Digital BW, The Print

Pete,

Do you have pictures that you could post somewhere or send to Martin for the 
files section?  I'm having trouble visualizing the two modifications you 
mentioned.

Helene


> I had the DDS syndrom which is when your prints lose density in the 3/4 
> tones. That is the ink which is mostly affected by the cart rising. But 
> Manny suggested a fix earlier which was to bypass the CIS cartridges 
> completely and run the tubing directly onto the ink stems. That was an 
> instant cure and I am still using that after about 3 months and have no 
> plans to return to the CIS system.
> 
> I actually am running another Piezo system on a 1200 printer and 
> started it off by drilling holes in the bottle tops, running tubing I 
> bought at a hobby shop which is secured in the middle of my printer 
> with a loose tie-strap attached with foam tape. The trick is to raise 
> the printer about 2 inches higher than the bottles to make up for the 
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeas I'm interested too, particularly to the "tie-strap". Is this something
you attached to the lid, that holds the tubes up? If so what do you do when
you need to raise the lid?

Regarding the tubing, is it the same diameter stuff that the CIS uses
between the bottles and the cartridge? I presume you use, what are they
called, bleeder tubes, or relief tubes, in the ink bottles too?

Sounds like a great solution, which should solve some of my financial
problems as well. ;-)

Todd

> Pete,
> 
> Do you have pictures that you could post somewhere or send to Martin for the
> files section?  I'm having trouble visualizing the two modifications you
> mentioned.
> 
> Helene
> 
> 
>> I had the DDS syndrom which is when your prints lose density in the 3/4
>> tones. That is the ink which is mostly affected by the cart rising. But
>> Manny suggested a fix earlier which was to bypass the CIS cartridges
>> completely and run the tubing directly onto the ink stems. That was an
>> instant cure and I am still using that after about 3 months and have no
>> plans to return to the CIS system.
>> 
>> I actually am running another Piezo system on a 1200 printer and
>> started it off by drilling holes in the bottle tops, running tubing I
>> bought at a hobby shop which is secured in the middle of my printer
>> with a loose tie-strap attached with foam tape. The trick is to raise
>> the printer about 2 inches higher than the bottles to make up for the
>>

Pete, Helene, Todd

I would be happy to post any photos or drawings of this set up as 
well as written instructions. Sounds like a good idea. Of course this 
will not help those of us with the newer chipped cartridges but who 
knows?

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., grdglass@a... wrote:
> Pete,
> 
> Do you have pictures that you could post somewhere or send to 
Martin for the 
> files section?  I'm having trouble visualizing the two 
modifications you 
> mentioned.
> 
> Helene
> 
> 
> > I had the DDS syndrom which is when your prints lose density in 
the 3/4 
> > tones. That is the ink which is mostly affected by the cart 
rising. But 
> > Manny suggested a fix earlier which was to bypass the CIS 
cartridges 
> > completely and run the tubing directly onto the ink stems. That 
was an 
> > instant cure and I am still using that after about 3 months and 
have no 
> > plans to return to the CIS system.
> > 
> > I actually am running another Piezo system on a 1200 printer and 
> > started it off by drilling holes in the bottle tops, running 
tubing I 
> > bought at a hobby shop which is secured in the middle of my 
printer 
> > with a loose tie-strap attached with foam tape. The trick is to 
raise 
> > the printer about 2 inches higher than the bottles to make up for 
the 

> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

on 11/19/01 2:59 PM, Martin Wesley wrote:

> Pete, Helene, Todd
> 
> I would be happy to post any photos or drawings of this set up as
> well as written instructions. Sounds like a good idea. Of course this
> will not help those of us with the newer chipped cartridges but who
> knows?

I'm thinking of trying it with the original chip reset routine by Benny
Alberg (something like that) where you use an original cart and then put the
print through a couple of contortions and replace the "cart" with whatever
you want to use.

But I guess ink would fly when you pulled the tube off the nozzle? Oh wait,
the old bulldog clip might work?

Todd

Martin,

I've found that, with a little care, chips can easily be pried intact off 
the cartridge bodies and re-used.  The chip needs only to be pressed up 
against the contact inside the printer head.  There should be some way to 
do this without the cartridge body in place.

Chris Patti

At 07:59 PM 11/19/01 +0000, you wrote:

>Pete, Helene, Todd
>
>I would be happy to post any photos or drawings of this set up as
>well as written instructions. Sounds like a good idea. Of course this
>will not help those of us with the newer chipped cartridges but who
>knows?
>
>Martin
>
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., grdglass@a... wrote:
> > Pete,
> >
> > Do you have pictures that you could post somewhere or send to
>Martin for the
> > files section?  I'm having trouble visualizing the two
>modifications you
> > mentioned.
> >
> > Helene
> >
> >
> > > I had the DDS syndrom which is when your prints lose density in
>the 3/4
> > > tones. That is the ink which is mostly affected by the cart
>rising. But
> > > Manny suggested a fix earlier which was to bypass the CIS
>cartridges
> > > completely and run the tubing directly onto the ink stems. That
>was an
> > > instant cure and I am still using that after about 3 months and
>have no
> > > plans to return to the CIS system.
> > >
> > > I actually am running another Piezo system on a 1200 printer and
> > > started it off by drilling holes in the bottle tops, running
>tubing I
> > > bought at a hobby shop which is secured in the middle of my
>printer
> > > with a loose tie-strap attached with foam tape. The trick is to
>raise
> > > the printer about 2 inches higher than the bottles to make up for
>the
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Todd,

I am pretty sure you have to have a chip for the printer to read on 
start-up. I have the NoMoreCarts CIS and at the first print after 
turning the printer on, it asks if I want to use the non-Epson carts. 
So it is checking.

It might be possible to cut the carts open, remove the sponge and 
attach the CIS lines to the outlet of the cart. If anyone tries this, 
let us all know.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner <tflash@e...> 
wrote:
> on 11/19/01 2:59 PM, Martin Wesley wrote:
> 
> > Pete, Helene, Todd
> > 
> > I would be happy to post any photos or drawings of this set up as
> > well as written instructions. Sounds like a good idea. Of course 
this
> > will not help those of us with the newer chipped cartridges but 
who
> > knows?
> 
> I'm thinking of trying it with the original chip reset routine by 
Benny
> Alberg (something like that) where you use an original cart and 
then put the
> print through a couple of contortions and replace the "cart" with 
whatever
> you want to use.
> 
> But I guess ink would fly when you pulled the tube off the nozzle? 
Oh wait,

> the old bulldog clip might work?
> 
> Todd

Martin,

Actually you can modify the chipped cart to do this (or any cart), 
but I would not recommend this method. One of the purposes of the 
carts is to filter the inks just in case, and you totally lose that 
ability with this method. You may get lucky, but I would prefer not 
to take that chance.

Terry

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> Pete, Helene, Todd
> 
> I would be happy to post any photos or drawings of this set up as 
> well as written instructions. Sounds like a good idea. Of course 
this 
> will not help those of us with the newer chipped cartridges but who 
> knows?
> 
> Martin
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., grdglass@a... wrote:
> > Pete,
> > 
> > Do you have pictures that you could post somewhere or send to 
> Martin for the 
> > files section?  I'm having trouble visualizing the two 
> modifications you 
> > mentioned.
> > 
> > Helene
> > 
> > 
> > > I had the DDS syndrom which is when your prints lose density in 
> the 3/4 
> > > tones. That is the ink which is mostly affected by the cart 
> rising. But 
> > > Manny suggested a fix earlier which was to bypass the CIS 
> cartridges 
> > > completely and run the tubing directly onto the ink stems. That 
> was an 
> > > instant cure and I am still using that after about 3 months and 
> have no 
> > > plans to return to the CIS system.
> > > 
> > > I actually am running another Piezo system on a 1200 printer 
and 
> > > started it off by drilling holes in the bottle tops, running 
> tubing I 
> > > bought at a hobby shop which is secured in the middle of my 
> printer 
> > > with a loose tie-strap attached with foam tape. The trick is to 
> raise 
> > > the printer about 2 inches higher than the bottles to make up 
for 

> the 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Actually you can modify the chipped cart to do this (or any cart),
>but I would not recommend this method. One of the purposes of the
>carts is to filter the inks just in case, and you totally lose that
>ability with this method. You may get lucky, but I would prefer not
>to take that chance.
>
>Terry
>
>  > > > Manny suggested a fix earlier which was to bypass the CIS
>>  cartridges
>  > > > completely and run the tubing directly onto the ink stems.

Have you try to experiment with "inlet filters"? These filters are 
special very small filters used for medical and 
analytical/bio/organic chemistry. One may very easy attach this 
filter on beggining of tube in botle, so ink could be filtered. The 
only problem with pigmented inks is to find apropriate porosity of 
filters.

Martin (II)

Matin (II),

Thanks for the suggestion, but I figure if Epson thought the sponge 
wasn't needed, they could have saved more money in the design of the 
carts and left them out, IOW it is there for a reason. 

If the ink is properly formulated, we should not have to resort to 
such potentially harmful measures just to get it to work in a printer 
it is supposed to work in.

Terry

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Martin Sluka 
<martinsluka@m...> wrote:

SNIP

> >  > > > Manny suggested a fix earlier which was to bypass the CIS
> >>  cartridges
> >  > > > completely and run the tubing directly onto the ink stems.
> 
> Have you try to experiment with "inlet filters"? These filters are 
> special very small filters used for medical and 
> analytical/bio/organic chemistry. One may very easy attach this 
> filter on beggining of tube in botle, so ink could be filtered. The 
> only problem with pigmented inks is to find apropriate porosity of 
> filters.
> 
> Martin (II)

>Matin (II),
>
>Thanks for the suggestion, but I figure if Epson thought the sponge
>wasn't needed, they could have saved more money in the design of the
>carts and left them out, IOW it is there for a reason.

One obvious reason to me is that pehaps one third of the ink they sold
you in the cartridge will never be used (it remains stuck in the sponge),
and that little insignificant piece of sponge will increase cartridges
sales by 50 %  for Epson !

>If the ink is properly formulated, we should not have to resort to
>such potentially harmful measures just to get it to work in a printer
>it is supposed to work in.
>
>Terry
>
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Martin Sluka
><martinsluka@m...> wrote:
>
>SNIP
>
>>  >  > > > Manny suggested a fix earlier which was to bypass the CIS
>>  >>  cartridges
>>  >  > > > completely and run the tubing directly onto the ink stems.
>>
>>  Have you try to experiment with "inlet filters"? These filters are
>>  special very small filters used for medical and
>>  analytical/bio/organic chemistry. One may very easy attach this
>>  filter on beggining of tube in botle, so ink could be filtered. The
>>  only problem with pigmented inks is to find apropriate porosity of
>>  filters.
>>
>>  Martin (II)
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
>and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- Include your full name with your message.
>- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
>to keep them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
>various resources on the homepage.
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-- 
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Jean-Michel Paris 
<jmparis@...>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

>Matin (II),
>
>Thanks for the suggestion, but I figure if Epson thought the sponge
>wasn't needed, they could have saved more money in the design of the
>carts and left them out, IOW it is there for a reason.
>Terry

>One obvious reason to me is that pehaps one third of the ink they sold
>you in the cartridge will never be used (it remains stuck in the sponge),
>and that little insignificant piece of sponge will increase cartridges
>sales by 50 %  for Epson !
>Jean-Michel Paris

Sponge - it should mechanicaly blocked the "plash" by head moving and 
increase of hydraulical resistance of system - reason you should 
raise the printer if you use system without carts , too.

>If the ink is properly formulated, we should not have to resort to
>such potentially harmful measures just to get it to work in a printer
>it is supposed to work in.
>Terry

But there are potential unknown photo-effects due to light - because 
in normal conditions all ink is in dark. So there could be some 
photocoagulation, photopolymerisation, ... Not the sponge itself, but 
in the botom of carts is small filter covering outlet to filter 
impurities.

The reason to try "input filters" are above-mentioned.

Another problem could be an oxygen - reason, why the original CIS 
uses Tygon tubes and Nalgene botles - they both are non penetrable 
for oxygen molecules.

Martin (II)

Just a thought:  Why not take an old cart and cut off the top, remove the 
sponge, and cut off the outlet ports.  The cut up cart would hold the chip in 
position, and the tubes can go through the holes to the ink pipes.  This way, 
the cart can be withdrawn for chip resetting without removing the tubes.

A possible disadvantage to direct feed is that the carts filter the ink 
through the sponge and a small filter at the bottom of the cart on top of the 
outlet ports.  Without the filtering, clogs are more likely from contaminants 
in the ink.  Also, the sponge tends to control the ink pressure at the 
nozzles, reducing the likelihood of flooding the nozzles because of over 
pressure, and starvation due to under pressure, from the level of the inks in 
the bottles.

I hope the technical folks at Cone's shop will look into this.

> From: Martin Sluka <martinsluka@...>
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:35:41 +0100
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] CIS without Carts ­ filtration of ink
> 
>> Actually you can modify the chipped cart to do this (or any cart),
>> but I would not recommend this method. One of the purposes of the
>> carts is to filter the inks just in case, and you totally lose that
>> ability with this method. You may get lucky, but I would prefer not
>> to take that chance.
>> 
>> Terry
>> 
>>>>> Manny suggested a fix earlier which was to bypass the CIS
>>> cartridges
>>>>> completely and run the tubing directly onto the ink stems.
> 
> Have you try to experiment with "inlet filters"? These filters are
> special very small filters used for medical and
> analytical/bio/organic chemistry. One may very easy attach this
> filter on beggining of tube in botle, so ink could be filtered. The
> only problem with pigmented inks is to find apropriate porosity of
> filters.
> 
> Martin (II)
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>