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Re: Photokit sharpener and inks used for QTR

Re: Photokit sharpener and inks used for QTR

2005-03-10 by Diane Fields

I apologize for my redundancy in answering the request for how to use the sharpening action.  Need to scroll down through my emails before answering from now on.

I will say that using the plugins was much faster than using PK Sharpener (plus it works in 16 bit and greyscale) and if you are familiar with how PKS works, it makes it easier to understand what is happening as the action progresses.  If not, it may take a bit of experimenting to find the right settings.  I downloaded both the sharpening set and the custom sharpening set and tried both--I'd recommend that also--the sharpening set has 4 actions--and, as with PKS, you may find one works better than another for a particular image.

I'm really liking QTR---I got more EEM today and found that there is still a warm caste to the images when using 'none'.   I worked until I found a blend of profiles that suited me (quite 'neutral')--at least for the image I was working on, but  I'm still curious why I'm getting 'warm' with NO profile.  Is it because its using mostly 'black' ink (which is 'warm' on the 2200) or for some other reason?   I am very curious as to what inks it uses (did I read somewhere that its mostly lt. cyan, lt. magenta and black--I happen to be using MK right now---and no yellow???)    I searched within the group messages but didn't find much.  

Diane
-----------
Diane B. Fields
picnic@...
photo site  http://www.pbase.com/picnic
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Louis Dina 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 2:31 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Photokit sharpener and B&W



  Andrew,

  Extract the files from the Stuffit archive and place those files in 
  the Photoshop Actions folder.  On my WinXP machine the proper 
  location is Program Files > Adobe > Phoroshop CS > Presets > 
  Photoshop Actions.

  Relaunch Photoshop and open the Actions palette.  Click the right 
  facing arrow in the upper right hand corner and select "Load 
  Actions".  You should see the actions you placed into the folder 
  above.  Select the action you want and it will show up in your action 
  palette.  Then run as you do any action.

  Lou

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Unger" 
  <ungram@v...> wrote:
  > 
  > I've been following this thread and encouraged by Diane's 
  experience 
  > I downloaded the files, extracted them but couldn't figure out how 
  > to get them to work in my PS-CS, Windows XP-Home setup.  There was 
  > no "install" process so I copied the files to the folder where 
  other 
  > filters are but they didn't show up in the listbox.  Thanks for any 
  > help.
  > 
  > Andrew





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR

2005-03-11 by Carolyn Frayn

On 3/10/05 2:04 PM, "Diane Fields" sent the following verbage:

> I'm really liking QTR---I got more EEM today and found that there is still a
> warm caste to the images when using 'none'.   I worked until I found a blend
> of profiles that suited me (quite 'neutral')--at least for the image I was
> working on, but  I'm still curious why I'm getting 'warm' with NO profile.  Is
> it because its using mostly 'black' ink (which is 'warm' on the 2200) or for
> some other reason?   I am very curious as to what inks it uses (did I read
> somewhere that its mostly lt. cyan, lt. magenta and black--I happen to be
> using MK right now---and no yellow???)    I searched within the group messages
> but didn't find much.

The black and grey UC inks are warm themselves, somewhat similar in tone to
the carbon sepia piezos to my eyes, in order to lesson that warmth you'll
have to blend with a higher percentage of the cooler profiles which have the
color inks come into play. Another thing you might want to look at is a
print using the same percentages you've been using, but on a different
paper, Epson Velvet, photoRag or German etching for example. You'll notice a
slight difference to the apparent tone of the inks due to the difference in
paper white.

Carolyn

Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR

2005-03-11 by john dean

Yea, I've personally found that when doing warmish mono output with QTR and UC inks, 
papers with optical brightners like HP Rag and EEMatte don't have the beauty of papers 
without them such as Premier Art Cold Press and H William Turner or German Etching or 
Concorde Rag. A really interesting hue can be obtained with 80% Sepia curve and 20% Cool 
Curve on the above mentioned media. It even looks nice on EE Matte.

John V. sent me this breakdown to describe the way the channels are being seperated. 
This may give you some idea. He is such a helpful guy ( and Roy Harrington is King).

-------
Hi John,

You asked on the list about making curves with QTR. 
Also you mentioned how do you know how much of the color inks are being used
to tone? Just open a profile and look at this:

N_OF_INKS=7
DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=50

LIMIT_K=
BOOST_K=60
LIMIT_C=0
LIMIT_M=0
LIMIT_Y=0
LIMIT_LC=12
LIMIT_LM=12
LIMIT_LK=36

The above is from the 76/9600 PhotoRag Cool profile. I'm not good at math so
don't laugh too much... but K=60 is the maximum for the Black ink. So this
60 becomes 100%, as related to the other inks, as it's the most ink laid
down.

Next is LK=36. 36 is a little more than half of K=60 so just a little more
than 50% of light black is being used.

Both Light Cyan and Light Magenta is being used at 12. So about 20% of LC
and LM are being used with this profile.


Best,

John V.










 Another thing you might want to look at is a
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> print using the same percentages you've been using, but on a different
> paper, Epson Velvet, photoRag or German etching for example. You'll notice a
> slight difference to the apparent tone of the inks due to the difference in
> paper white.
> 
> Carolyn

Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR

2005-03-11 by Diane Fields

Thanks Carolyn.  That confirms, more or less, what I thought--that there must be a very large amount of the black and grey UC inks used in QTR since I knew they were 'warm' (having tried the BO method several years ago).  I've found a nice blend that comes up to a fairly neutral print on the EEM, but may have to adjust as EEM is usually only my 'test' paper.  I generally print on Velvet and HPR and I haven't tried those papers yet since I've just been demoing QTR.  I'll print on Velvet today to confirm my thoughts on QTR (which is excellent and I'm ready to send Roy my Paypal share *smile*).  

What has been harder for me to get my head around (altho' I know it 'intellectually') is that when I print from a color managed PS environment, my print matches my calibrated monitor (but, unfortunately, with metamerism)--- but when printing with QTR and using gray-lab, gray-matte, my 'NONE' is a warm toned print.  Now I do understand that QTR uses primarily MK and LB  (warm toned) and am saving blends for each of my papers since I also understand the tone of the paper influences the print (and am also glad to have confirmed that the cooler profiles bring the color inks into play).  I guess I just wanted to be sure I understood what 'none' meant.

Diane
-----------
Diane B. Fields
picnic@...
photo site  http://www.pbase.com/picnic
  The black and grey UC inks are warm themselves, somewhat similar in tone to
  the carbon sepia piezos to my eyes, in order to lesson that warmth you'll
  have to blend with a higher percentage of the cooler profiles which have the
  color inks come into play. Another thing you might want to look at is a
  print using the same percentages you've been using, but on a different
  paper, Epson Velvet, photoRag or German etching for example. You'll notice a
  slight difference to the apparent tone of the inks due to the difference in
  paper white.

  Carolyn



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR

2005-03-11 by Diane Fields

John, this is very helpful.  Thanks very much.  I'm going to print today on Velvet which is one of my favorite papers.  I have some WT around also so will try that.  Since I had tried BO several years ago, I knew that the UC-K inks were warm toned, but wasn't sure what other inks were involved in the profiles.  I thought I had read that only the K inks and LC and LM were used but couldn't remember where I had read it.

Diane
-----------
Diane B. Fields
picnic@...
photo site  http://www.pbase.com/picnic
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
  From: john dean 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 2:00 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR



  Yea, I've personally found that when doing warmish mono output with QTR and UC inks, 
  papers with optical brightners like HP Rag and EEMatte don't have the beauty of papers 
  without them such as Premier Art Cold Press and H William Turner or German Etching or 
  Concorde Rag. A really interesting hue can be obtained with 80% Sepia curve and 20% Cool 
  Curve on the above mentioned media. It even looks nice on EE Matte.

  John V. sent me this breakdown to describe the way the channels are being seperated. 
  This may give you some idea. He is such a helpful guy ( and Roy Harrington is King).



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR

2005-03-11 by Steve Kale

The bottom line is none means none - seriously you are not meant to use
"none".  You are meant to use one or a blend of two - none is there to
simply fill the gap ie a second curve is redundant if using 100-0 mix (or
0-100).  You would have to ask Roy what happens when you tell it not to use
a curve.  BUT this is not the intended use of the product.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Diane Fields <picnic@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 08:13:33 -0500
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR
> 
> 
> Thanks Carolyn.  That confirms, more or less, what I thought--that there must
> be a very large amount of the black and grey UC inks used in QTR since I knew
> they were 'warm' (having tried the BO method several years ago).  I've found a
> nice blend that comes up to a fairly neutral print on the EEM, but may have to
> adjust as EEM is usually only my 'test' paper.  I generally print on Velvet
> and HPR and I haven't tried those papers yet since I've just been demoing QTR.
> I'll print on Velvet today to confirm my thoughts on QTR (which is excellent
> and I'm ready to send Roy my Paypal share *smile*).
> 
> What has been harder for me to get my head around (altho' I know it
> 'intellectually') is that when I print from a color managed PS environment, my
> print matches my calibrated monitor (but, unfortunately, with metamerism)---
> but when printing with QTR and using gray-lab, gray-matte, my 'NONE' is a warm
> toned print.  Now I do understand that QTR uses primarily MK and LB  (warm
> toned) and am saving blends for each of my papers since I also understand the
> tone of the paper influences the print (and am also glad to have confirmed
> that the cooler profiles bring the color inks into play).  I guess I just
> wanted to be sure I understood what 'none' meant.
> 
> Diane
> -----------

Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR

2005-03-11 by Diane Fields

Thanks Steve--I do understand that now and see where it fits into the 'curves' blend situation.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Kale 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 8:29 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR


  The bottom line is none means none - seriously you are not meant to use
  "none".  

  SNIP

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR

2005-03-11 by Carolyn Frayn

On 3/11/05 6:13 AM, "Diane Fields" sent the following verbage:

> 
> Thanks Carolyn.  That confirms, more or less, what I thought--that there must
> be a very large amount of the black and grey UC inks used in QTR since I knew
> they were 'warm' (having tried the BO method several years ago).  I've found a
> nice blend that comes up to a fairly neutral print on the EEM, but may have to
> adjust as EEM is usually only my 'test' paper.  I generally print on Velvet
> and HPR and I haven't tried those papers yet since I've just been demoing QTR.

I think you'll be please at the difference, slight, but there, I find a
depth and a more pleasing tone over EEM, which I also use to test.

 
> I'll print on Velvet today to confirm my thoughts on QTR (which is excellent
> and I'm ready to send Roy my Paypal share *smile*).
> 
> What has been harder for me to get my head around (altho' I know it
> 'intellectually') is that when I print from a color managed PS environment, my
> print matches my calibrated monitor (but, unfortunately, with metamerism)---
> but when printing with QTR and using gray-lab, gray-matte, my 'NONE' is a warm
> toned print.  

What do you mean by "none"? I had assumed you meant "none" for the second
profile choice in the RIP control.. You are inputting a profile though
right? Always keeping the percentages at 100% total?

> Now I do understand that QTR uses primarily MK and LB  (warm
> toned) and am saving blends for each of my papers since I also understand the
> tone of the paper influences the print (and am also glad to have confirmed
> that the cooler profiles bring the color inks into play).  I guess I just
> wanted to be sure I understood what 'none' meant.

Sorry to have misunderstood your original question Diane... I don't know
what printing with "none" brings in, you will always want to pick one
profile, then blend with a second to achieve the 'tone' you desire. I use
100% warm for a lot of my work. But I love that tone, I think when I first
started with QTR and IJC I was trying to emulate the look of carbon sepia
piezo which I had been enjoying.

Have fun today with the other papers,
Carolyn

Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR

2005-03-11 by Diane Fields

LOL--see, that's what happens when someone doesn't REALLY understand what to expect a RIP to do (I more or less do know for other purposes--i.e., my printer for commercial work uses a RIP and I expect spot on color with it, but obviously didn't know how to use one myself)..  Yes, I printed with 100% NONE--so, I got basically what one would get with a BO print more or less.  Learned my lesson, been there, done that--and all that nonsense-- and now I know better--thanks to help on this list which is always informative.  I have come and gone on this list over several years primarily because if I'm out of town/busy, it just gets way WAY ahead of me and I never get caught up so I unsub.  Then when its slower, I resub, but I do miss a lot in between.

Diane
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Carolyn Frayn 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 11:06 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR


  On 3/11/05 6:13 AM, "Diane Fields" sent the following verbage:

  SNIP

  What do you mean by "none"? I had assumed you meant "none" for the second
  profile choice in the RIP control.. You are inputting a profile though
  right? Always keeping the percentages at 100% total?

  SNIP

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR

2005-03-11 by B. Ellis

> I am very curious as to what inks it uses (did I read
> somewhere that its mostly lt. cyan, lt. magenta and black--I happen to be
> using MK right now---and no yellow???)

My understanding, gained from where I don't remember, is that QTR uses only
black, light black, light magenta, light cyan, and yellow inks.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carolyn Frayn" <carolyn@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR



On 3/10/05 2:04 PM, "Diane Fields" sent the following verbage:

> I'm really liking QTR---I got more EEM today and found that there is still
a
> warm caste to the images when using 'none'.   I worked until I found a
blend
> of profiles that suited me (quite 'neutral')--at least for the image I was
> working on, but  I'm still curious why I'm getting 'warm' with NO profile.
Is
> it because its using mostly 'black' ink (which is 'warm' on the 2200) or
for
> some other reason?   I am very curious as to what inks it uses (did I read
> somewhere that its mostly lt. cyan, lt. magenta and black--I happen to be
> using MK right now---and no yellow???)    I searched within the group
messages
> but didn't find much.

The black and grey UC inks are warm themselves, somewhat similar in tone to
the carbon sepia piezos to my eyes, in order to lesson that warmth you'll
have to blend with a higher percentage of the cooler profiles which have the
color inks come into play. Another thing you might want to look at is a
print using the same percentages you've been using, but on a different
paper, Epson Velvet, photoRag or German etching for example. You'll notice a
slight difference to the apparent tone of the inks due to the difference in
paper white.

Carolyn




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

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If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR

2005-03-11 by Carl Schofield

QTR can use any inks you want to use.  For the UC inks the following 
generally applies.  Most of the warm (carbon) profiles use just K and 
LK.  Neutral and cool profiles will add LC and LM to cool or neutralize 
the warm tone of the LK and, more recently also C and M to 
cool/neutralize the warm Epson UC K inks (PK and MK).  Sepia adds LM 
and Y, in the proportions desired so that when mixed with LK a sepia 
tone is obtained.  A "cool Selenium" tone is generated by adding 
slightly more LM relative to LC when making a neutral or cool tone 
profile.

Carl
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mar 11, 2005, at 1:08 PM, B. Ellis wrote:

>
>> I am very curious as to what inks it uses (did I read
>> somewhere that its mostly lt. cyan, lt. magenta and black--I happen 
>> to be
>> using MK right now---and no yellow???)
>
> My understanding, gained from where I don't remember, is that QTR uses 
> only
> black, light black, light magenta, light cyan, and yellow inks.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carolyn Frayn" <carolyn@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 1:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Inks used for QTR
>
>
>
> On 3/10/05 2:04 PM, "Diane Fields" sent the following verbage:
>
>> I'm really liking QTR---I got more EEM today and found that there is 
>> still
> a
>> warm caste to the images when using 'none'.   I worked until I found a
> blend
>> of profiles that suited me (quite 'neutral')--at least for the image 
>> I was
>> working on, but  I'm still curious why I'm getting 'warm' with NO 
>> profile.
> Is
>> it because its using mostly 'black' ink (which is 'warm' on the 2200) 
>> or
> for
>> some other reason?   I am very curious as to what inks it uses (did I 
>> read
>> somewhere that its mostly lt. cyan, lt. magenta and black--I happen 
>> to be
>> using MK right now---and no yellow???)    I searched within the group
> messages
>> but didn't find much.
>
> The black and grey UC inks are warm themselves, somewhat similar in 
> tone to
> the carbon sepia piezos to my eyes, in order to lesson that warmth 
> you'll
> have to blend with a higher percentage of the cooler profiles which 
> have the
> color inks come into play. Another thing you might want to look at is a
> print using the same percentages you've been using, but on a different
> paper, Epson Velvet, photoRag or German etching for example. You'll 
> notice a
> slight difference to the apparent tone of the inks due to the 
> difference in
> paper white.
>
> Carolyn

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