Digital BW, The Print

I don't know LOL.  You'll have to ask Roy Harrington and I guess Steve Billiard, who I think did the GUI.

  However---this is what I did yesterday and today at someone else's suggestion.  I took the papers I was considering (I have quite a few sample packs and left over papers) and did a 21 step wedge in gray-LAB, saved as my master, then did a conversion of it to gray-matte and gray-photo.  I made the ramp sized to get about 6 on a page easily.  I then would choose a paper, choose a warm and a cool version curve and start at the top of the page on the left with 100% warm--print it (you can drag an image around in the GUI image window to place where you want of simply type in the location--based on from the top and left of the paper).  Then I selected the same ramp, placed it so that it would print below the first one, choose a 75/25 blend of the curve, print it, conitnue to do the same with a 50/50, 40/60, 25-75 and finally a 100% of the cool curve which would be directly across from the 100% warm curve.  I would then label the paper with the paper type, whether I increased the ink limit, and label each ramp--the curve, the percentage.  I did 11 of these different papers with warm to cool curves and have they will be my reference for the future.  

Diane

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 6:35 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Problems with QTR



  Thanks, Diane, ooops..found the solution to my problem. Had the Tiff 
  Image Compression setting at "jpeg" rather than "none". Now it seems 
  to work just fine, which leads me to my next question about the QTR.

  Why is there NO image preview on the GUI to show you the changes you 
  make when moving to sliders to adjust Gamma adjustments or curves?
  How does one know which setting to use?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gee, Diane, there has to be an easier way. Perhaps I should contact 
Roy H. and Steve B. and see if they have any suggestions.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Fields" 
<picnic@c...> wrote:
> I don't know LOL.  You'll have to ask Roy Harrington and I guess 
Steve Billiard, who I think did the GUI.
> 
>   However---this is what I did yesterday and today at someone 
else's suggestion.  I took the papers I was considering (I have 
quite a few sample packs and left over papers) and did a 21 step 
wedge in gray-LAB, saved as my master, then did a conversion of it 
to gray-matte and gray-photo.  I made the ramp sized to get about 6 
on a page easily.  I then would choose a paper, choose a warm and a 
cool version curve and start at the top of the page on the left with 
100% warm--print it (you can drag an image around in the GUI image 
window to place where you want of simply type in the location--based 
on from the top and left of the paper).  Then I selected the same 
ramp, placed it so that it would print below the first one, choose a 
75/25 blend of the curve, print it, conitnue to do the same with a 
50/50, 40/60, 25-75 and finally a 100% of the cool curve which would 
be directly across from the 100% warm curve.  I would then label the 
paper with the paper type, whether I increased the ink limit, and 
label each ramp--the curve, the percentage.  I did 11 of these 
different papers with warm to cool curves and have they will be my 
reference for the future.  
> 
> Diane
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Steve 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 6:35 PM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Problems with QTR
> 
> 
> 
>   Thanks, Diane, ooops..found the solution to my problem. Had the 
Tiff 
>   Image Compression setting at "jpeg" rather than "none". Now it 
seems 
>   to work just fine, which leads me to my next question about the 
QTR.
> 
>   Why is there NO image preview on the GUI to show you the changes 
you 
>   make when moving to sliders to adjust Gamma adjustments or 
curves?

>   How does one know which setting to use?
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I may be wrong, but I don't think so.  At one point, as I understood it, you could use 2 ICC profiles and an action by Carl Schofield to 'sort of' proof in PS (and I still have this action--I don't know if it is available or not, but it does give you a good idea of percentages of warm/cool), but I know that there is no 'realtime' change to the view in the GUI as you change the sliders, ink limit, gamma.  This is part of the learning curve, I think, of using QTR.  Once you find your best settings, then you can save them as presets and apply them over and over to images on the same paper.

Still, it certainly won't hurt to ask Roy and Steve.  You could also post this to the new Quadtone RIP forum on yahoogroups.com forum.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QuadtoneRIP/?yguid=1475141

Diane

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 7:08 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Problems with QTR



  Gee, Diane, there has to be an easier way. Perhaps I should contact 
  Roy H. and Steve B. and see if they have any suggestions.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Diane, otherwise, it is really becomes a 'trial and error' 
experiment...and quite an expensive one too when you take in account 
paper and ink costs. Nonetheless, I'm going to post this question on 
yahoo quadtoneRIP and see if others have any suggestions too.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Fields" 
<picnic@c...> wrote:
> I may be wrong, but I don't think so.  At one point, as I 
understood it, you could use 2 ICC profiles and an action by Carl 
Schofield to 'sort of' proof in PS (and I still have this action--I 
don't know if it is available or not, but it does give you a good 
idea of percentages of warm/cool), but I know that there is 
no 'realtime' change to the view in the GUI as you change the 
sliders, ink limit, gamma.  This is part of the learning curve, I 
think, of using QTR.  Once you find your best settings, then you can 
save them as presets and apply them over and over to images on the 
same paper.
> 
> Still, it certainly won't hurt to ask Roy and Steve.  You could 
also post this to the new Quadtone RIP forum on yahoogroups.com 
forum.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QuadtoneRIP/?yguid=1475141
> 
> Diane
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Steve 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 7:08 PM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Problems with QTR
> 
> 
> 
>   Gee, Diane, there has to be an easier way. Perhaps I should 
contact 

>   Roy H. and Steve B. and see if they have any suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It isn't really that bad if you do the step wedges on the same paper (one sheet).  If you have, for instance, 4 matte papers you are considering, then you can do a series of them on one sheet and decide what is the best.  Maybe you might want to tweak a bit--say, choose a percentage that isn't exactly what you tried and maybe add a bit of ink limit adjustment and try one more test sheet.  I have 11 sheets with 6 step wedges each and I can fairly easily decide what paper, what blend ratio for an image on that paper.

Diane

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 7:50 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Problems with QTR



  Thanks, Diane, otherwise, it is really becomes a 'trial and error' 
  experiment...and quite an expensive one too when you take in account 
  paper and ink costs. Nonetheless, I'm going to post this question on 
  yahoo quadtoneRIP and see if others have any suggestions too.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve"
<blizzie12@y...> wrote:
> 
> Gee, Diane, there has to be an easier way. 
> >   

Gee, Steve, surely you don't really think that printing six grayscale
wedge strips on a _single_ sheet of paper is too difficult and or
wasteful of paper/ink?

That will give you 10 or 12 strips printed on just two sheets
--showing the tones from warmest to coolest in combinations such as:
100/0, 95/5, 90/10...10/90, 5/95, 100/0. Well, I'm sure you get the
picture. It might take you all of one hour to do the lot of them; then
you simply use the curves (combination) that best suits your taste.
That's far better, IMHO, than trying to simulate the paper tones on
your monitor. Yes, you will need to do this same procedure for each
paper/ink combination of interest. Not a big deal.

Phil

Phil, remember...I'm new to the QTR and just feeling a little 
overwhelmed, there's a lot to learn and understand.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Rose" 
<pjrose@f...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve"
> <blizzie12@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > Gee, Diane, there has to be an easier way. 
> > >   
> 
> Gee, Steve, surely you don't really think that printing six 
grayscale
> wedge strips on a _single_ sheet of paper is too difficult and or
> wasteful of paper/ink?
> 
> That will give you 10 or 12 strips printed on just two sheets
> --showing the tones from warmest to coolest in combinations such 
as:
> 100/0, 95/5, 90/10...10/90, 5/95, 100/0. Well, I'm sure you get the
> picture. It might take you all of one hour to do the lot of them; 
then

> you simply use the curves (combination) that best suits your taste.
> That's far better, IMHO, than trying to simulate the paper tones on
> your monitor. Yes, you will need to do this same procedure for each
> paper/ink combination of interest. Not a big deal.
> 
> Phil

Then if you want you can use Eye One Match to scan the step wedges and
generate an ICC profile for hue soft proofing - if you have to soft proof
hue further. 

> From: Phil Rose <pjrose@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 04:30:54 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Problems with QTR
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve"
> <blizzie12@y...> wrote:
>> 
>> Gee, Diane, there has to be an easier way.
>>>   
> 
> Gee, Steve, surely you don't really think that printing six grayscale
> wedge strips on a _single_ sheet of paper is too difficult and or
> wasteful of paper/ink?
> 
> That will give you 10 or 12 strips printed on just two sheets
> --showing the tones from warmest to coolest in combinations such as:
> 100/0, 95/5, 90/10...10/90, 5/95, 100/0. Well, I'm sure you get the
> picture. It might take you all of one hour to do the lot of them; then
> you simply use the curves (combination) that best suits your taste.
> That's far better, IMHO, than trying to simulate the paper tones on
> your monitor. Yes, you will need to do this same procedure for each
> paper/ink combination of interest. Not a big deal.
> 
> Phil

I am a bit surprised that, if I understand correctly your description, you would repeatedly send the same paper with prior images through the printer.  I thought this was absolutely inadvisable.  Wrong?
Donald

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]