 1160/UT combo? How do you like the results? Any advice for a
> newbie with this system? Is the 1280/UT2 system much better?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, bruce greene
<bagreene@v...> wrote:
> Steve,
> 
> I've been using an 1160 with MIS FS inks and QTR. Excellent results, no 
> variable tone with this inkset though.
> 
> This should be a much less expensive solution than the cone system, 
> though will require more learning on  your part.
> 
> -bruce
> 
Even less expensive is using the same system with Paul's ajustement
printing curves. Have you found any difference with QTR and using
Paul's curves ?

TIA,
Andre

Andre,

I haven't used paul's curves myself, but I have seen many prints done 
with them in print exchanges.

My gut reaction is that they work quite well for landscape images, but 
less perfectly with portraits. I think this may be because Paul 
optimizes the curves for his printers and there may be slight variation 
with other printers. The result being that flat spots or gaps in the 
prints are not noticeable on landscapes, but our brains are quite 
sensitive to anomalies in flesh tones.

By making my own curves with QTR, I've accomplished very smooth grey 
ramps without any noticeable flat spots, so I'm happier with that 
solution. Using the supplied curves with QTR may negate the advantage, 
but I haven't tried it as I'm not using a "Standard" ink set in my 1160.

-bruce



On Tuesday, Jan 18, 2005, at 07:36 US/Pacific, 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Message: 3
>    Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:18:29 -0000
>    From: "Andre" <am1000@...>
> Subject: Re: 1160 and UT newbie question
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, bruce greene
> <bagreene@v...> wrote:
>> Steve,
>>
>> I've been using an 1160 with MIS FS inks and QTR. Excellent results, 
>> no
>> variable tone with this inkset though.
>>
>> This should be a much less expensive solution than the cone system,
>> though will require more learning on  your part.
>>
>> -bruce
>>
> Even less expensive is using the same system with Paul's ajustement
> printing curves. Have you found any difference with QTR and using
> Paul's curves ?
>
> TIA,
> Andre

Bruce,

I guess the first thing to do with Paul's ajustement curves is to
print the 21 stepwedge and see if the ramp is smooth from pure black
to pure white. If that is the case, I wonder how there could be gaps
that would show up in portraits but not in landscapes prints. 

But, maybe Paul can light my lantern here.

In the mean time, I think I'm going to give QTR a shot and see how it
prints with the Epson 1160 and the UT-FS inkset, knowing that variable
tone would not work. Is making your own curve in QTR an elaborate
process ?

André

> Message: 12
>    Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:29:31 -0000
>    From: "Andre" <am1000@...>
> Subject: Re: 1160 and UT newbie question
>
>
> Bruce,
>
> I guess the first thing to do with Paul's ajustement curves is to
> print the 21 stepwedge and see if the ramp is smooth from pure black
> to pure white. If that is the case, I wonder how there could be gaps
> that would show up in portraits but not in landscapes prints.
>
> But, maybe Paul can light my lantern here.
>
> In the mean time, I think I'm going to give QTR a shot and see how it
> prints with the Epson 1160 and the UT-FS inkset, knowing that variable
> tone would not work. Is making your own curve in QTR an elaborate
> process ?
>
> André
>

Making the curves is not too elaborate, but I believe does require a 
mac.

The instructions are confusing, but once you figure it out it's really 
pretty simple. It requires two calibration test prints, make curve, 
test and adjust curve.

-bruce