Digital BW, The Print

I recently read an article from,John Paul Caponigro and his use of 
using the channels in photoshop.  He targeted each channel as 
seperate layers and reduced there opacitiy and added a forth 
lightness channel. He than created layer masks so he could apply 
curves to each one.  I've been just turning the image to 
monochromatic and adjusting the sliders each at a time, getting the 
look I wanted.  Then I would use curves.  Is his way superior? or am 
I totally of track here?  Jeff

> From: jgm818 [mailto:jgm818@...]
>
> I recently read an article from,John Paul Caponigro and his use of
> using the channels in photoshop.  He targeted each channel as
> seperate layers and reduced there opacitiy and added a forth
> lightness channel. He than created layer masks so he could apply
> curves to each one.  I've been just turning the image to
> monochromatic and adjusting the sliders each at a time, getting the
> look I wanted.  Then I would use curves.  Is his way superior? or am
> I totally of track here?  Jeff

It all depends upon the image. If I understand your descriptions correctly,
his method allows a separate curves for each color, and your's doesn't.
That's extremely versatile, but often unnecessary. I don't think there's any
shortcut--you have to look at the channels in each image, and watch what
happens as you mix them, and decide as you go along what techniques will be
needed to pull out the particular detail you're trying to capture.
Sometimes, the channel mixer is all you need; sometimes, it's useful to use
Hue/Sat to pick out a narrow color range to manipulate (narrower than the R,
G or B channel); and sometimes there's no alternative but to convert the
channels into separate layers and manually paint the layer masks. It's an
art.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jgm818" <jgm818@a...> wrote:
> Hello Jeff,

I use:
1. channel mixer
2. hue / sat layer inbetween background and channel mixer to fine tune the image.
3. curves on top of channel mixer to tweak as needed.
4. any other specific area adjustments as needed.
5. tone if it needs it.

This works very well for me. Channels as layers also works very well. I think it's just a 
matter of choosing a method that works for you then learn it well. If it stops working, then 
try something else.

As we all know, it seems there are at least a dozen ways to do the same thing in 
Photoshop!

Steve

> I recently read an article from,John Paul Caponigro and his use of 
> using the channels in photoshop.  He targeted each channel as 
> seperate layers and reduced there opacitiy and added a forth 
> lightness channel. He than created layer masks so he could apply 
> curves to each one.  I've been just turning the image to 
> monochromatic and adjusting the sliders each at a time, getting the 
> look I wanted.  Then I would use curves.  Is his way superior? or am 
> I totally of track here?  Jeff

Has any one tried Convert To B&W Pro?Its a plug in
thats supposed to be better that the channel
mixer.Francis Ford
--- "Paul D. DeRocco" <pderocco@...> wrote:

> > From: jgm818 [mailto:jgm818@...]
> >
> > I recently read an article from,John Paul
> Caponigro and his use of
> > using the channels in photoshop.  He targeted each
> channel as
> > seperate layers and reduced there opacitiy and
> added a forth
> > lightness channel. He than created layer masks so
> he could apply
> > curves to each one.  I've been just turning the
> image to
> > monochromatic and adjusting the sliders each at a
> time, getting the
> > look I wanted.  Then I would use curves.  Is his
> way superior? or am
> > I totally of track here?  Jeff
> 
> It all depends upon the image. If I understand your
> descriptions correctly,
> his method allows a separate curves for each color,
> and your's doesn't.
> That's extremely versatile, but often unnecessary. I
> don't think there's any
> shortcut--you have to look at the channels in each
> image, and watch what
> happens as you mix them, and decide as you go along
> what techniques will be
> needed to pull out the particular detail you're
> trying to capture.
> Sometimes, the channel mixer is all you need;
> sometimes, it's useful to use
> Hue/Sat to pick out a narrow color range to
> manipulate (narrower than the R,
> G or B channel); and sometimes there's no
> alternative but to convert the
> channels into separate layers and manually paint the
> layer masks. It's an
> art.
> 
> --
> 
> Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
> Paul                mailto:pderocco@...
> 
> 

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Do you remember where you read that article on this technique?

John



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul D. DeRocco" 
<pderocco@i...> wrote:

> > From: jgm818 [mailto:jgm818@a...]
> >
> > I recently read an article from,John Paul Caponigro and his use of
> > using the channels in photoshop.  He targeted each channel as
> > seperate layers and reduced there opacitiy and added a forth
> > lightness channel. He than created layer masks so he could apply
> > curves to each one.  I've been just turning the image to
> > monochromatic and adjusting the sliders each at a time, getting the
> > look I wanted.  Then I would use curves.  Is his way superior? or am
> > I totally of track here?  Jeff
> 
> It all depends upon the image. If I understand your descriptions correctly,
> his method allows a separate curves for each color, and your's doesn't.
> That's extremely versatile, but often unnecessary. I don't think there's any
> shortcut--you have to look at the channels in each image, and watch what
> happens as you mix them, and decide as you go along what techniques will be
> needed to pull out the particular detail you're trying to capture.
> Sometimes, the channel mixer is all you need; sometimes, it's useful to use
> Hue/Sat to pick out a narrow color range to manipulate (narrower than the R,
> G or B channel); and sometimes there's no alternative but to convert the
> channels into separate layers and manually paint the layer masks. It's an
> art.
> 
> --
> 
> Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
> Paul                mailto:pderocco@i...

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> 
> Do you remember where you read that article on this technique?
> 
> John
> 
> 
http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phs8bwconversion.pdf

http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/ps_pro_primers.html
And the action is just the next one on this page.

Cheers,
Andre

Sounds like an instructive article! If you don't mind my asking, where 
did you read it?  Peter G.

On Mar 1, 2005, at 8:51 PM, jgm818 wrote:

>
>
> I recently read an article from,John Paul Caponigro and his use of
> using the channels in photoshop. 
>

I just heard back from Epson UK's Technical Escalation Team re the lack of
support for BO printing to RC paper with the Epson 2100 driver.  Here is
their response - a bit amusing:

"Dear Sir,

Thank you for you communication concerning the above issue.

Please find attached a PDF document that hopefully explains the nature of
monochrome printing and greyscale.

 <<Greyscale.pdf>> 

With the samples you have sent in I can confirm that with the standard
printer driver these are well within specification. As detailed in the
attachment it is not possible to create a printer with a standard generic
profile that will print exact greyscale on all units across the entire range
of EPSON media.

Exact greyscale printing is a special case that requires accuracy in the
profile that is unrealistic to expect 'out of the box'.

I can confirm that the 'Black only' option is not intended for greyscale
printing. As discussed in the attached document that is not how EPSON
achieve greyscale with their range of inks and media. 'Black only' is meant
for text documents on plain inkjet paper.

Below is the link for ICC profile provided free on the EPSON USA web site:

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/EditorialAnnouncement.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=
yes&oid=42114986 
<http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/EditorialAnnouncement.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie
=yes%26oid=42114986>

As mentioned in the document, although you should find these profiles that
are matched to specific media and driver settings more accurate than the
generic EPSON drivers, there will be variations due to manufacturing
tolerances and environment."

They confused my request for the ability to centre images using the Standard
driver with the Black Only issue.  The link is session expired but no doubt
points to Bruce Atkins' profiles.  In any case they are way out of touch
with the B&W community.  I invited them to look in on this forum and I can
only suggest that those with 2100s, R800s and, soon, R1800s that wish to use
a Black Only workflow start banging on their door.  Here are some numbers:

UK

 From within the UK  please contact us on:
 Support & Warranty line: 0870 44 3 77 66
 Open 9 a.m. to 5.30 p.m. Monday to Friday,
 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. Saturday
 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. Sunday
 Calls are charged at BT national rate.
 Republic of Ireland

 In the Republic of Ireland  please contact us on:
 Stylus support & warranty calls: 01 679 9016
 Non-Stylus support & warranty calls: 01 679 9015
 Denmark 

 In Denmark  please contact us on: 70 279 273 for all support issues.
 Open 9am to 5pm Monday-Friday
 Finland 

 In Finland  please contact us on: 0201 552090 for all support issues.
 Open 9am to 5pm Monday-Friday
Norway 

 In Norway please contact us on: 815 35 180 for all support issues
 Open 9am to 5pm Monday-Friday
Sweden 

 In Sweden  please contact us on: 077-140 01 34 for all support issues.
 Open 9am to 5pm Monday-Friday

There was an attachment in their response which tried to give me a lesson in
"the meaning of Greyscale and the nature of ink".  Here are some excerpts:

" With Traditional Monochrome photography and printing ŒBlack and White¹ is
a misnomer. No  monochrome image is pure greyscale, they all have a colour.
The colour is generally neutral  and is monochromatic (shades of one colour
only).   Therefore it is more exact to describe this style of photography as
monochrome.   When reproducing monochrome images it is not always necessary
to print a pure grayscale.  In fact it is not always possible as even the
paper has a colour that is impossible to disguise.

Take a look at the image above on your computer screen (a simple B&W image).
This is a good example of a  greyscale image. Now take a closer look, being
careful to observe any safety instructions  associated with your display
equipment.  

On LCD and CRT monitors you will see:  (image)      As you can see, the
greyscale is made up of purely Red Green and Blue.

So what defines the  colour Grey? An object is described as Black when no
visible wavelength is reflected, and  described as White when all visible
light is reflected. So:  Black = 0 Blue + 0 Green + 0 Red  White = All Blue
+ All Green + All Red  The common point is that the Blue Green and Red
values are equal. This is how Grey is  defined:  Grey = Equal parts Blue +
Green + Red  

So how is Greyscale printed? Not by printing Black only.   This tries to
create Grey by using Black dots on a paper base: The Black absorbing the
light  and the paper reflecting all colours creating the illusion of a Grey.
However this suffers from  two major drawbacks:  1)  The colour of the paper
will introduce a colour cast.  2)  The special nature of Gloss Black ink and
the way it adheres to Gloss paper makes  gradation difficult to achieve.
The best pure Greyscale is achieved by using all colours, this is the nature
of true Grey.    Note: With Pigment Ink Black ink differs from all the other
colours in its composition. This  produces special considerations when
printing in Black on coated media. With Matte and  normal paper the Black
ink is absorbed more into the paper, and with the inclusion of Matte  Black
and Light Black the occurrence of these issues is minimised. However with
Gloss Black  and Coated Media the best Greyscale is not achieved using Black
Ink Only. The option of  Black Ink Only is for primarily for printing text
on plain paper.    Printing Neutral Monochrome and Pure Greyscale Exact
colour matching is not possible, as although the colour gamut of modern
EPSON inks  and media is impressive it cannot cover all possible colours.
Therefore the colour  management in a printer driver has to be dynamic, i.e.
it modifies colours out of the printable  range possible with the inks and
media whilst still preserving the gradations of tone.  This makes printing
Greyscale a special and difficult function to achieve in a colour printer,
though not impossible. As discussed before Greyscale requires an exact equal
balance of all  colours. Greyscale printing needs an exact match for the
balance to be correct across all  types of media. Even a very slight
imbalance can produce a slight and noticeable colour cast.  The Greyscale
option in the driver will produce good monochrome prints with a neutral tone
but the Generic profile will not produce exact Greyscale prints due to the
dynamic nature of  the colour management and the need to allow for
tolerances in manufacture and variations in  environment. The only way to
achieve exact Greyscale is with a consistant and coherent  workflow and
through colour profiling of the printer for specific media and specific
settings in  the printer driver.  EPSON do offer this service for their
range of printers. EPSON also offer downloadable ICC  Profiles for specific
media (donated by Bill Atkinson) for their high end and Professional range
of ink jet printers. Another tool EPSON offers for some printers on a
Windows operating  system is the EPSON Greybalancer. This will provide the
calibration necessary to achieve  neutral toned monochrome prints.

Hi John,

I saw it on ImagingRevue's website when I was a member. I think it's posted somewhere on Adobe's website, too. Do a search on Adobe for John's name. If you can't find it, e-mail me off-list and I'll send you a Word doc and the action.

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: "john dean" <deanwork2003@...>
> Date: 2005/03/02 Wed AM 11:28:24 EST
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] channel mixing
> 
> 
> 
> Do you remember where you read that article on this technique?

It is the same as the "split channels" technique introduced by Glenn
Mitchell, except with the addition of painting in the channels via masks.

> From: <Alan.Huntley@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 14:16:40 -0500
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: [Digital BW] channel mixing
> 
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> I saw it on ImagingRevue's website when I was a member. I think it's posted
> somewhere on Adobe's website, too. Do a search on Adobe for John's name. If
> you can't find it, e-mail me off-list and I'll send you a Word doc and the
> action.
> 
> Alan Huntley
> 
>> 
>> From: "john dean" <deanwork2003@...>
>> Date: 2005/03/02 Wed AM 11:28:24 EST
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] channel mixing
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Do you remember where you read that article on this technique?
> 
>

Who makes it?

Thanks, Valery Rizzo

Francis Ford wrote:

> Has any one tried Convert To B&W Pro?Its a plug in
> thats supposed to be better that the channel
> mixer.Francis Ford
> --- "Paul D. DeRocco" <pderocco@...> wrote:
>
> > > From: jgm818 [mailto:jgm818@...]
> > >
> > > I recently read an article from,John Paul
> > Caponigro and his use of
> > > using the channels in photoshop.  He targeted each
> > channel as
> > > seperate layers and reduced there opacitiy and
> > added a forth
> > > lightness channel. He than created layer masks so
> > he could apply
> > > curves to each one.  I've been just turning the
> > image to
> > > monochromatic and adjusting the sliders each at a
> > time, getting the
> > > look I wanted.  Then I would use curves.  Is his
> > way superior? or am
> > > I totally of track here?  Jeff
> >
> > It all depends upon the image. If I understand your
> > descriptions correctly,
> > his method allows a separate curves for each color,
> > and your's doesn't.
> > That's extremely versatile, but often unnecessary. I
> > don't think there's any
> > shortcut--you have to look at the channels in each
> > image, and watch what
> > happens as you mix them, and decide as you go along
> > what techniques will be
> > needed to pull out the particular detail you're
> > trying to capture.
> > Sometimes, the channel mixer is all you need;
> > sometimes, it's useful to use
> > Hue/Sat to pick out a narrow color range to
> > manipulate (narrower than the R,
> > G or B channel); and sometimes there's no
> > alternative but to convert the
> > channels into separate layers and manually paint the
> > layer masks. It's an
> > art.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
> > Paul                mailto:pderocco@...
> >
> >
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Try a search using "B&W Pro software" 

==-----Original Message-----
==From: Valery Rizzo [mailto:vrizzo@...] 
==Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 4:14 PM
==To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
==Subject: Re: [Digital BW] channel mixing
==
==
==
==Who makes it?
==
==Thanks, Valery Rizzo
==
==Francis Ford wrote:
==
==> Has any one tried Convert To B&W Pro?Its a plug in thats 
==supposed to 
==> be better that the channel mixer.Francis Ford

Yes the B&W conversion method suggested by JPC is superb. I put 
together a PS/Action (I called it LRGB conversion) and works 
beautifully if what you want to do is mask-in different areas of the 
inage from individual channel(s) into a final composite! If you would 
like my 'action' send me an email
cheers
Vartkes

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Seth" 
<seth@m...> wrote:

> Try a search using "B&W Pro software" 
> 
> ==-----Original Message-----
> ==From: Valery Rizzo [mailto:vrizzo@r...] 
> ==Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 4:14 PM
> ==To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> ==Subject: Re: [Digital BW] channel mixing
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==Who makes it?
> ==
> ==Thanks, Valery Rizzo
> ==
> ==Francis Ford wrote:
> ==
> ==> Has any one tried Convert To B&W Pro?Its a plug in thats 
> ==supposed to 
> ==> be better that the channel mixer.Francis Ford

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> If you go to <www.abobe.com/digitalmag/ps_pro_primers> you'll find both an article 
and an action to download.

> Do you remember where you read that article on this technique?
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul D. DeRocco" 
> <pderocco@i...> wrote:
> > > From: jgm818 [mailto:jgm818@a...]
> > >
> > > I recently read an article from,John Paul Caponigro and his use of
> > > using the channels in photoshop.  He targeted each channel as
> > > seperate layers and reduced there opacitiy and added a forth
> > > lightness channel. He than created layer masks so he could apply
> > > curves to each one.  I've been just turning the image to
> > > monochromatic and adjusting the sliders each at a time, getting the
> > > look I wanted.  Then I would use curves.  Is his way superior? or am
> > > I totally of track here?  Jeff
> > 
> > It all depends upon the image. If I understand your descriptions correctly,
> > his method allows a separate curves for each color, and your's doesn't.
> > That's extremely versatile, but often unnecessary. I don't think there's any
> > shortcut--you have to look at the channels in each image, and watch what
> > happens as you mix them, and decide as you go along what techniques will be
> > needed to pull out the particular detail you're trying to capture.
> > Sometimes, the channel mixer is all you need; sometimes, it's useful to use
> > Hue/Sat to pick out a narrow color range to manipulate (narrower than the R,
> > G or B channel); and sometimes there's no alternative but to convert the
> > channels into separate layers and manually paint the layer masks. It's an
> > art.
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
> > Paul                mailto:pderocco@i...

> One thing that you also might try after you have used the channel mixer in
> whatever variation is to create a copy of the image employ a curves adjustment
> to achieve a specific affect and then ³apply image² command with a blending ­
> perhaps with a blending mode on a back ground copy. I haven¹t done the testing
> but this technique seems very powerful and less damaging. See Dan Margolis
> book ­ chpt. 5 Plate blending as Poetry. I would be interested to hear if
> others are using this technique for B&W.
> 
> Steve
> 
>> > Do you remember where you read that article on this technique?
>> > 
>> > John
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul D. DeRocco"
>> > <pderocco@i...> wrote:
>>>> > > > From: jgm818 [mailto:jgm818@a...]
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I recently read an article from,John Paul Caponigro and his use of
>>>> > > > using the channels in photoshop.  He targeted each channel as
>>>> > > > seperate layers and reduced there opacitiy and added a forth
>>>> > > > lightness channel. He than created layer masks so he could apply
>>>> > > > curves to each one.  I've been just turning the image to
>>>> > > > monochromatic and adjusting the sliders each at a time, getting the
>>>> > > > look I wanted.  Then I would use curves.  Is his way superior? or am
>>>> > > > I totally of track here?  Jeff
>>> > > 
>>> > > It all depends upon the image. If I understand your descriptions
>>> correctly,
>>> > > his method allows a separate curves for each color, and your's doesn't.
>>> > > That's extremely versatile, but often unnecessary. I don't think there's
any
>>> > > shortcut--you have to look at the channels in each image, and watch what
>>> > > happens as you mix them, and decide as you go along what techniques will
be
>>> > > needed to pull out the particular detail you're trying to capture.
>>> > > Sometimes, the channel mixer is all you need; sometimes, it's useful to
use
>>> > > Hue/Sat to pick out a narrow color range to manipulate (narrower than
>>> the R,
>>> > > G or B channel); and sometimes there's no alternative but to convert the
>>> > > channels into separate layers and manually paint the layer masks. It's
an
>>> > > art.
>>> > > 
>>> > > --
>>> > > 
>>> > > Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
>>> > > Paul                mailto:pderocco@i...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
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> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
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> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE ³OWNER² AND
> ³MODERATORS² OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
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--
Steve Smith
photosmith@...
401-453-1596 




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