Digital BW, The Print

I've read comments on a large format forum about use of Renaissance
Wax, a synthetic mystery wax that was allegedly developed by "The
British Museum" and used on fine prints, paintings, and photographic
prints (as well as furniture and geegaws) for conservation purposes.

Anybody experienced with this stuff?

Renaissance Wax promo says natural waxes interact with something,
perhaps atmosphere or the artwork, to create acids...not good presumably.

I wonder about acrylic floor wax. The stuff's bullet proof and
non-yellowing.

The nice thing about wax is that you can apply with a clean rag and
you don't have to spray. This used to be done in some museum
situations with B&W prints...they rubbed on Johnson's Paste Wax, so I
did it too, and my 30-yr-old prints look unchanged (but they're
dark-stored and the unwaxed prints look just as good)...maybe there's
something better now.

Thoughts?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Djon"
<westsidemaurice@y...> wrote:
> 
> I've read comments on a large format forum about use of Renaissance
> Wax, a synthetic mystery wax that was allegedly developed by "The
> British Museum" and used on fine prints, paintings, and photographic
> prints (as well as furniture and geegaws) for conservation purposes.
> 
> Anybody experienced with this stuff?
>

Just search _this_ group's archive, and you'll find a number of posts
on the topic oif Renaissance wax.

Phil

Phil, I did search but only found superficial references to using it
on Ilford Pearl. 

I've seen similar passing references to its use on other Forums, but
never any careful reports. 

Spray seen seems not worth the effort and inevitable dust. Glop
evidently works but it seems a temporary a workaround...Epson's newer
technology solves the problem to 13". Wax can be easily applied and
the idea of using it as protection sounds appealing and has a history.
My main question is, does Renaissance or some other wax help or hurt
inkjet prints? Paste wax worked fine with my own old fiber based
silver prints.

> Just search _this_ group's archive, and you'll find a number of posts
> on the topic oif Renaissance wax.
> 
> Phil

Renaissance wax works well to reduce bronzing on Ilford Smooth Pearl.  
It also imparts a better "feel" to the print when handling and prevents 
fingerprints.  It does not work well on all RC papers, particularly 
those with little or no surface texture like semimatte and glossy.  It 
is easier to apply and get a smooth even coating if the prints are 
first sprayed with PrintShield.  I'm currently trying Renaissance wax 
on canvas prints (BC Brillance II) that have also been first sprayed 
with PrintShield.  The latter prints were dry mounted on gatorfoam and 
then framed without glazing.  They look great but I'll have to evaluate 
how well they hold up under display conditions.

Carl

On Mar 10, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Djon wrote:

>
>
> Phil, I did search but only found superficial references to using it
> on Ilford Pearl.
>
> I've seen similar passing references to its use on other Forums, but
> never any careful reports.
>
> Spray seen seems not worth the effort and inevitable dust. Glop
> evidently works but it seems a temporary a workaround...Epson's newer
> technology solves the problem to 13". Wax can be easily applied and
> the idea of using it as protection sounds appealing and has a history.
> My main question is, does Renaissance or some other wax help or hurt
> inkjet prints? Paste wax worked fine with my own old fiber based
> silver prints.
>
>
>> Just search _this_ group's archive, and you'll find a number of posts
>> on the topic oif Renaissance wax.
>>
>> Phil

Trying to get a good finish with Wax is like the karate kid polishing the
decking - it takes forever and you'll be a lot fitter afterwards


Mar 10, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Djon wrote:

> 
>> 
>> 
>> Phil, I did search but only found superficial references to using it
>> on Ilford Pearl.
>> 
>> I've seen similar passing references to its use on other Forums, but
>> never any careful reports.
>> 
>> Spray seen seems not worth the effort and inevitable dust. Glop
>> evidently works but it seems a temporary a workaround...Epson's newer
>> technology solves the problem to 13". Wax can be easily applied and
>> the idea of using it as protection sounds appealing and has a history.
>> My main question is, does Renaissance or some other wax help or hurt
>> inkjet prints? Paste wax worked fine with my own old fiber based
>> silver prints.
>> 
>>

I did an 8.5x11 ISP print and it took about 10 minutes and a bit of elbow grease. I wouldn't 
want to do more than a few at one time, but I love the finish.

Jon

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> 
wrote:

> Trying to get a good finish with Wax is like the karate kid polishing the
> decking - it takes forever and you'll be a lot fitter afterwards
> 
> 
> Mar 10, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Djon wrote:
> > 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Phil, I did search but only found superficial references to using it
> >> on Ilford Pearl.
> >> 
> >> I've seen similar passing references to its use on other Forums, but
> >> never any careful reports.
> >> 
> >> Spray seen seems not worth the effort and inevitable dust. Glop
> >> evidently works but it seems a temporary a workaround...Epson's newer
> >> technology solves the problem to 13". Wax can be easily applied and
> >> the idea of using it as protection sounds appealing and has a history.
> >> My main question is, does Renaissance or some other wax help or hurt
> >> inkjet prints? Paste wax worked fine with my own old fiber based
> >> silver prints.
> >> 
> >>

Try spraying first with a light coat of PrintShield and then waxing 
after the print has dried.  A lot less elbow grease and a nicer finish.

Carl

On Mar 10, 2005, at 2:03 PM, Jon Witsell wrote:

>
>
> I did an 8.5x11 ISP print and it took about 10 minutes and a bit of 
> elbow grease. I wouldn't
> want to do more than a few at one time, but I love the finish.
>
> Jon
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
> <stevekale@b...>
> wrote:
>> Trying to get a good finish with Wax is like the karate kid polishing 
>> the
>> decking - it takes forever and you'll be a lot fitter afterwards
>>
>>
>> Mar 10, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Djon wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Phil, I did search but only found superficial references to using it
>>>> on Ilford Pearl.
>>>>
>>>> I've seen similar passing references to its use on other Forums, but
>>>> never any careful reports.
>>>>
>>>> Spray seen seems not worth the effort and inevitable dust. Glop
>>>> evidently works but it seems a temporary a workaround...Epson's 
>>>> newer
>>>> technology solves the problem to 13". Wax can be easily applied and
>>>> the idea of using it as protection sounds appealing and has a 
>>>> history.
>>>> My main question is, does Renaissance or some other wax help or hurt
>>>> inkjet prints? Paste wax worked fine with my own old fiber based
>>>> silver prints.
>>>>
>>>>
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Djon"
<westsidemaurice@y...> wrote:
> 
> Phil, I did search but only found superficial references to using it
> on Ilford Pearl.

The problem isn't the superficiality of previous posts, but rather the
primitive nature of the Yahoogroups search engine. But if you
persevere in a search--going back through about 10 months worth of
posts--you'll begin to see the extensive discussions in early 2004
(also re. Ilford Pearl), e.g.:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/43581 

Phil

Ok, that is the next thing I'll try. Is drying overnight required or
just an hour or two?

Jon

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield
<scho@m...> 
wrote:
> Try spraying first with a light coat of PrintShield and then waxing 
> after the print has dried.  A lot less elbow grease and a nicer
finish.
> 
> Carl
> 
> On Mar 10, 2005, at 2:03 PM, Jon Witsell wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > I did an 8.5x11 ISP print and it took about 10 minutes and a bit
of 
> > elbow grease. I wouldn't
> > want to do more than a few at one time, but I love the finish.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
> > <stevekale@b...>
> > wrote:
> >> Trying to get a good finish with Wax is like the karate kid
polishing 
> >> the
> >> decking - it takes forever and you'll be a lot fitter afterwards
> >>
> >>
> >> Mar 10, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Djon wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Phil, I did search but only found superficial references to
using it
> >>>> on Ilford Pearl.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've seen similar passing references to its use on other
Forums, but
> >>>> never any careful reports.
> >>>>
> >>>> Spray seen seems not worth the effort and inevitable dust. Glop
> >>>> evidently works but it seems a temporary a 
workaround...Epson's 
> >>>> newer
> >>>> technology solves the problem to 13". Wax can be easily
applied and
> >>>> the idea of using it as protection sounds appealing and has a 
> >>>> history.
> >>>> My main question is, does Renaissance or some other wax help
or hurt
> >>>> inkjet prints? Paste wax worked fine with my own old fiber
based

> >>>> silver prints.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >

On 3/10/05 7:07 PM, "Jon Witsell" sent the following verbage:

> Ok, that is the next thing I'll try. Is drying overnight required or
> just an hour or two?
> 
> Jon

I've used beeswax to protect some of my work, I enjoy the finish, and no
elbow grease was needed. But it does give a glow which may not be suitable
for most work. I tried Renaissance Wax a few years past, and never achieved
an even finish, not enough elbow grease?. Next up to try is some encaustic
techniques, but I suppose that's more of a mixed media approach. I like the
idea of spraying first and appreciated the info on that.

Carolyn

Johnson's Paste wax is petroleum based. Not sure I'd want to do that to an
inkjet.

Seth 

==-----Original Message-----
==From: Djon [mailto:westsidemaurice@...] 
==
==

==
==The nice thing about wax is that you can apply with a clean 
==rag and you don't have to spray. This used to be done in some 
==museum situations with B&W prints...they rubbed on Johnson's 
==Paste Wax, so I did it too, and my 30-yr-old prints look 
==unchanged (but they're dark-stored and the unwaxed prints 
==look just as good)...maybe there's something better now.
==

But, that's a totally different animal.  The silver print was sealed, if
you will, not an ink that can bleed.


Even if it is doable, it seems a very extended drying time is in order
before doing any coating that way.

Seth

==-----Original Message-----
==From: Djon [mailto:westsidemaurice@...] 
==
=
==My main question is, does Renaissance or some other wax help 
==or hurt inkjet prints? Paste wax worked fine with my own old 
==fiber based silver prints.

==
==
==

Seth, it's certainly "doable." But yes, the drying time is extended.
MY question is, does it help or perhaps hurt the inkjet print in near
or long term?

Renaissance promo suggests traditional waxes may hurt whatever they're
applied to (not just photos) by interacting chemically in a way that
their supremely wonderful miracle mystery wax does not. I wonder if
there's some truth to that.

The silver print is/was only "sealed" with jello, literal ground up
cattle hoofs. Not an impervious seal at all. Epson's encapsulated
pigments are sealed with something probably FAR more effective than
jello. On the other hand, inkjet's PAPER may be hurt in some way by a
particular wax, and non-encapsulated dyes/inks may dissolve or interact.

Some of us used floor wax (carnuba?) on some prints in decades past
...my examples are still in perfect shape today ...that MAY suggest
that the same wax would be a good gamble with Epson pigments or even
the more soluble dyes and inks. 

It'd be easy for someone with the skills to observe very short-term
effects of various waxes on Epson OEM pigment, various inks, dyes, and
papers microscopically....are they being dissolved or otherwise
attacked by the waxes?

My thinking about wax Vs spray has to do with the fact that wax is not
noxious and is less tricky to apply. It MAY also be more effective
archivally (or less)...museums might already prefer it. Do we have any
museum curators here? My sister used to do photo curatorial work in a
couple of museums, maybe she can contribute some connections. 





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Seth"
<seth@m...> wrote:
>  But, that's a totally different animal.  The silver print was
sealed, if

> you will, not an ink that can bleed.
> 
> 
> Even if it is doable, it seems a very extended drying time is in order
> before doing any coating that way.
> 
> Seth
> 
> ==-----Original Message-----
> ==From: Djon [mailto:westsidemaurice@y...] 
> ==
> =
> ==My main question is, does Renaissance or some other wax help 
> ==or hurt inkjet prints? Paste wax worked fine with my own old 
> ==fiber based silver prints.
> 
> ==
> ==
> ==

Why do you think a petroleum base would be bad for a print? I think
it's worth a little experimentation. This calls for a materials
engineer, someone with a microscope. 

I don't think any of the inks or dyes or Epson's encapsulated pigment
are dissolved by anything other than water ..are not petroleum
dissolvable... and I don't think Epson's encapsulated pigment is
dissolved by ANYTHING that's not aggressively corrosive (undoubtedly
acetone and acids, possibly alcohol).

Promo for Renaissance Wax, a synthetic, says certain destructive
alcohols can be created by natural wax in reaction to whatever it's
applied over. Don't know if that's BS or if true is really
significant. From experience, Johnson's paste wax (used to be popular
among some photogs for the purpose) has not hurt my own 20-30 year old
silver prints (I applied it to a few)...

...the only thing likely to have be attacked would be the jello in
which the silver is suspended and the paper underneath. 

> Johnson's Paste wax is petroleum based. Not sure I'd want to do that
to an

> inkjet.
> 
> Seth 
>

When I was photog for the historical society our photo conservator cringed
at the idea of putting anything on a print.  But who knows.

I am guessing unless Wilhelm or IPI actually does aging tests with the wax,
no one will know.  But, who's to know if their application is done the same
way?

Seth 

==-----Original Message-----
==From: Djon [mailto:westsidemaurice@...] 
==
==Renaissance promo suggests traditional waxes may hurt 
==whatever they're applied to (not just photos) by interacting 
==chemically in a way that their supremely wonderful miracle 
==mystery wax does not. I wonder if there's some truth to that.
==
==The silver print is/was only "sealed" with jello, literal 
==ground up cattle hoofs. Not an impervious seal at all. 
==Epson's encapsulated pigments are sealed with something 
==probably FAR more effective than jello. On the other hand, 
==inkjet's PAPER may be hurt in some way by a particular wax, 
==and non-encapsulated dyes/inks may dissolve or interact.
==
==Some of us used floor wax (carnuba?) on some prints in 
==decades past ...my examples are still in perfect shape today 
==...that MAY suggest that the same wax would be a good gamble 
==with Epson pigments or even the more soluble dyes and inks. 
==
==It'd be easy for someone with the skills to observe very 
==short-term effects of various waxes on Epson OEM pigment, 
==various inks, dyes, and papers microscopically....are they 
==being dissolved or otherwise attacked by the waxes?
==
==My thinking about wax Vs spray has to do with the fact that 
==wax is not noxious and is less tricky to apply. It MAY also 
==be more effective archivally (or less)...museums might 
==already prefer it. Do we have any museum curators here? My 
==sister used to do photo curatorial work in a couple of 
==museums, maybe she can contribute some connections. 
==
==

I am guessing the wax would keep the gelatin eating critters from eating
the emulsion too.  We certainly had that problem with unprocessed color
paper.

BTW- I'll take an inkjet print outside and hit it with carburetor cleaner
and see what happens.

Seth

==-----Original Message-----
==From: Djon [mailto:westsidemaurice@...] 
==Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 11:20 AM
==To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
==Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Renaissance Wax and inkjet?
==
==
==
==Why do you think a petroleum base would be bad for a print? I 
==think it's worth a little experimentation. This calls for a 
==materials engineer, someone with a microscope. 
==
==I don't think any of the inks or dyes or Epson's encapsulated 
==pigment are dissolved by anything other than water ..are not 
==petroleum dissolvable... and I don't think Epson's 
==encapsulated pigment is dissolved by ANYTHING that's not 
==aggressively corrosive (undoubtedly acetone and acids, 
==possibly alcohol).
==
==Promo for Renaissance Wax, a synthetic, says certain 
==destructive alcohols can be created by natural wax in 
==reaction to whatever it's applied over. Don't know if that's 
==BS or if true is really significant. From experience, 
==Johnson's paste wax (used to be popular among some photogs 
==for the purpose) has not hurt my own 20-30 year old silver 
==prints (I applied it to a few)...
==
==...the only thing likely to have be attacked would be the 
==jello in which the silver is suspended and the paper underneath. 
==