Digital BW, The Print

Well, I probably shouldn't answer this again as I just did answer it in the Quadtone forum for you, but other new folks to QTR may like to know also.  What it offers to me--is a reasonably priced RIP for monotones that does away with the metamerism that plagues prints done otherwise.  I have printed b/w-montones for quite a number of years, have subbed off and on to this list for several years also--and the alternatives were always fairly expensive (RIPs) or required me to dedicate a printer to b/w and use 3rd party inks/curves, etc.  I've contemplated doing this with my 1280 for several years since I bought my 2200 but, in truth, procrastinated about it, and when I resubbed to this list in late winter I discovered QTR--a reasonably priced RIP.  I demoed it for several weeks and bought it.  I do process in PS, softproof in PS, convert, print from QTR--and am quite happy with my monotone prints.  

I have just done a series of step wedges on 11 matte papers (some I just ordered like Innova papers and others from sample packs I've had for awhile or papers I use or have used).  This has helped a lot in giving me a reference for the curve blends I'll use with which paper--and also clarified for me what papers I really plan to use from now on (I do have a couple other papers I don't have yet and will do the same for them).

Since I'm pretty much a newbie at QTR also, but not at b/w prints, I thought I would just include my thoughts on it.

Diane

From: Steve 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:11 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Why Use QTR?



  I've just started using this software and wanted to hear from others 
  what the advantages for printing b&w versus other methods. I use an 
  Epson 2200 and I normally print on Enhanced Matte, Premium Luster,and 
  Ilford Smooth Pearl papers. I use PS CS for all my b&w processing 
  using a combination of methods. 

  What does the QTR offer that can't be achieved using more
  conventional printing and processing? I'd like to hear your opinions.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I've just started using this software and wanted to hear from others
 > what the advantages for printing b&w versus other methods. I use an
 > Epson 2200 and I normally print on Enhanced Matte, Premium Luster,and
 > Ilford Smooth Pearl papers. I use PS CS for all my b&w processing
 > using a combination of methods.

I think Diane has summarized it well in her response below.  The
alternatives to QTR are: (1) another (much more expensive) RIP; (2) black
only, which is fine if all you ever want to print is "neutral" black and
white but not good if you like a little variety, e.g. sepia, warm, cold,
etc.;  (3) one of the MIS inks and the Roark curves, also good when MIS gets
the inks right but they don't always get them right and the resulting odd
tones can drive you crazy trying figure out what's wrong until you learn
it's the inks, plus you don't have the variety of tones using Paul's curves
that you do with the QTR blends and you have to dedicate a printer to b&w;
(4) Piezo, which is expensive, requires a dedicated b&w printer, and also
limited in terms of different tones(I believe, I've never used Piezo); or
(5) Epson driver with UC inks, which means some unwanted color
tints/matamerism to your black and white prints.  There's probably something
I've left out but I think those are the basic alternatives to QTR.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Diane Fields" <picnic@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Why Use QTR?



Well, I probably shouldn't answer this again as I just did answer it in the
Quadtone forum for you, but other new folks to QTR may like to know also.
What it offers to me--is a reasonably priced RIP for monotones that does
away with the metamerism that plagues prints done otherwise.  I have printed
b/w-montones for quite a number of years, have subbed off and on to this
list for several years also--and the alternatives were always fairly
expensive (RIPs) or required me to dedicate a printer to b/w and use 3rd
party inks/curves, etc.  I've contemplated doing this with my 1280 for
several years since I bought my 2200 but, in truth, procrastinated about it,
and when I resubbed to this list in late winter I discovered QTR--a
reasonably priced RIP.  I demoed it for several weeks and bought it.  I do
process in PS, softproof in PS, convert, print from QTR--and am quite happy
with my monotone prints.

I have just done a series of step wedges on 11 matte papers (some I just
ordered like Innova papers and others from sample packs I've had for awhile
or papers I use or have used).  This has helped a lot in giving me a
reference for the curve blends I'll use with which paper--and also clarified
for me what papers I really plan to use from now on (I do have a couple
other papers I don't have yet and will do the same for them).

Since I'm pretty much a newbie at QTR also, but not at b/w prints, I thought
I would just include my thoughts on it.

Diane

From: Steve
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:11 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Why Use QTR?



  I've just started using this software and wanted to hear from others
  what the advantages for printing b&w versus other methods. I use an
  Epson 2200 and I normally print on Enhanced Matte, Premium Luster,and
  Ilford Smooth Pearl papers. I use PS CS for all my b&w processing
  using a combination of methods.

  What does the QTR offer that can't be achieved using more
  conventional printing and processing? I'd like to hear your opinions.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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I have done several comparisons of B/W prints from PS CS vs. QTRIP, and in the first case usually end up with a result that has a color cast or tint unlike from the latter.  My conclusion at this time is that this inexpensive RIP program is the better choice.
Donald

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> 
> > I've just started using this software and wanted to hear from others
>  > what the advantages for printing b&w versus other methods. I use an
>  > Epson 2200 and I normally print on Enhanced Matte, Premium Luster,and
>  > Ilford Smooth Pearl papers. I use PS CS for all my b&w processing
>  > using a combination of methods.
> ...


I strongly encourage the development of affordable, competitive rips like
QTR and IJC.  I think they and the Epson driver can make excellent prints,
and are the competitive systems I now see as most important.

My interest is to convert my B&W negatives into the best, most archival
prints I can, in the most efficient, easiest and cheapest way.  In some
respects, less is more for me -- software issues are included.

For me -- and the decision as to what system is best is very much dependent
on the circumstances and individual preferences -- Photoshop curves and the
Epson driver are what I use.  I wish those curves could also run on the
affordable rips, and I will continue to experiment with the rips.



Here are some of my thoughts as to the features I like best about the
competing approaches -- and competition is a necessary element for me:


Photoshop curves are the easiest for me to write, and I (and others) can use
those curves with Photoshop, Picture Window, and PS Elements (if the curves
are on layers).  My curves are not limited to a specific piece of software.


The most important feature of QTR, IJC, and the other third party rips may
be the ability to print metamerism-free B&W prints from the Epson
UltraChrome inkset.  

(That said, I'm a B&W printer, not a color printer.  So, the UC inkset is of
little interest.  The advantages of the dedicated B&W inksets, on the other
hand, include having smoother highlights (having ink dilutions that are less
than half the concentration of the UC LK); being more lightfast; being able
to print on glossy and matte paper without changing the black ink; and lower
cost, among others.)

For dedicated B&W inksets, the feature I think may be most important for
these rips is the semi-automatic linearization capability for those who have
and can use the equipment required.  

(For visual manipulation, a grayscale PS curve may be easier.  These can be
part of a curves layer set in PS.  In fact, the print can also be matched to
standard monitor calibration with such a curve.)



This is not an exhaustive list of factors, but just the ones that currently
strike me as most significant.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I have just read Paul Roark's thoughts on QTR and black-only inks. I 
have also just begun to be able to use QTR with my Epson 2200 (thanks 
to a couple of people on this forum), and have also just received an 
order of inks and cartridges from MIS to fit the 2200.  If I'm just 
printing b&w, I gather that Paul thinks the MIS inks would be the 
route to take. In doing that, is there any reason to print through 
QTR rather than the standard Epson drivers?  I do have an Epson C86 
which is currently using MIS inks, but assume that the greater number 
of cartridges in the 2200 will produce somewhat better (smoother?) 
tonalities.  Any thoughts?  Thanks,  Edward--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > 
> > > I've just started using this software and wanted to hear from 
others
> >  > what the advantages for printing b&w versus other methods. I 
use an
> >  > Epson 2200 and I normally print on Enhanced Matte, Premium 
Luster,and
> >  > Ilford Smooth Pearl papers. I use PS CS for all my b&w 
processing
> >  > using a combination of methods.
> > ...
> 
> 
> I strongly encourage the development of affordable, competitive 
rips like
> QTR and IJC.  I think they and the Epson driver can make excellent 
prints,
> and are the competitive systems I now see as most important.
> 
> My interest is to convert my B&W negatives into the best, most 
archival
> prints I can, in the most efficient, easiest and cheapest way.  In 
some
> respects, less is more for me -- software issues are included.
> 
> For me -- and the decision as to what system is best is very much 
dependent
> on the circumstances and individual preferences -- Photoshop curves 
and the
> Epson driver are what I use.  I wish those curves could also run on 
the
> affordable rips, and I will continue to experiment with the rips.
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of my thoughts as to the features I like best about 
the
> competing approaches -- and competition is a necessary element for 
me:
> 
> 
> Photoshop curves are the easiest for me to write, and I (and 
others) can use
> those curves with Photoshop, Picture Window, and PS Elements (if 
the curves
> are on layers).  My curves are not limited to a specific piece of 
software.
> 
> 
> The most important feature of QTR, IJC, and the other third party 
rips may
> be the ability to print metamerism-free B&W prints from the Epson
> UltraChrome inkset.  
> 
> (That said, I'm a B&W printer, not a color printer.  So, the UC 
inkset is of
> little interest.  The advantages of the dedicated B&W inksets, on 
the other
> hand, include having smoother highlights (having ink dilutions that 
are less
> than half the concentration of the UC LK); being more lightfast; 
being able
> to print on glossy and matte paper without changing the black ink; 
and lower
> cost, among others.)
> 
> For dedicated B&W inksets, the feature I think may be most 
important for
> these rips is the semi-automatic linearization capability for those 
who have
> and can use the equipment required.  
> 
> (For visual manipulation, a grayscale PS curve may be easier.  
These can be
> part of a curves layer set in PS.  In fact, the print can also be 
matched to
> standard monitor calibration with such a curve.)
> 
> 
> 
> This is not an exhaustive list of factors, but just the ones that 
currently

> strike me as most significant.  
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks Paul, that is very helpful.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > 
> > > I've just started using this software and wanted to hear from 
others
> >  > what the advantages for printing b&w versus other methods. I 
use an
> >  > Epson 2200 and I normally print on Enhanced Matte, Premium 
Luster,and
> >  > Ilford Smooth Pearl papers. I use PS CS for all my b&w 
processing
> >  > using a combination of methods.
> > ...
> 
> 
> I strongly encourage the development of affordable, competitive 
rips like
> QTR and IJC.  I think they and the Epson driver can make excellent 
prints,
> and are the competitive systems I now see as most important.
> 
> My interest is to convert my B&W negatives into the best, most 
archival
> prints I can, in the most efficient, easiest and cheapest way.  In 
some
> respects, less is more for me -- software issues are included.
> 
> For me -- and the decision as to what system is best is very much 
dependent
> on the circumstances and individual preferences -- Photoshop 
curves and the
> Epson driver are what I use.  I wish those curves could also run 
on the
> affordable rips, and I will continue to experiment with the rips.
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some of my thoughts as to the features I like best about 
the
> competing approaches -- and competition is a necessary element for 
me:
> 
> 
> Photoshop curves are the easiest for me to write, and I (and 
others) can use
> those curves with Photoshop, Picture Window, and PS Elements (if 
the curves
> are on layers).  My curves are not limited to a specific piece of 
software.
> 
> 
> The most important feature of QTR, IJC, and the other third party 
rips may
> be the ability to print metamerism-free B&W prints from the Epson
> UltraChrome inkset.  
> 
> (That said, I'm a B&W printer, not a color printer.  So, the UC 
inkset is of
> little interest.  The advantages of the dedicated B&W inksets, on 
the other
> hand, include having smoother highlights (having ink dilutions 
that are less
> than half the concentration of the UC LK); being more lightfast; 
being able
> to print on glossy and matte paper without changing the black ink; 
and lower
> cost, among others.)
> 
> For dedicated B&W inksets, the feature I think may be most 
important for
> these rips is the semi-automatic linearization capability for 
those who have
> and can use the equipment required.  
> 
> (For visual manipulation, a grayscale PS curve may be easier.  
These can be
> part of a curves layer set in PS.  In fact, the print can also be 
matched to
> standard monitor calibration with such a curve.)
> 
> 
> 
> This is not an exhaustive list of factors, but just the ones that 
currently

> strike me as most significant.  
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com