Digital BW, The Print

I just wanted to thank Roy Harrington once again publicly for all he had done for this 
global digital monochrome community. He deservs the engineer of the decade award for 
QTR, and the way he had made it available to us so unselfishly. I thought is was cool with 
straight quad inksets but with Ultrachrome, I'm amazed.

I set up my new 9600 yesterday and today I did 15 variations of monochrome toning of 
one  portrait image on H. Photo Rag. These curves are so easy to use and this interface so 
amazingly clear and user friendly I don't know what to say. It took me six months to TRY 
to do with the Lyson Small Gamut tonable quad inkset what I did in one hour with 
UltraChrome and QTR. And the Lyson tonable system never was satisfactory in regard to 
metamerism or color purity.

Everyone of these variations I did this first day with QTR are worthy of putting in a gallery. 
None of them are THE one, they all have their own qualities and none by the way have any 
noticeable metamerism and with my drum scan I have very nice blacks and subtle high 
values. And I've just started.

So far if I have a favourites from one days work the hue curve selections that I like ( today)
are -  W 50%/ C 50% for a warm neutral, CS 70% / C 30% for cool neutral, and W/W 100% 
for a carbon sepia hue. But there plenty of other combinations that I like as well, such as 
the 100% CSel curves he already worked out. I know this took a lot of work from this team 
and I just feel so much hope with my vocation when I see someone doing things right that 
can make me think more creatively without having to fight the technology.

Does anyone have any personal choices for curve percentages/ paper combinations with 
QTR and Ultrachrome? I'm curious what others are doing with this set up. Finally, how 
much of this ink is coming out of the color channels? This I am not clear about. I mean 
there is no metamerism and I find it hard to belive that I'm getting this subtle of tonal 
rendition out of just 2 black channels?

Thanks again,

John

Hey John,

I am using a 9600 and QTR for the last couple of days.  Amazing 
results. Question for you as we are using presumably similar setups.  
Are you able to soft proof in PS?  Do you find that the prints that 
you make at 1440 are dark in relation to your screen (about 2 
stops)?  I profile with Monaco so I am pretty close on the monitor.  
Just wondered if you had any words of wisdom with the QTR / 9600 
combination

On your question below I love 80%CS/20 N for cool tones but there are 
a world of possibilities;-)  QTR is an awesome solution to a tough 
problem!!!

In terms of ink I assume some Cyan is used as well to cool the tones 
but I am just speculating.  

Best regards
Brian



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> 
> I just wanted to thank Roy Harrington once again publicly for all 
he had done for this 
> global digital monochrome community. He deservs the engineer of the 
decade award for 
> QTR, and the way he had made it available to us so unselfishly. I 
thought is was cool with 
> straight quad inksets but with Ultrachrome, I'm amazed.
> 
> I set up my new 9600 yesterday and today I did 15 variations of 
monochrome toning of 
> one  portrait image on H. Photo Rag. These curves are so easy to 
use and this interface so 
> amazingly clear and user friendly I don't know what to say. It took 
me six months to TRY 
> to do with the Lyson Small Gamut tonable quad inkset what I did in 
one hour with 
> UltraChrome and QTR. And the Lyson tonable system never was 
satisfactory in regard to 
> metamerism or color purity.
> 
> Everyone of these variations I did this first day with QTR are 
worthy of putting in a gallery. 
> None of them are THE one, they all have their own qualities and 
none by the way have any 
> noticeable metamerism and with my drum scan I have very nice blacks 
and subtle high 
> values. And I've just started.
> 
> So far if I have a favourites from one days work the hue curve 
selections that I like ( today)
> are -  W 50%/ C 50% for a warm neutral, CS 70% / C 30% for cool 
neutral, and W/W 100% 
> for a carbon sepia hue. But there plenty of other combinations that 
I like as well, such as 
> the 100% CSel curves he already worked out. I know this took a lot 
of work from this team 
> and I just feel so much hope with my vocation when I see someone 
doing things right that 
> can make me think more creatively without having to fight the 
technology.
> 
> Does anyone have any personal choices for curve percentages/ paper 
combinations with 
> QTR and Ultrachrome? I'm curious what others are doing with this 
set up. Finally, how 
> much of this ink is coming out of the color channels? This I am not 
clear about. I mean 
> there is no metamerism and I find it hard to belive that I'm 
getting this subtle of tonal 

> rendition out of just 2 black channels?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> John

Hi Brian,

Since I just started this set up today I can't tell you a great deal. Give me a week. But as for 
soft proofing. I use a Mac in OSX Panther with a calibrated Lacie crt monitor. I have not 
been viewing the color tones on the monitor yet, just the density and contrast. I really 
have never used hue proofing on a monitor for subtle monochrome work. I personally feel 
this is mixing apples( monitor) and oranges( ink on paper). I prefer to do careful print 
tests, catalogue them, and save them to refer to. Ink on paper simply is a different animal 
than mono tones on a monitor. I prefer to work out my color curves, proof them, and 
simply assign that at the time of output.  But I will give this type of  color soft proofing  a 
try. As for judging density and contrast on the screen my results look exactly like the print 
on the monitor. I also have develped a technique over the years where I start out setting 
the midtones of my scans visually on the monitor and then use the info/eye dropper 
density measurements to judge my deep shadows( 5) and highest end values(245). This 
works well for me. Overall using a gamma space of 2.2 on the Mac, my monitor profile 
looks right on in terms of overall tonality with this rip, not light, not dark. But, like I said I 
haven't used the monitor ever to judge monochrome color. To me it is much too subtle a 
process to do that. I judge my test prints in a uniform 5500K diffused flourecent light 
arrangement . Hope this helps. I'll spend a lot of time mixing these curves. It's a whole 
new ball game. But, I'll tell you one thing, I can do an important job tomorrow and feel 
confident that I can nail it. One thing I can say about these 9600 printers, they are all very 
close in tolerance making "generic" profiles really quite good. Thanks for your cool curve 
suggestion. I'll try it.

Best,

John

> 
> Hey John,
> 
> I am using a 9600 and QTR for the last couple of days.  Amazing 
> results. Question for you as we are using presumably similar setups.  
> Are you able to soft proof in PS?  Do you find that the prints that 
> you make at 1440 are dark in relation to your screen (about 2 
> stops)?  I profile with Monaco so I am pretty close on the monitor.  
> Just wondered if you had any words of wisdom with the QTR / 9600 
> combination
> 
> On your question below I love 80%CS/20 N for cool tones but there are 
> a world of possibilities;-)  QTR is an awesome solution to a tough 
> problem!!!
> 
> In terms of ink I assume some Cyan is used as well to cool the tones 
> but I am just speculating.  
> 
> Best regards
> Brian
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
> <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > I just wanted to thank Roy Harrington once again publicly for all 
> he had done for this 
> > global digital monochrome community. He deservs the engineer of the 
> decade award for 
> > QTR, and the way he had made it available to us so unselfishly. I 
> thought is was cool with 
> > straight quad inksets but with Ultrachrome, I'm amazed.
> > 
> > I set up my new 9600 yesterday and today I did 15 variations of 
> monochrome toning of 
> > one  portrait image on H. Photo Rag. These curves are so easy to 
> use and this interface so 
> > amazingly clear and user friendly I don't know what to say. It took 
> me six months to TRY 
> > to do with the Lyson Small Gamut tonable quad inkset what I did in 
> one hour with 
> > UltraChrome and QTR. And the Lyson tonable system never was 
> satisfactory in regard to 
> > metamerism or color purity.
> > 
> > Everyone of these variations I did this first day with QTR are 
> worthy of putting in a gallery. 
> > None of them are THE one, they all have their own qualities and 
> none by the way have any 
> > noticeable metamerism and with my drum scan I have very nice blacks 
> and subtle high 
> > values. And I've just started.
> > 
> > So far if I have a favourites from one days work the hue curve 
> selections that I like ( today)
> > are -  W 50%/ C 50% for a warm neutral, CS 70% / C 30% for cool 
> neutral, and W/W 100% 
> > for a carbon sepia hue. But there plenty of other combinations that 
> I like as well, such as 
> > the 100% CSel curves he already worked out. I know this took a lot 
> of work from this team 
> > and I just feel so much hope with my vocation when I see someone 
> doing things right that 
> > can make me think more creatively without having to fight the 
> technology.
> > 
> > Does anyone have any personal choices for curve percentages/ paper 
> combinations with 
> > QTR and Ultrachrome? I'm curious what others are doing with this 
> set up. Finally, how 
> > much of this ink is coming out of the color channels? This I am not 
> clear about. I mean 
> > there is no metamerism and I find it hard to belive that I'm 
> getting this subtle of tonal 
> > rendition out of just 2 black channels?
> > 
> > Thanks again,
> > 
> > John

Hi John/Brian

Thanks for this info. I have been using Piezography Quad Tone inks 
on an old 1290 for some time with good results, and have just 
invested in 4000 for larger prints. I can't really afford to go down 
the Piezo route with another 4000, so I'm interested in B/W options 
with the Ultrachrome inkset. I've played around with QTR and have a 
couple of questions

1) What Paper choice are you using - does it make any difference? 
I'll be using HahnPhotorag or Somerset Velvet

2) I guess I have to experiment with the ink and gamma sliders - 
(I'm using the 21step grayscale target from the Piezography forum to 
experiment) - but do you have any advice?

Cheers

Richard



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bmg5" 
<bmg5@y...> wrote:
> 
> Hey John,
> 
> I am using a 9600 and QTR for the last couple of days.  Amazing 
> results. Question for you as we are using presumably similar 
setups.  
> Are you able to soft proof in PS?  Do you find that the prints 
that 
> you make at 1440 are dark in relation to your screen (about 2 
> stops)?  I profile with Monaco so I am pretty close on the 
monitor.  
> Just wondered if you had any words of wisdom with the QTR / 9600 
> combination
> 
> On your question below I love 80%CS/20 N for cool tones but there 
are 
> a world of possibilities;-)  QTR is an awesome solution to a tough 
> problem!!!
> 
> In terms of ink I assume some Cyan is used as well to cool the 
tones 
> but I am just speculating.  
> 
> Best regards
> Brian
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
> <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > I just wanted to thank Roy Harrington once again publicly for 
all 
> he had done for this 
> > global digital monochrome community. He deservs the engineer of 
the 
> decade award for 
> > QTR, and the way he had made it available to us so unselfishly. 
I 
> thought is was cool with 
> > straight quad inksets but with Ultrachrome, I'm amazed.
> > 
> > I set up my new 9600 yesterday and today I did 15 variations of 
> monochrome toning of 
> > one  portrait image on H. Photo Rag. These curves are so easy to 
> use and this interface so 
> > amazingly clear and user friendly I don't know what to say. It 
took 
> me six months to TRY 
> > to do with the Lyson Small Gamut tonable quad inkset what I did 
in 
> one hour with 
> > UltraChrome and QTR. And the Lyson tonable system never was 
> satisfactory in regard to 
> > metamerism or color purity.
> > 
> > Everyone of these variations I did this first day with QTR are 
> worthy of putting in a gallery. 
> > None of them are THE one, they all have their own qualities and 
> none by the way have any 
> > noticeable metamerism and with my drum scan I have very nice 
blacks 
> and subtle high 
> > values. And I've just started.
> > 
> > So far if I have a favourites from one days work the hue curve 
> selections that I like ( today)
> > are -  W 50%/ C 50% for a warm neutral, CS 70% / C 30% for cool 
> neutral, and W/W 100% 
> > for a carbon sepia hue. But there plenty of other combinations 
that 
> I like as well, such as 
> > the 100% CSel curves he already worked out. I know this took a 
lot 
> of work from this team 
> > and I just feel so much hope with my vocation when I see someone 
> doing things right that 
> > can make me think more creatively without having to fight the 
> technology.
> > 
> > Does anyone have any personal choices for curve percentages/ 
paper 
> combinations with 
> > QTR and Ultrachrome? I'm curious what others are doing with this 
> set up. Finally, how 
> > much of this ink is coming out of the color channels? This I am 
not 

> clear about. I mean 
> > there is no metamerism and I find it hard to belive that I'm 
> getting this subtle of tonal 
> > rendition out of just 2 black channels?
> > 
> > Thanks again,
> > 
> > John

From the few experiments I did last week most of them were done on H. Photo Rag, a 
good choice because of its good coating and dmax. I haven't tried Somerset because this 
paper doesn't have as deep a max black as some of the other rag media. For many images 
it wouldn't matter though.

 If you have also been working with Piezzotone or similar carbon quad sets like UT you 
might notice that the deepest blacks are easier to achieve with those sets than 
Ultrachrome and max out deeper for the blackest of blacks. Usually with Piezzotone I have 
to back off the deepest blacks in photoshop or risk actually laying down too much ink with 
the pure carbon quad sets. UChrome doesn't have that much black content space to play 
with.

As for media with Roy's curves for color tone with UC and QTR you will notice significant 
difference between the color content with various papers. This just expands your 
possibilities. I tried three papers only so far H. Photo Rag , William Turner, and Hawk MT. 
Condor. I like them all. P. Rag gave me the best range of possibilities, but for the richest 
warmer tones Willilam Turner was very, very nice, and Concorde Rag would move the 
highlights even more toward a very warm result. Papers like UltraSmooth would also give 
easy warm neutral variations due to the slight warming of the highlights of the paper base 
showing through. Papers like Hawk. Mt. Bright White Condor and Legion Matte will make 
the cooler settings even more toward the cool direction because of the additional optical 
brighteners in those papers. Enhanced Matte would be close to H. P. Rag .

What I am going to do is pick 6 hue settings for a spread that I like best and print the 
same identical file using them on 5 different papers, such as mentioned above - such as 
with a neutral, a cool neutral, a warm neutral, a warm, a selenium tone, and a sepia setting 
on the above mentioned papers. You really notice the color of the media a lot more with 
monochrome since the highlights of that paper become so significant. This will give me 
more variations of mono hue than most of my clients can perceive without getting 
confused. I have never seen a system that can give you the capability of matching any 
monochrome color print out there than this one, and without any crossover or 
metamerism at all. 

John