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Digital BW, The Print

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Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

2005-01-28 by Roy Harrington

I have a new download of a pure gray lab working space and printing
profiles that take advantage of the color management system.   So there
are icc profiles for printing with QTR that do "perceptual intent" conversion
of your grayscale images.  You really don't need soft-proofs unless you want
to see the color of the print.  The Photoshop color management does
perceptual intent on both the screen (as it always has) and now on printing
through QTR.  Since its the same color engine doing both, the display view
and the print image are very well matched from square one.

There's 3 icc profiles and a readme that has more info.  
Download grayspace.zip   --  Mac or PC.

See my Download Page from either the Mac or PC main page.   I've had to
move the downloads since I'm running out of download usage.

Roy Harrington
QuadToneRIP
www.harrington.com

Re: [Digital BW] Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

2005-01-28 by Steve Kale

Hi Roy

IS there a problem with the download page  -  I could not get the download
to start.

Cheers

Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Roy Harrington <roy@harrington.com>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 04:59:31 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a new download of a pure gray lab working space and printing
> profiles that take advantage of the color management system.   So there
> are icc profiles for printing with QTR that do "perceptual intent" conversion
> of your grayscale images.  You really don't need soft-proofs unless you want
> to see the color of the print.  The Photoshop color management does
> perceptual intent on both the screen (as it always has) and now on printing
> through QTR.  Since its the same color engine doing both, the display view
> and the print image are very well matched from square one.
> 
> There's 3 icc profiles and a readme that has more info.
> Download grayspace.zip   --  Mac or PC.
> 
> See my Download Page from either the Mac or PC main page.   I've had to
> move the downloads since I'm running out of download usage.
> 
> Roy Harrington
> QuadToneRIP
> www.harrington.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See ³Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines² in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE ³OWNER² AND
> ³MODERATORS² OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  ³OWNER² AND ³MODERATORS² OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

2005-01-28 by Steve Kale

OK got it.  Doesn't start with Speed Download but fine with Safari download.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Roy Harrington <roy@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 04:59:31 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a new download of a pure gray lab working space and printing
> profiles that take advantage of the color management system.   So there
> are icc profiles for printing with QTR that do "perceptual intent" conversion
> of your grayscale images.  You really don't need soft-proofs unless you want
> to see the color of the print.  The Photoshop color management does
> perceptual intent on both the screen (as it always has) and now on printing
> through QTR.  Since its the same color engine doing both, the display view
> and the print image are very well matched from square one.
> 
> There's 3 icc profiles and a readme that has more info.
> Download grayspace.zip   --  Mac or PC.
> 
> See my Download Page from either the Mac or PC main page.   I've had to
> move the downloads since I'm running out of download usage.
> 
> Roy Harrington
> QuadToneRIP
> www.harrington.com
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

2005-01-28 by Djon

Roy, I'm having a ball with QTRgui ...BUT...

Please explain in simple terms (I'm simple) the meaning and advantage
of a "pure gray lab working space" 

The beauty of QTRgui seems it's unique ability to let us step away
from jargon-ridden methodologies, eliminating the necessity for
profiles... 


> I have a new download of a pure gray lab working space and printing
> profiles that take advantage of the color management system.   So there
> are icc profiles for printing with QTR that do "perceptual intent"
conversion
> of your grayscale images.

Re: [Digital BW] Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

2005-01-28 by Roy Zartarian

I downloaded, installed and tried Roy's latest enhancements.

The display and final print are now much closer to each other in 
appearance.

Thank you, Roy. This is great stuff!

Roy Z.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Jan 27, 2005, at 11:59 PM, Roy Harrington wrote:

>
>
>
> I have a new download of a pure gray lab working space and printing
> profiles that take advantage of the color management system.   So there
> are icc profiles for printing with QTR that do "perceptual intent" 
> conversion
> of your grayscale images.  You really don't need soft-proofs unless 
> you want
> to see the color of the print.  The Photoshop color management does
> perceptual intent on both the screen (as it always has) and now on 
> printing
> through QTR.  Since its the same color engine doing both, the display 
> view
> and the print image are very well matched from square one.
>
> There's 3 icc profiles and a readme that has more info.
> Download grayspace.zip   --  Mac or PC.
>
> See my Download Page from either the Mac or PC main page.   I've had to
> move the downloads since I'm running out of download usage.
>
> Roy Harrington
> QuadToneRIP
> www.harrington.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” 
> AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

2005-01-28 by Steve Kale

Lab is normally a three channel space: L (luminance), a and b.  Roy has
stripped off the a and b.

With QTR we linearize L values ie we linearize luminance.  Linearize means
you want a nice straight line, ie uniform changes, in L value from dMin to
dMax.  If you have uniform change then you "have good separation" of shades
or grey.  Since we are most concerned with luminance (shades of light
intensity) in B&W and not hue we are focused on L in the Lab space.  (Gray
gamma is RGB but with R=G=B and so one channel.)  We do not need to focus on
a and b at the edit stage.  So nice to have a Lab space without the two
empty channels taking up disk space and memory.  So same as using Lab but
smaller files.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Djon <westsidemaurice@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:33:41 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual
> 
> 
> 
> Roy, I'm having a ball with QTRgui ...BUT...
> 
> Please explain in simple terms (I'm simple) the meaning and advantage
> of a "pure gray lab working space"
> 
> The beauty of QTRgui seems it's unique ability to let us step away
> from jargon-ridden methodologies, eliminating the necessity for
> profiles... 
> 
> 
>> I have a new download of a pure gray lab working space and printing
>> profiles that take advantage of the color management system.   So there
>> are icc profiles for printing with QTR that do "perceptual intent"
> conversion
>> of your grayscale images.

[Digital BW] Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

2005-01-28 by Djon

Steve, thanks! That gets me most of the way. 




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> Lab is normally a three channel space: L (luminance), a and b.  Roy has
> stripped off the a and b.
> 
> With QTR we linearize L values ie we linearize luminance.  Linearize
means
> you want a nice straight line, ie uniform changes, in L value from
dMin to
> dMax.  If you have uniform change then you "have good separation" of
shades
> or grey.  Since we are most concerned with luminance (shades of light
> intensity) in B&W and not hue we are focused on L in the Lab space.
 (Gray
> gamma is RGB but with R=G=B and so one channel.)  We do not need to
focus on
> a and b at the edit stage.  So nice to have a Lab space without the two
> empty channels taking up disk space and memory.  So same as using
Lab but
> smaller files.
> 
> 
> > From: Djon <westsidemaurice@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:33:41 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with
Perceptual
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Roy, I'm having a ball with QTRgui ...BUT...
> > 
> > Please explain in simple terms (I'm simple) the meaning and advantage
> > of a "pure gray lab working space"
> > 
> > The beauty of QTRgui seems it's unique ability to let us step away
> > from jargon-ridden methodologies, eliminating the necessity for
> > profiles... 
> > 
> > 
> >> I have a new download of a pure gray lab working space and printing
> >> profiles that take advantage of the color management system.   So
there
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >> are icc profiles for printing with QTR that do "perceptual intent"
> > conversion
> >> of your grayscale images.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

2005-01-28 by Steve Kale

Doesn't matter - you don't use it for QTR
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Andrew Unger <ungram@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:31:48 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual
> 
> 
> 
> I changed my gray working space to QTR - Gray Lab, but should I also
> change the "Spot" from 20% dot gain?
>

Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

2005-01-29 by jessupsa

Roy,
Your RIP just keeps getting better and better. Thanks so much for your work.
I have been using your previous lab grayscale as my workspace, and it seems great. 
I downloaded this one, but Photoshop wouldn't load it into color space. So, I'm 
uncertain as to how to use the gray icc profile as a working space.
1. Is it significantly different from your last one?
2. How do I get it into my colorspace settings? when I try to load it as I did your last 
gray profile, the file name is grayed out (Mac OS 10.2.8)
Sarah
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
<roy@h...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> 
> I have a new download of a pure gray lab working space and printing
> profiles that take advantage of the color management system.   So there
> are icc profiles for printing with QTR that do "perceptual intent" conversion
> of your grayscale images.  You really don't need soft-proofs unless you want
> to see the color of the print.  The Photoshop color management does
> perceptual intent on both the screen (as it always has) and now on printing
> through QTR.  Since its the same color engine doing both, the display view
> and the print image are very well matched from square one.
> 
> There's 3 icc profiles and a readme that has more info.  
> Download grayspace.zip   --  Mac or PC.
> 
> See my Download Page from either the Mac or PC main page.   I've had to
> move the downloads since I'm running out of download usage.
> 
> Roy Harrington
> QuadToneRIP
> www.harrington.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

2005-01-29 by Steve Kale

Sarah

It is slightly corrected but you should not have any issues loading it as
the workspace.  I can only suggest that you carefully go through the steps
again.  From within PS's colour settings you are looking for QTR - Gray Lab.

Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: jessupsa <sjessup@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 14:50:13 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual
> 
> 
> 
> Roy,
> Your RIP just keeps getting better and better. Thanks so much for your work.
> I have been using your previous lab grayscale as my workspace, and it seems
> great. 
> I downloaded this one, but Photoshop wouldn't load it into color space. So,
> I'm 
> uncertain as to how to use the gray icc profile as a working space.
> 1. Is it significantly different from your last one?
> 2. How do I get it into my colorspace settings? when I try to load it as I did
> your last 
> gray profile, the file name is grayed out (Mac OS 10.2.8)
> Sarah
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington"
> <roy@h...> wrote:
>>

Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

2005-01-29 by John Vitollo

> 2. How do I get it into my colorspace settings? when I try to load it as I did your last 
> gray profile, the file name is grayed out (Mac OS 10.2.8)
> Sarah

Try running Disk Utility's "Repair Permissions".

Restart Photoshop after installing  profiles.

Also since you are using Jaguar you might change the .icc to .icm - Jaguar was a little 
touchy. But first try Repair Permissions.

[Digital BW] Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual

2005-01-29 by jessupsa

Steve,
Thanks for the advice. I was actually blowing it at the very last step, when I clicked 
the general "Load" instead of "load grayscale"from the grayscale dropdown choices. 
Duh.
Sarah
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Sarah
> 
> It is slightly corrected but you should not have any issues loading it as
> the workspace.  I can only suggest that you carefully go through the steps
> again.  From within PS's colour settings you are looking for QTR - Gray Lab.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> > From: jessupsa <sjessup@c...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 14:50:13 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Gray Lab Working Space and Printing with Perceptual
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Roy,
> > Your RIP just keeps getting better and better. Thanks so much for your work.
> > I have been using your previous lab grayscale as my workspace, and it seems
> > great. 
> > I downloaded this one, but Photoshop wouldn't load it into color space. So,
> > I'm 
> > uncertain as to how to use the gray icc profile as a working space.
> > 1. Is it significantly different from your last one?
> > 2. How do I get it into my colorspace settings? when I try to load it as I did
> > your last 
> > gray profile, the file name is grayed out (Mac OS 10.2.8)
> > Sarah
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington"
> > <roy@h...> wrote:
> >>

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.