Digital BW, The Print

Can anyone share their experience of using the experimental  UT neutral 
black ink in an Epson 2200?

Thanks

Excellent!  I'm using PKN in both my 2200 and 4000 for printing to RC 
papers, both BO and with toned profiles created with QTR and IJC/OPM.  
PKN is the perfect ink for neutral BO printing on RC in a 2200 or 4000. 
  Very high dmax (I've had up to 2.6) and the BO prints exhibit 
essentially no bronzing.

On Feb 12, 2005, at 6:42 PM, krn_ptr wrote:

>
>
>
> Can anyone share their experience of using the experimental  UT neutral
> black ink in an Epson 2200?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” 
> AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks for your responses, Carl.  This is all new to me.  My attempts at B&W 
printing with the 2200 have been disappointing to say the least.   The only 
clean B&W prints I've had so far, come from my darkroom.  (I haven't given up 
on film yet.)  At least I don't get metamerism with silver prints.  Does the MIS 
UTPKN avoid that problem?

I've been on the MIS website but it's all a little confusing for the beginner.  I'm 
not new to digital printing, but this is my first serious attempt at black and 
white.  

Now, you say you're using RC paper.  I happen to be using Epson Premium 
semi and Velvet right now.  I'm assuming I'd have to create profiles for any 
particular paper I decide to use.  Where does one get QTR and IJC/OPM to 
create these profiles?  In your response to my other email, you seem to be 
saying these can be used to control the Photo black/Matte black and light 
black inks.  What tone is the "carbon" achieved by doing this?

Thanks again,

peter


 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <
scho@m...> wrote:
> Excellent!  I'm using PKN in both my 2200 and 4000 for printing to RC 
> papers, both BO and with toned profiles created with QTR and IJC/OPM.  
> PKN is the perfect ink for neutral BO printing on RC in a 2200 or 4000. 
>   Very high dmax (I've had up to 2.6) and the BO prints exhibit 
> essentially no bronzing.
> 
> On Feb 12, 2005, at 6:42 PM, krn_ptr wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >
> > Can anyone share their experience of using the experimental  UT neutral
> > black ink in an Epson 2200?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> > this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> > keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> > the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> > Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
> > Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
BW, THE 
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
THAT THE "OWNER" 
> > AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
SHALL NOT BE 
> > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
LIMITED TO, 
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
INTANGIBLE 
> > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL 
BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
DAMAGES), 
> > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE 
DIGITAL BW, 
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF 
> > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT 
OF ANY THIRD 
> > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER 

> > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

Peter,

There is no metamerism with MIS PKN (nor with the Epson PK or MK if 
used alone for BO printing, but the hue will be quite warm) and the 
prints are cool/neutral, depending on the paper.  You can also avoid 
metamerism when using the full UC inkset with profiles that use only 
small amounts of the light inks for toning.  QTR is available here:
http://www.harrington.com/QuadToneRIP.html
and here are some sample images of the print tones:
http://www.harrington.com/QTR/UT2-ReadMe.html
The IJC/OPM site is here:
http://www.bowhaus.com/news/ijcnews.htm
Both offer profiles for several paper/ink combinations and you can also 
make your own.  If you print BO then profiles are not required.  See 
Clayton's site for details  of the workflow:
http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn3.htm

Carl

On Feb 12, 2005, at 11:18 PM, krn_ptr wrote:

>
>
> Thanks for your responses, Carl.  This is all new to me.  My attempts 
> at B&W
> printing with the 2200 have been disappointing to say the least.   The 
> only
> clean B&W prints I've had so far, come from my darkroom.  (I haven't 
> given up
> on film yet.)  At least I don't get metamerism with silver prints.  
> Does the MIS
> UTPKN avoid that problem?
>
> I've been on the MIS website but it's all a little confusing for the 
> beginner.  I'm
> not new to digital printing, but this is my first serious attempt at 
> black and
> white.
>
> Now, you say you're using RC paper.  I happen to be using Epson Premium
> semi and Velvet right now.  I'm assuming I'd have to create profiles 
> for any
> particular paper I decide to use.  Where does one get QTR and IJC/OPM 
> to
> create these profiles?  In your response to my other email, you seem 
> to be
> saying these can be used to control the Photo black/Matte black and 
> light
> black inks.  What tone is the "carbon" achieved by doing this?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> peter
>
>
>  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <
> scho@m...> wrote:
>> Excellent!  I'm using PKN in both my 2200 and 4000 for printing to RC
>> papers, both BO and with toned profiles created with QTR and IJC/OPM.
>> PKN is the perfect ink for neutral BO printing on RC in a 2200 or 
>> 4000.
>>   Very high dmax (I've had up to 2.6) and the BO prints exhibit
>> essentially no bronzing.
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2005, at 6:42 PM, krn_ptr wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can anyone share their experience of using the experimental  UT 
>>> neutral
>>> black ink in an Epson 2200?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
>>> resources as they are often being updated.
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
>>> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
>>> this same page.
>>>
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
>>> keep them short.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>>> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
>>> from
>>> the membership without notice.
>>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
>>> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
>>> removed from the membership.
>>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
>>> Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the
>>> Files section:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>>
>>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL
> BW, THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE
> THAT THE "OWNER"
>>> AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
> SHALL NOT BE
>>> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
>>> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT
> LIMITED TO,
>>> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
> INTANGIBLE
>>> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL
> BW, THE PRINT
>>> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES),
>>> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE
> DIGITAL BW,
>>> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF
>>> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT
> OF ANY THIRD
>>> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY
> OTHER
>>> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” 
> AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks again, Carl.  I've started checking out the URLs and I'll probably start 
with QTR to see if I have the success that other people seem to be 
experiencing.  It seems to be a no-risk place to begin, and a fair offer by Roy 
Harrington.  

I looked at Clayton's work flow, and it is almost identical to my BO workflow.  
The main issue for me, was that the Epson ink is very warm, and sepia suits 
only a minor percentage of my work.  Hopefully, the cooler tones available 
through QTR and MIS inks will do the trick.  I'm not as enthused by the dots in 
the highlights as he is...

I'll share my experiences once I get things under control.

You've been very helpful.  
Cheers,

peter


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <
scho@m...> wrote:
> Peter,
> 
> There is no metamerism with MIS PKN (nor with the Epson PK or MK if 
> used alone for BO printing, but the hue will be quite warm) and the 
> prints are cool/neutral, depending on the paper.  You can also avoid 
> metamerism when using the full UC inkset with profiles that use only 
> small amounts of the light inks for toning.  QTR is available here:
> http://www.harrington.com/QuadToneRIP.html
> and here are some sample images of the print tones:
> http://www.harrington.com/QTR/UT2-ReadMe.html
> The IJC/OPM site is here:
> http://www.bowhaus.com/news/ijcnews.htm
> Both offer profiles for several paper/ink combinations and you can also 
> make your own.  If you print BO then profiles are not required.  See 
> Clayton's site for details  of the workflow:
> http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn3.htm
> 
> Carl
> On Feb 12, 2005, at 11:18 PM, krn_ptr wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your responses, Carl.  This is all new to me.  My attempts 
> > at B&W
> > printing with the 2200 have been disappointing to say the least.   The 
> > only
> > clean B&W prints I've had so far, come from my darkroom.  (I haven't 
> > given up
> > on film yet.)  At least I don't get metamerism with silver prints.  
> > Does the MIS
> > UTPKN avoid that problem?
> >
> > I've been on the MIS website but it's all a little confusing for the 
> > beginner.  I'm
> > not new to digital printing, but this is my first serious attempt at 
> > black and
> > white.
> >
> > Now, you say you're using RC paper.  I happen to be using Epson 
Premium
> > semi and Velvet right now.  I'm assuming I'd have to create profiles 
> > for any
> > particular paper I decide to use.  Where does one get QTR and IJC/OPM 
> > to
> > create these profiles?  In your response to my other email, you seem 
> > to be
> > saying these can be used to control the Photo black/Matte black and 
> > light
> > black inks.  What tone is the "carbon" achieved by doing this?
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > peter
> >
> >
> >  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <
> > scho@m...> wrote:
> >> Excellent!  I'm using PKN in both my 2200 and 4000 for printing to RC
> >> papers, both BO and with toned profiles created with QTR and IJC/OPM.
> >> PKN is the perfect ink for neutral BO printing on RC in a 2200 or 
> >> 4000.
> >>   Very high dmax (I've had up to 2.6) and the BO prints exhibit
> >> essentially no bronzing.
> >>
> >> On Feb 12, 2005, at 6:42 PM, krn_ptr wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone share their experience of using the experimental  UT 
> >>> neutral
> >>> black ink in an Epson 2200?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> >>> resources as they are often being updated.
> >>>
> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>>
> >>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
> >>> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
> >>> this same page.
> >>>
> >>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> >>> keep them short.
> >>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> >>> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
> >>> from
> >>> the membership without notice.
> >>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
> >>> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
> >>> removed from the membership.
> >>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> >>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
> >>> Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in 
the
> >>> Files section:
> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >>>
> >>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE 
DIGITAL
> > BW, THE
> >>> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND 
AGREE
> > THAT THE "OWNER"
> >>> AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
> > SHALL NOT BE
> >>> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, 
SPECIAL,
> >>> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT 
NOT
> > LIMITED TO,
> >>> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR 
OTHER
> > INTANGIBLE
> >>> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL
> > BW, THE PRINT
> >>> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF 
SUCH
> > DAMAGES),
> >>> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE
> > DIGITAL BW,
> >>> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
> > ALTERATION OF
> >>> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT
> > OF ANY THIRD
> >>> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) 
ANY
> > OTHER
> >>> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO 
GROUP.
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> > this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> > keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> > the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> > Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
> > Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
BW, THE 
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
THAT THE "OWNER" 
> > AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
SHALL NOT BE 
> > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
LIMITED TO, 
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
INTANGIBLE 
> > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL 
BW, THE PRINT 
> > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
DAMAGES), 
> > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE 
DIGITAL BW, 
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF 
> > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT 
OF ANY THIRD 
> > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER 

> > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >