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Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?

Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?

2004-09-15 by Linda B

Hello,
I have not gotten any email from this group for over twenty four hours. would someone in the group send a group message to me so I can see what the problem is. thanks
linda b
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Louis Dina<mailto:lbdina@...> 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> 
  Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 9:49 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?



  In my job, I regularly create graphics posters for trade shows, some 
  as large as 4X6 feet.  I have found that I can go as low as 100 to 
  125 ppi and still get excellent results.  They look perfect from 
  normal viewing distances (typically 4 feet away or more), but if you 
  inspect them up close, you can see the fuzziness and lack of 
  resolution.  Size and normal viewing distance are the key.  Most of 
  these are output to large format inkjet or a lightjet from RGB 
  files.  

  Lou


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <aderca@s...> 
  wrote:
  > Yes, Bob, I'm familiar with the physics behind this,
  > most people with normal vision can "resolve" 600 dpi
  > at 5" distance, most people with normal vision cannot
  > distinguish above 300 dpi at 10" distance.
  > Given how we normally look at photos, I think that 
  > is why most experts recommend 300 dpi as a good
  > file resolution. For poster size photos you can probably
  > go safely below 200 dpi, as most people would not
  > normally look at them with a loupe.
  > 
  > Regards
  > 
  > Andrei
  >   ----- Original Message ----- 
  >   From: Bob Frost 
  >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  >   Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 4:48 AM
  >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?
  > 
  > 
  >   Andrei,
  > 
  >   Actually it has been proven that some people with good eyesight 
  can see 
  >   improvements in prints up to 600 ppi:-
  > 
  >   http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/printer-ppi/index.html<http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/printer-ppi/index.html>
  > 
  >   and
  > 
  >   http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.html<http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.html>
  > 
  >   Bob Frost.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >   ----- Original Message ----- 
  >   From: <aderca@s...>
  > 
  >   250 to 300 dpi is pretty much considered a standard for
  >   good resolution files that you send to the printer (so after
  >   you scan at 1600 dpi, you can enlarge sufficiently to get
  >   down to 250-300). I doubt very much that you can see
  >   a difference between a 300 dpi file and a 600 dpi sent
  >   to the printer, regardless of the caliber of the output machine.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
  resources as they are often being updated.
  > 
  >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>
  > 
  >   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
  wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
  visiting this same page.
  > 
  >   Please follow these basic guidelines:
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  messages to keep them short.
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  flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
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  and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
  group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" 
  in the Files section:
  >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/>
  > 
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  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

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Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?

2005-03-12 by aderca@sbcglobal.net

Hi Phil

250 to 300 dpi is pretty much considered a standard for
good resolution files that you send to the printer (so after
you scan at 1600 dpi, you can enlarge sufficiently to get
down to 250-300). I doubt very much that you can see 
a difference between a 300 dpi file and a 600 dpi sent
to the printer, regardless of the caliber of the output machine.

Regards

Andrei
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: pdcorlis 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:24 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?



  I looked through the archives of the Epson scanner forums but couldn't seem to find a 
  direct answer to my question so here goes...

  I use an Epson 3200 to scan B&W negs for printing and have generally scanned my 4X5 
  negatives at their original size and at 1600 dpi - so when the day comes, I can print 
  11x14's at 600 (or so) dpi. I'm new to this brave new world so I'm wondering if other large 
  format photographers in the group have a different take on this. I want to scan at a high 
  enough resolution to preserve detail, but not too high a resolution to aviod HUGE 
  Photoshop files.

  Thanks for any help you can offer

  Phil C.





  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?

2005-03-12 by Bob Frost

Andrei,

Actually it has been proven that some people with good eyesight can see 
improvements in prints up to 600 ppi:-

http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/printer-ppi/index.html

and

http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.html

Bob Frost.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <aderca@...>

250 to 300 dpi is pretty much considered a standard for
good resolution files that you send to the printer (so after
you scan at 1600 dpi, you can enlarge sufficiently to get
down to 250-300). I doubt very much that you can see
a difference between a 300 dpi file and a 600 dpi sent
to the printer, regardless of the caliber of the output machine.

Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?

2005-03-12 by aderca@sbcglobal.net

Yes, Bob, I'm familiar with the physics behind this,
most people with normal vision can "resolve" 600 dpi
at 5" distance, most people with normal vision cannot
distinguish above 300 dpi at 10" distance.
Given how we normally look at photos, I think that 
is why most experts recommend 300 dpi as a good
file resolution. For poster size photos you can probably
go safely below 200 dpi, as most people would not
normally look at them with a loupe.

Regards

Andrei
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Frost 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 4:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?


  Andrei,

  Actually it has been proven that some people with good eyesight can see 
  improvements in prints up to 600 ppi:-

  http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/printer-ppi/index.html

  and

  http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.html

  Bob Frost.



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: <aderca@...>

  250 to 300 dpi is pretty much considered a standard for
  good resolution files that you send to the printer (so after
  you scan at 1600 dpi, you can enlarge sufficiently to get
  down to 250-300). I doubt very much that you can see
  a difference between a 300 dpi file and a 600 dpi sent
  to the printer, regardless of the caliber of the output machine.



  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?

2005-03-12 by Louis Dina

In my job, I regularly create graphics posters for trade shows, some 
as large as 4X6 feet.  I have found that I can go as low as 100 to 
125 ppi and still get excellent results.  They look perfect from 
normal viewing distances (typically 4 feet away or more), but if you 
inspect them up close, you can see the fuzziness and lack of 
resolution.  Size and normal viewing distance are the key.  Most of 
these are output to large format inkjet or a lightjet from RGB 
files.  

Lou


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <aderca@s...> 
wrote:
> Yes, Bob, I'm familiar with the physics behind this,
> most people with normal vision can "resolve" 600 dpi
> at 5" distance, most people with normal vision cannot
> distinguish above 300 dpi at 10" distance.
> Given how we normally look at photos, I think that 
> is why most experts recommend 300 dpi as a good
> file resolution. For poster size photos you can probably
> go safely below 200 dpi, as most people would not
> normally look at them with a loupe.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Andrei
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Bob Frost 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 4:48 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?
> 
> 
>   Andrei,
> 
>   Actually it has been proven that some people with good eyesight 
can see 
>   improvements in prints up to 600 ppi:-
> 
>   http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/printer-ppi/index.html
> 
>   and
> 
>   http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.html
> 
>   Bob Frost.
> 
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: <aderca@s...>
> 
>   250 to 300 dpi is pretty much considered a standard for
>   good resolution files that you send to the printer (so after
>   you scan at 1600 dpi, you can enlarge sufficiently to get
>   down to 250-300). I doubt very much that you can see
>   a difference between a 300 dpi file and a 600 dpi sent
>   to the printer, regardless of the caliber of the output machine.
> 
> 
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as they are often being updated.
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
from the membership without notice.
>   - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may 
be removed from the membership.
>   - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" 
in the Files section:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
>   BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, 
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL 
BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF 
SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT 
OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) 
ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>              
>        
>        
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>       
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?

2005-03-12 by Djon

2200 and 4000 Epson desktops print at 720dpi and yes, with some images
you may barely see 720 Vs 300ppi of other printers if you squint hard
through a lupe at comparisons on hard surfaced, critical paper such as
a glossy or EEM. I doubt anybody would find the difference meaningful,
and I'm sure any difference is lost on a softer paper.

Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?

2005-03-12 by A. Huntley

Phil,

I always scan my 4x5 B&W negs at the highest optical resolution my scanner 
will allow; which, for me, is 1600. This scan density allows me to 
re-purpose the image for any use that I'm likely to make of it. However, due 
to total file size I cannot scan 8x10 at this ppi, even for single channel 
B&W! I tend to scan this size at 800 ppi which will produce a very nice 
16x20 at 360.

Alan Huntley
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "pdcorlis" <pdcorlis@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 7:24 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?




I looked through the archives of the Epson scanner forums but couldn't seem 
to find a
direct answer to my question so here goes...

I use an Epson 3200 to scan B&W negs for printing and have generally scanned 
my 4X5
negatives at their original size and at 1600 dpi - so when the day comes, I 
can print
11x14's at 600 (or so) dpi. I'm new to this brave new world so I'm wondering 
if other large
format photographers in the group have a different take on this. I want to 
scan at a high
enough resolution to preserve detail, but not too high a resolution to aviod 
HUGE
Photoshop files.

Thanks for any help you can offer

Phil C.

Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?

2005-03-12 by Bob Frost

Andrei,

Fine, but your original statement - "I doubt very much that you can see a 
difference between a 300 dpi file and a 600 dpi sent to the printer, 
regardless of the caliber of the output machine"- didn't mention viewing 
distance, and therefore was incorrect as stated.

In the articles I listed, Roger Clark suggests that the limit of our eyes, 
in good lighting, is about 1000ppi at 10 inches.

AFAIK, the 'standard' of 300 ppi simply arose as a 2x the 150 lpi of 
traditional printing; I don't think it has anything to do with inkjet 
printing or human vision. With Epson printers, you would be better using 360 
ppi from a technical point of view, or anything between 240 and 480 from a 
practical one. Whatever you use, they are all resampled/interpolated to 360 
or 720ppi by the Epson driver.

Bob Frost.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <aderca@...>


Yes, Bob, I'm familiar with the physics behind this,
most people with normal vision can "resolve" 600 dpi
at 5" distance, most people with normal vision cannot
distinguish above 300 dpi at 10" distance.

Re: [Digital BW] Scan resolution for printing 4x5 negs?

2005-03-12 by Bob Frost

Djon,

>2200 and 4000 Epson desktops print at 720dpi and yes, with some images
>you may barely see 720 Vs 300ppi of other printers if you squint hard
>through a lupe at comparisons on hard surfaced, critical paper such as
>a glossy or EEM.I doubt anybody would find the difference meaningful,


The articles I listed pointed out that you don't have to "squint hard 
through a loupe" to see these differences. Everyone in his test ranked a 
600ppi print above a 300ppi print.

>and I'm sure any difference is lost on a softer paper.

Obviously, if you print on rough paper, you aren't going to resolve as much 
detail. That is why the Epson drivers gray out the high resolution settings 
when you use rough papers.

Many of these rough 'art' papers were invented for inks/paints put on with a 
paintbrush rather than a piezo printhead, and only had to cope with the 
large 'drop-sizes' of the paintbrush. ;)

Bob Frost.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Djon" <westsidemaurice@...>

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.