Digital BW, The Print

I have a profile which is linerized but is printing too dark. If I 
print using this profile in OPM and adjust exposure to lighten by 15 
units, I get a good print match with calibrated monitor. What I would 
like to do is lighten this profile so I require no adjustments in OPM.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Is the vertical slider in the linearization tab at 0 to start with? 
This slider adjusts the Aim curve to lightten or darken your profile. 
Adjust this slider then save the profile (using a different name) and 
see if it makes a difference. Up=brighter.

--nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bwbonkers" 
<PeterDLevis@a...> wrote:

> 
> I have a profile which is linerized but is printing too dark. If I 
> print using this profile in OPM and adjust exposure to lighten by 
> 15 units, I get a good print match with calibrated monitor. What I 
> would like to do is lighten this profile so I require no 
> adjustments in OPM.
> 
> Peter

Nick
Yes the vertical slider is set to 0. With my setup moving the slider 
down to -6 has lighten the print. I now have a green aims curve below 
the red readings straight line. Would I now need to relinearize? 

Peter

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H. Nugent" 
<nghin@p...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> Is the vertical slider in the linearization tab at 0 to start with? 
> This slider adjusts the Aim curve to lightten or darken your 
profile. 
> Adjust this slider then save the profile (using a different name) 
and 
> see if it makes a difference. Up=brighter.
> 
> --nick
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bwbonkers" 
> <PeterDLevis@a...> wrote:
> > 
> > I have a profile which is linerized but is printing too dark. If 
I 
> > print using this profile in OPM and adjust exposure to lighten by 
> > 15 units, I get a good print match with calibrated monitor. What 
I 

> > would like to do is lighten this profile so I require no 
> > adjustments in OPM.
> > 
> > Peter

Hello Peter,

If your reading in density values, a ( - 6 ) would be typical.  With Density
readings the idea is to set your step 13 in the AIM to about .63 - .69
range.    The ³green² line is the ideal plot calculated from your paper
white to your D-Max ( the DR range).  The ³red² line is your actual read in
values.  IJC, will adjust your profile to conform to the new AIM line.

Joe Berndt

On 2/3/05 1:48 PM, "bwbonkers" <PeterDLevis@aol.com> wrote:

> Nick
> Yes the vertical slider is set to 0. With my setup moving the slider
> down to -6 has lighten the print. I now have a green aims curve below
> the red readings straight line. Would I now need to relinearize?
> 
> Peter
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H. Nugent"
> <nghin@p...> wrote:
>> > 
>> > Hi Peter,
>> > 
>> > Is the vertical slider in the linearization tab at 0 to start with?
>> > This slider adjusts the Aim curve to lightten or darken your
> profile. 
>> > Adjust this slider then save the profile (using a different name)
> and 
>> > see if it makes a difference. Up=brighter.
>> > 
>> > --nick
>> > 
>> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bwbonkers"
>> > <PeterDLevis@a...> wrote:
>>> > > 
>>> > > I have a profile which is linerized but is printing too dark. If
> I 
>>> > > print using this profile in OPM and adjust exposure to lighten by
>>> > > 15 units, I get a good print match with calibrated monitor. What
> I 
>>> > > would like to do is lighten this profile so I require no
>>> > > adjustments in OPM.
>>> > > 
>>> > > Peter




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Joe

Unfortunately I'm not reading in density values but instead using L 
values. With the aims slider set to 0 I get a nice straight line 
match between aims and readings. However this prints too dark. If I 
set the aims to -4, step 13 remaps from 50 to 40 and the aims 
straight line becomes a curve. The test image now prints lighter and 
is a better match with the monitor. However is this good practise?

How would you lighten a perfectly good profile ?

Peter.
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Joe Berndt 
<joeberndt@v...> wrote:
> Hello Peter,
> 
> If your reading in density values, a ( - 6 ) would be typical.  
With Density
> readings the idea is to set your step 13 in the AIM to about .63 -
 .69
> range.    The ³green² line is the ideal plot calculated from your 
paper
> white to your D-Max ( the DR range).  The ³red² line is your actual 
read in
> values.  IJC, will adjust your profile to conform to the new AIM 
line.
> 
> Joe Berndt
> 
> On 2/3/05 1:48 PM, "bwbonkers" <PeterDLevis@a...> wrote:
> 
> > Nick
> > Yes the vertical slider is set to 0. With my setup moving the 
slider
> > down to -6 has lighten the print. I now have a green aims curve 
below
> > the red readings straight line. Would I now need to relinearize?
> > 
> > Peter
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H. 
Nugent"
> > <nghin@p...> wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > Hi Peter,
> >> > 
> >> > Is the vertical slider in the linearization tab at 0 to start 
with?
> >> > This slider adjusts the Aim curve to lightten or darken your
> > profile. 
> >> > Adjust this slider then save the profile (using a different 
name)
> > and 
> >> > see if it makes a difference. Up=brighter.
> >> > 
> >> > --nick
> >> > 
> >> > --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bwbonkers"
> >> > <PeterDLevis@a...> wrote:
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > I have a profile which is linerized but is printing too 
dark. If
> > I 
> >>> > > print using this profile in OPM and adjust exposure to 
lighten by
> >>> > > 15 units, I get a good print match with calibrated monitor. 
What

> > I 
> >>> > > would like to do is lighten this profile so I require no
> >>> > > adjustments in OPM.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Peter,
 
I'm sorry I told you the opposite of what you should have done to lighten the profile. In my case 0 is just right so I assumed the slider behavior without looking at the aim values which actually get "darker" as you move the slider upward (isn't it kind of backward?).
 
You can print the target with linearization for verification or if there is no blown out highlights in your image you should be fine.
 
nick


Message: 3 
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 22:32:12 -0000

From: "bwbonkers" 

Subject: Re: IJC/OPM How do you lighten a profile


Hi Joe

Unfortunately I'm not reading in density values but instead using L 
values. With the aims slider set to 0 I get a nice straight line 
match between aims and readings. However this prints too dark. If I 
set the aims to -4, step 13 remaps from 50 to 40 and the aims 
straight line becomes a curve. The test image now prints lighter and 
is a better match with the monitor. However is this good practise?

Peter.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Peter,

On L* values you would start with the slider at ( 0 ).  This produces a
linear response( straight line ).  This gives you a standard baseline where
each step is spread out with equal luminance.  But as we know a linear
response, won¹t always print the best pictures.  So to control the overall
density of the profile you would bring up or down the slider just as you are
doing.   

Sometimes when  I¹m printing I¹ll make a view profiles with different
mid-tone settings, then I print the same image using those different
profiles.  I then find the profile that works best for the subject matter.

Joe


On 2/3/05 2:32 PM, "bwbonkers" <PeterDLevis@...> wrote:

> 
> Hi Joe
> 
> Unfortunately I'm not reading in density values but instead using L
> values. With the aims slider set to 0 I get a nice straight line
> match between aims and readings. However this prints too dark. If I
> set the aims to -4, step 13 remaps from 50 to 40 and the aims
> straight line becomes a curve. The test image now prints lighter and
> is a better match with the monitor. However is this good practise?
> 
> How would you lighten a perfectly good profile ?
> 
> Peter.
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Joe Berndt
> <joeberndt@v...> wrote:
>> > Hello Peter,
>> > 
>> > If your reading in density values, a ( - 6 ) would be typical.
> With Density
>> > readings the idea is to set your step 13 in the AIM to about .63 -
> .69
>> > range.    The ³green² line is the ideal plot calculated from your
> paper
>> > white to your D-Max ( the DR range).  The ³red² line is your actual
> read in
>> > values.  IJC, will adjust your profile to conform to the new AIM
> line.
>> > 
>> > Joe Berndt




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Peter,

The digest came to me a little late and there have been several 
responses to your question. But just in case you haven't got this 
one figured out yet - which I think you did - the answer is no, 
there is no need to relinearize.

However, maybe Joe or Lou or Antonis may want to jump in here, I 
think we can fine tune the profile by printing the target with 
linearization and read each patch and make correction, if any, to 
the linearization table. But I have never had to do this re-
linearization step because I don't think it is necessary. As long as 
the test image comes out smooth with no bumps or flat spots.

--nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bwbonkers" 
<PeterDLevis@a...> wrote:

> 
> Nick
> Yes the vertical slider is set to 0. With my setup moving the 
> slider down to -6 has lighten the print. I now have a green aims 
> curve below the red readings straight line. Would I now need to 
> relinearize? 
> 
> Peter

Hi Joe / nick

Many thanks for your help. I think now I have a better understanding 
of what the aims slider does. To lighten my test print to match my 
monitor I have moved the aims down -4, which has remapped the L 
values, step 13 from 50 to 40. If I keep my original linear profile 
(aims set to 0) and print in OPM with the exposure slider set to 
lighten by 10 units, I get a very similiar print. This begs the 
question, is the exposure slider doing a similiar job as the aims 
slider. Hmm....

Peter.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H. Nugent" 
<nghin@p...> wrote:
> 
> Peter,
> 
> The digest came to me a little late and there have been several 
> responses to your question. But just in case you haven't got this 
> one figured out yet - which I think you did - the answer is no, 
> there is no need to relinearize.
> 
> However, maybe Joe or Lou or Antonis may want to jump in here, I 
> think we can fine tune the profile by printing the target with 
> linearization and read each patch and make correction, if any, to 
> the linearization table. But I have never had to do this re-
> linearization step because I don't think it is necessary. As long 
as 

> the test image comes out smooth with no bumps or flat spots.
> 
> --nick
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bwbonkers" 
> <PeterDLevis@a...> wrote:
> > 
> > Nick
> > Yes the vertical slider is set to 0. With my setup moving the 
> > slider down to -6 has lighten the print. I now have a green aims 
> > curve below the red readings straight line. Would I now need to 
> > relinearize? 
> > 
> > Peter

Nick,

That is my experience.  If you want to lighten the midtones in your 
profile, just move the slider a few points in the minus direction.  
Your raw data is still plotted on the curve based on the L* or 
density units you originally entered (unless you click the clear 
button, in which case you would need to reenter the data).  So, the 
green curve represents the absolute value and spacing between each of 
the 26 steps after IJC performs auto linearization.  All you need to 
do is save your profile after moving the gamma slider and you will 
have a finished, linearized profile.

Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H. Nugent" 
<nghin@p...> wrote:
> 
> Peter,
> 
> The digest came to me a little late and there have been several 
> responses to your question. But just in case you haven't got this 
> one figured out yet - which I think you did - the answer is no, 
> there is no need to relinearize.
> 
> However, maybe Joe or Lou or Antonis may want to jump in here, I 
> think we can fine tune the profile by printing the target with 
> linearization and read each patch and make correction, if any, to 
> the linearization table. But I have never had to do this re-
> linearization step because I don't think it is necessary. As long 
as 

> the test image comes out smooth with no bumps or flat spots.
> 
> --nick
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bwbonkers" 
> <PeterDLevis@a...> wrote:
> > 
> > Nick
> > Yes the vertical slider is set to 0. With my setup moving the 
> > slider down to -6 has lighten the print. I now have a green aims 
> > curve below the red readings straight line. Would I now need to 
> > relinearize? 
> > 
> > Peter

Hi Lou,

Yes. The entered linearization data is fixed. It's the aim slider 
value that is stored in the profile that tells OPM how to adjust the 
output gamma.

Peter has a question about the exposure slider which I haven't played 
with much at all. Does the OPM brightness slider work like the aim 
slider?

I asked Joe Berndt about the possibility of adding a way to tweak the 
aim curve like a Photoshop curve. The OPM constrast slider gives me 
additional constrast but I like the characteristic of Paul Roark's 
curve for the 1160/FS/Mild-EEM combination. I will boost the OPM 
constrast curve and compare it with Paul's curve to see how close 
they are. But being able to tweak the aim curve will make it much 
easier to fine tune a profile for a particular type of image.

--nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ldina" 
<lbdina@c...> wrote:

> 
> Nick,
> 
> That is my experience.  If you want to lighten the midtones in your 
> profile, just move the slider a few points in the minus direction.  
> Your raw data is still plotted on the curve based on the L* or 
> density units you originally entered (unless you click the clear 
> button, in which case you would need to reenter the data).  So, the 
> green curve represents the absolute value and spacing between each 
> of the 26 steps after IJC performs auto linearization.  All you 
> need to do is save your profile after moving the gamma slider and 
> you will have a finished, linearized profile.
> 
> Lou

There is a problem with the Brightness slider in OPM (Windows version 
1.0) whereby the action is reversed. Joe Berndt is aware of this and 
a fix is due in the next version.
 - Have we a date for this yet Joe? -

Hi Nick.

"Does the OPM brightness slider work like the aim slider?"

The AIM slider in IJC applies a single point gamma adjustment to the 
linearization.  So, if you move the slider to -2, for example, the 
midpoint of the scale will be made lighter.  The white and black 
points are held constant.  The adjustments are heaviest in the middle 
of the tone curve and become smaller and smaller as you move toward 
the end points.

From my experimentation, it appears the contrast slider in OPM acts 
very much like an "S" curve in Photoshop.  The end points appear to 
remain fixed.  Moving the slider to the right increases contrast (ie, 
brightens the 1/4 tones and darkens the 3/4 tones).  Moving the 
slider to the left lowers the contrast (darkens the 1/4 tones and 
lightens the 3/4 tones).  

I'm not 100% certain about the brightness slider in OPM, but visually 
it seems to hold the end points constant and brighten all the points 
in between, much like the gamma slider in IJC.  I loaded the 26 step 
grayscale in OPM to experiment.  I used a piece of cardboard to cover 
steps 1-25 on screen so only step 26 was visible.  Moving the 
brightness slider from one extreme to the other showed no visible 
change in step 26, at least to my eye.  I did the same with step 1 
and saw no difference.  Of course, steps 2-25 do change as you adjust 
the slider.  I'm not sure if this works exactly the same as the gamma 
slider in IJC or not.

We'd have to ask Joe Berndt to be absolutely certain.  

At present, IJC only allows a single point gamma adjustment with the 
slider.  I'm not sure I would need or want more ~ I'd have to think 
about it some.  I'd probably prefer to keep the profile simple and 
linear, then make any desired tonal adjustments in PS.  If I have an 
accurate soft proof preview in PS and make my adjustments there, I 
have fewer variables to contend with and fewer ways to screw up my 
print.  

(Actually, you CAN build and save a non-linear profile in IJC if you 
wish and make any adjustments you want.  You would set ink limits, 
adjust curves, etc, as always.  Print a target for linearization and 
read with a densitometer or spectrophotometer, entering the data in 
the linearization window.  Once you have a raw curve shape you like 
(based on your density readings), switch to the Ink Shapes tab and 
click the Save button.  You will be prompted as to whether you want 
to save without linearization.  If you say yes, IJC will skip the 
Auto linearization and let you save your raw data as the final 
profile.  If using Save from the linearization tab, IJC always 
applies an auto-linearization to your raw data.)

Regards, 

Lou


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H. Nugent" 
<nghin@p...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Lou,
> 
> Yes. The entered linearization data is fixed. It's the aim slider 
> value that is stored in the profile that tells OPM how to adjust 
the 
> output gamma.
> 
> Peter has a question about the exposure slider which I haven't 
played 
> with much at all. Does the OPM brightness slider work like the aim 
> slider?
> 
> I asked Joe Berndt about the possibility of adding a way to tweak 
the 
> aim curve like a Photoshop curve. The OPM constrast slider gives me 
> additional constrast but I like the characteristic of Paul Roark's 
> curve for the 1160/FS/Mild-EEM combination. I will boost the OPM 
> constrast curve and compare it with Paul's curve to see how close 
> they are. But being able to tweak the aim curve will make it much 
> easier to fine tune a profile for a particular type of image.
> 
> --nick
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ldina" 
> <lbdina@c...> wrote:
> > 
> > Nick,
> > 
> > That is my experience.  If you want to lighten the midtones in 
your 
> > profile, just move the slider a few points in the minus 
direction.  
> > Your raw data is still plotted on the curve based on the L* or 
> > density units you originally entered (unless you click the clear 
> > button, in which case you would need to reenter the data).  So, 
the 
> > green curve represents the absolute value and spacing between 
each 

> > of the 26 steps after IJC performs auto linearization.  All you 
> > need to do is save your profile after moving the gamma slider and 
> > you will have a finished, linearized profile.
> > 
> > Lou

John,

This has been fixed.  Windows v1.0.3 is now available for download.  
Contact Bowhaus if you need the link.  Your original user ID and 
password should work.

Lou

--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "johndavidgill2003" 
<jdgill@l...> wrote:
> 
> There is a problem with the Brightness slider in OPM (Windows 
version 
> 1.0) whereby the action is reversed. Joe Berndt is aware of this 
and 
> a fix is due in the next version.
>  - Have we a date for this yet Joe? -