Digital BW, The Print

Thanks for addressing that--I was never sure if the double sided papers were coated or not (had I looked further at inkjetart.com I would have realized this--at least ones like Hahnemuhle PHotorag which I use single sided).  I have used non-coated art papers in the past--primarily with my 1280.  I bought a sample pack from Inkjetart a good while back--still may have some (some Arches papers, maybe a Somerset, etc.).  However, with the 2200 which I've used as my primary printer for over 2 years  I have stuck to just a few papers which I find good (which are coated, I know)--and I certainly do know that the papers, even with good paper profiles and color printing--or montone-- will affect the print--warmer, cooler, etc.--Thus why I'm surprised, I don't know--except perhaps I thought a RIP would handle this differently since printing directly out of PS/paper profile and not using the RIP DID give me a quite 'neutral' print--or at least a much cooler version.  

Using this RIP, however, seems to push me to start over, more or less, to find the best curves for its use.  Using PS/paper profiles I generally 'toned' my prints slightly (duotones or otherwise) to sneak by (hopefully) the metamerism issue.  I've been considering making the 1280 a dedicated b/w printer for several years, but if I can arrive at curves/presets I like without metamerism I think this is the better way for me to go (QTR).  I print a good bit but to keep 2 Epson printers going (for me that seems to mean printing a fair amount--which has kept my printers pretty much clog free) may mean more printing that I'm doing at present--and backup of more inks than I want to do.

As far as printing on the wrong side--I've done that in the past LOL--Velvet is one of the hardest to discern for me (probably), so I'm very careful how I remove the paper from the pack.  EEM is one of the easier papers to tell--but I get your point about printing on a coated and non-coated paper.

Thanks for your input--this list is always worthwhile for the good info.  I  change my email preferences off and on since its often quite busy and when I'm not getting single emails or digest, forget to read daily and lose track--altho' recent reading is what brought my attention to QTR..  

Diane

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Scott Graham 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:49 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: QTR surprises....



  To address just one of your points:

  all inkjet paper is coated.  Only printing on a watercolor paper (i.e. blotter actually used for 
  watercolor) will avoid a coating.  We commonly call "nice art papers" watercolor paper but 
  they aren't literally.

  and coatings certainly make a difference: color of the coating is the obvious, but the way 
  they absorb (or not) various inks, etc.

  To demo that, when your EEM comes in, print a test on the front, and then one on the 
  back (uncoated and diff color) of a sheet.  What a difference, and if you it withour realizing 
  it like I did once, what confusion  :)

  Scott



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Velvet is one of the hardest to discern for me (probably), so I'm very
careful how I remove the paper from the pack."

Me too, and I isomehow managed to lose the instructions that come with the
paper so I don't know which side from the box is the correct side. I can see
that one side looks a little rougher or coarser than the other. Which is the
correct side for printing?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Diane Fields" <picnic@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: QTR surprises....



Thanks for addressing that--I was never sure if the double sided papers were
coated or not (had I looked further at inkjetart.com I would have realized
this--at least ones like Hahnemuhle PHotorag which I use single sided).  I
have used non-coated art papers in the past--primarily with my 1280.  I
bought a sample pack from Inkjetart a good while back--still may have some
(some Arches papers, maybe a Somerset, etc.).  However, with the 2200 which
I've used as my primary printer for over 2 years  I have stuck to just a few
papers which I find good (which are coated, I know)--and I certainly do know
that the papers, even with good paper profiles and color printing--or
montone-- will affect the print--warmer, cooler, etc.--Thus why I'm
surprised, I don't know--except perhaps I thought a RIP would handle this
differently since printing directly out of PS/paper profile and not using
the RIP DID give me a quite 'neutral' print--or at least a much cooler
version.

Using this RIP, however, seems to push me to start over, more or less, to
find the best curves for its use.  Using PS/paper profiles I generally
'toned' my prints slightly (duotones or otherwise) to sneak by (hopefully)
the metamerism issue.  I've been considering making the 1280 a dedicated b/w
printer for several years, but if I can arrive at curves/presets I like
without metamerism I think this is the better way for me to go (QTR).  I
print a good bit but to keep 2 Epson printers going (for me that seems to
mean printing a fair amount--which has kept my printers pretty much clog
free) may mean more printing that I'm doing at present--and backup of more
inks than I want to do.

As far as printing on the wrong side--I've done that in the past LOL--Velvet
is one of the hardest to discern for me (probably), so I'm very careful how
I remove the paper from the pack.  EEM is one of the easier papers to
tell--but I get your point about printing on a coated and non-coated paper.

Thanks for your input--this list is always worthwhile for the good info.  I
change my email preferences off and on since its often quite busy and when
I'm not getting single emails or digest, forget to read daily and lose
track--altho' recent reading is what brought my attention to QTR..

Diane
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Scott Graham
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:49 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: QTR surprises....



  To address just one of your points:

  all inkjet paper is coated.  Only printing on a watercolor paper (i.e.
blotter actually used for
  watercolor) will avoid a coating.  We commonly call "nice art papers"
watercolor paper but
  they aren't literally.

  and coatings certainly make a difference: color of the coating is the
obvious, but the way
  they absorb (or not) various inks, etc.

  To demo that, when your EEM comes in, print a test on the front, and then
one on the
  back (uncoated and diff color) of a sheet.  What a difference, and if you
it withour realizing
  it like I did once, what confusion  :)

  Scott



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Lick your thumb and forefinger (don't slobber).  Then grab a corner 
of the paper where you won't be printing between your wet thumb and 
forefinger.  The stickier side is the printable side.  In most cases, 
but not all, the whiter side is the side you print on.  I prefer the 
wet finger test.

Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "B. Ellis" 
<bellis60@v...> wrote:
> "Velvet is one of the hardest to discern for me (probably), so I'm 
very
> careful how I remove the paper from the pack."
> 
> Me too, and I isomehow managed to lose the instructions that come 
with the
> paper so I don't know which side from the box is the correct side. 
I can see
> that one side looks a little rougher or coarser than the other. 
Which is the
> correct side for printing?
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Diane Fields" <picnic@c...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 12:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: QTR surprises....
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for addressing that--I was never sure if the double sided 
papers were
> coated or not (had I looked further at inkjetart.com I would have 
realized
> this--at least ones like Hahnemuhle PHotorag which I use single 
sided).  I
> have used non-coated art papers in the past--primarily with my 
1280.  I
> bought a sample pack from Inkjetart a good while back--still may 
have some
> (some Arches papers, maybe a Somerset, etc.).  However, with the 
2200 which
> I've used as my primary printer for over 2 years  I have stuck to 
just a few
> papers which I find good (which are coated, I know)--and I 
certainly do know
> that the papers, even with good paper profiles and color printing--
or
> montone-- will affect the print--warmer, cooler, etc.--Thus why I'm
> surprised, I don't know--except perhaps I thought a RIP would 
handle this
> differently since printing directly out of PS/paper profile and not 
using
> the RIP DID give me a quite 'neutral' print--or at least a much 
cooler
> version.
> 
> Using this RIP, however, seems to push me to start over, more or 
less, to
> find the best curves for its use.  Using PS/paper profiles I 
generally
> 'toned' my prints slightly (duotones or otherwise) to sneak by 
(hopefully)
> the metamerism issue.  I've been considering making the 1280 a 
dedicated b/w
> printer for several years, but if I can arrive at curves/presets I 
like
> without metamerism I think this is the better way for me to go 
(QTR).  I
> print a good bit but to keep 2 Epson printers going (for me that 
seems to
> mean printing a fair amount--which has kept my printers pretty much 
clog
> free) may mean more printing that I'm doing at present--and backup 
of more
> inks than I want to do.
> 
> As far as printing on the wrong side--I've done that in the past 
LOL--Velvet
> is one of the hardest to discern for me (probably), so I'm very 
careful how
> I remove the paper from the pack.  EEM is one of the easier papers 
to
> tell--but I get your point about printing on a coated and non-
coated paper.
> 
> Thanks for your input--this list is always worthwhile for the good 
info.  I
> change my email preferences off and on since its often quite busy 
and when
> I'm not getting single emails or digest, forget to read daily and 
lose
> track--altho' recent reading is what brought my attention to QTR..
> 
> Diane
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Scott Graham
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:49 AM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: QTR surprises....
> 
> 
> 
>   To address just one of your points:
> 
>   all inkjet paper is coated.  Only printing on a watercolor paper 
(i.e.
> blotter actually used for
>   watercolor) will avoid a coating.  We commonly call "nice art 
papers"
> watercolor paper but
>   they aren't literally.
> 
>   and coatings certainly make a difference: color of the coating is 
the
> obvious, but the way
>   they absorb (or not) various inks, etc.
> 
>   To demo that, when your EEM comes in, print a test on the front, 
and then
> one on the
>   back (uncoated and diff color) of a sheet.  What a difference, 
and if you
> it withour realizing
>   it like I did once, what confusion  :)
> 
>   Scott
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED 
OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER

> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links