Digital BW, The Print

There's little contribution to Digital B&W printing from Europe but 
Lyson's quads, Ilfords quad pigments and Ergosoft's Studioprint-Posterprint.
Some days ago I did receive a message from artphotogallery Switzerland 
(I guess). Nice portfolios and some biased opinions on inkjet printing 
inks etc. They have a RIP for UC printers for sale. I guess this is 
another Gimp-Print spin-off given the price and the XP + OS-X support. 
Wonder on what aspects it differs from the ones we know already or maybe 
there's no difference at all.

http://www.artphotogallery.org/shop/rip.html

Ernst

Ernst, this is the first I've heard of it. But it looks like another
UC B&W solution. Since GimpPrint is open source, I imagine it's
something like Roy's work or even a copy.
They seem to make some rather extraorinary claims, though I had to
look at a site translation.
Best blacks yet? With UC ink?
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> There's little contribution to Digital B&W printing from Europe but 
> Lyson's quads, Ilfords quad pigments and Ergosoft's
Studioprint-Posterprint.
> Some days ago I did receive a message from artphotogallery Switzerland 
> (I guess). Nice portfolios and some biased opinions on inkjet printing 
> inks etc. They have a RIP for UC printers for sale. I guess this is 
> another Gimp-Print spin-off given the price and the XP + OS-X support. 
> Wonder on what aspects it differs from the ones we know already or
maybe 

> there's no difference at all.
> 
> http://www.artphotogallery.org/shop/rip.html
> 
> Ernst

Tyler Boley wrote:

>Ernst, this is the first I've heard of it. But it looks like another
>UC B&W solution. Since GimpPrint is open source, I imagine it's
>something like Roy's work or even a copy.
>They seem to make some rather extraorinary claims, though I had to
>look at a site translation.
>Best blacks yet? With UC ink?
>Tyler
>
>  
>
There's very little information on that site what the RIP looks like and 
what it can do. But I'm curious about its development ...............  
Extraordinary claims indeed, I don't think it can be better than the US 
RIPs on UC B&W printing as the limitation is in the hardware of UC 
printers and inks. It doesn't drive quad ink printers so it is more 
limited in total.  They have experience with MIS inks and Piezography 
but consider their RIP + Epson's UC models as the best, better than 
Imageprint etc. There's a line in the text that says that MK, PK and LK 
are used for the B&W print and a minimal use of the color inks, we know 
that it can only be two of the Ks per page printed.

They sell a bundle that will be 198 SFR in total of RIP, HM paper, 
calibration prints, profiles, prints by Peter Gasser etc and I guess the 
100 SFR shareware isn't included but they expect you to pay that later 
on if you like the RIP.  Their claim is that this is the best existing 
deal in RIP software. They do not show a download link nor are they 
clear whether you can ask for a copy by email. I find this a bit fishy, 
if it is based on open source (but I see no text indicating it is open 
source) then it may even be in conflict with open source when it is only 
possible to get it in that packet deal. If it isn't open source why not 
make the deal in total right away and pay back when the RIP isn't 
satisfying.

My guess is that they follow the lists as well so we may get an answer 
here. Too many references to software, inks and methods that were 
discussed here (and considered inferior on their web page) so they know 
this list and/or the piezography list.

Ernst.

I did not even know that Peter Gasser is working digital. 
If he works with their system they have a very strong  argument.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
...
> There's very little information on that site what the RIP looks like
and 
> what it can do. But I'm curious about its development ...............  
...
> ...Their claim is that this is the best existing 
> deal in RIP software. They do not show a download link nor are they 
> clear whether you can ask for a copy by email. I find this a bit
fishy...

uh huh

> My guess is that they follow the lists as well so we may get an answer 
> here. Too many references to software, inks and methods that were 
> discussed here (and considered inferior on their web page) so they know 
> this list and/or the piezography list.

If they are nearly as good as developing RIPs as they are spamming me
(no doubt having ripped all these lists) it could be a winner!
Fishy indeed.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, AWStolzing@a...
wrote:
> I did not even know that Peter Gasser is working digital. 
> If he works with their system they have a very strong  argument.

I don't know about that, he was touting his Piezography prints as THE
ANSWER before this.
There was nothing unusual about the process he was using then, and
probably not now given the track record.
I understand he is a respected and accomplished artist, but he has
fallen under the spell of some bad marketing program.
My opinion of coarse, for what it's worth.
Maybe someone should try it out, but not me.
Tyler

Thank you for the warning. By the way, they write in their site that Gasser  
paid dearly for his now acquired wisdom in digital photography - a fate quite 
a  few of us share, I assume.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- 
This looks like it might be a nice website. Is there an English page?


In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:

> There's little contribution to Digital B&W printing from Europe but 
> Lyson's quads, Ilfords quad pigments and Ergosoft's Studioprint-Posterprint.
> Some days ago I did receive a message from artphotogallery Switzerland 
> (I guess). Nice portfolios and some biased opinions on inkjet printing 
> inks etc. They have a RIP for UC printers for sale. I guess this is 
> another Gimp-Print spin-off given the price and the XP + OS-X support. 
> Wonder on what aspects it differs from the ones we know already or maybe 
> there's no difference at all.
> 
> http://www.artphotogallery.org/shop/rip.html
> 
> Ernst

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@t...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, AWStolzing@a...
> wrote:
> > I did not even know that Peter Gasser is working digital. 
> > If he works with their system they have a very strong  argument.
> 
> I don't know about that, he was touting his Piezography prints as THE
> ANSWER before this.
> There was nothing unusual about the process he was using then, and
> probably not now given the track record.
> I understand he is a respected and accomplished artist, but he has
> fallen under the spell of some bad marketing program.
> My opinion of coarse, for what it's worth.
> Maybe someone should try it out, but not me.
> Tyler


II asked them by email what program their rip is based on and whether it allows the user 
to build profiles.

I got a answer from Peter Gasser who said that it is based on "open source gimp print" 
code. But to do a reasonable test you would need  "suitable"  files and papers and so their 
rip is only availiable in a package with some files and hahnemuehle papers along with 2 
Gasser prints.

Not the type of making business I like.

Andreas

Andreas,

seems to me this is more of a underhanded way to sell the prints by 
Peter Gasser than anything else.

I agree with you that this is not a business model I will use either.

If they are really serious about marketing and supporting this RIP  - 
as opposed to selling his prints - they will make it possible to 
download the program, include some profiles and make the website 
accessible in English - as a start...

Shall we make a bet that this RIP will fail to make a dent in the 
market?

Christer


			Christer, AKA Christer Rosewell
			  http://www.ChristerArt.com
		  	   3.6 million visitors to date..


On Apr 5, 2005, at 4:35 PM, 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Subject: Re: Anyone familiar with this RIP ?
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
> <tyler@t...> wrote:
>>
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, AWStolzing@a...
>> wrote:
>>> I did not even know that Peter Gasser is working digital.
>>> If he works with their system they have a very strong  argument.
>>
>> I don't know about that, he was touting his Piezography prints as THE
>> ANSWER before this.
>> There was nothing unusual about the process he was using then, and
>> probably not now given the track record.
>> I understand he is a respected and accomplished artist, but he has
>> fallen under the spell of some bad marketing program.
>> My opinion of coarse, for what it's worth.
>> Maybe someone should try it out, but not me.
>> Tyler
>
>
> II asked them by email what program their rip is based on and whether 
> it allows the user
> to build profiles.
>
> I got a answer from Peter Gasser who said that it is based on "open 
> source gimp print"
> code. But to do a reasonable test you would need  "suitable"  files 
> and papers and so their
> rip is only availiable in a package with some files and hahnemuehle 
> papers along with 2
> Gasser prints.
>
> Not the type of making business I like.
>
> Andreas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Christer 
Rosewelll <christerart@m...> wrote:
> Andreas,
> 
> seems to me this is more of a underhanded way to sell the prints by 
> Peter Gasser than anything else.
> 
> I agree with you that this is not a business model I will use 
either.
> 
> If they are really serious about marketing and supporting this 
RIP  - 
> as opposed to selling his prints - they will make it possible to 
> download the program, include some profiles and make the website 
> accessible in English - as a start...
> 
> Shall we make a bet that this RIP will fail to make a dent in the 
> market?


I couldn't even get the page to load... Now that's starting on the 
right foot.

steveh0607 wrote:

>--- 
>This looks like it might be a nice website. Is there an English page?
>  
>

Not that I know. The images are better than the text though, so why 
bother ;-)

Ernst

Christer Rosewelll wrote:

>If they are really serious about marketing and supporting this RIP  - 
>as opposed to selling his prints - they will make it possible to 
>download the program, include some profiles and make the website 
>accessible in English - as a start...
>
>Shall we make a bet that this RIP will fail to make a dent in the 
>market?
>
>  
>

You may be mistaken about the absence of English and making a dent in 
the market.  There's a total German market of at least a 100 million 
people, first, second or third language for them  The only competition 
with German web pages will be Ergosoft's pages for Studioprint and 
Posterprint and that is in another price category.  Some publications in 
German photography magazines and this RIP has a market. Considering 
their efforts in spamming they will get in the magazines as well.

I think this site will get its English and French pages faster than the 
US RIP sites get Spanish pages.

A kind of English will rule the world in a 100 years, it isn't there yet.

Ernst

Not a German BTW.

Let's hope it isn't too bastardised by then.... ;-)

> From: Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...>

> 
> A kind of English will rule the world in a 100 years, it isn't there yet.
>

Steve Kale wrote:

>Let's hope it isn't too bastardised by then.... ;-)
>
>
>  
>
>>From: Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>A kind of English will rule the world in a 100 years, it isn't there yet.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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Steve Kale wrote:

>Let's hope it isn't too bastardised by then.... ;-)
>
>
>  
>
>>From: Ernst Dinkla <E.Dinkla@...>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>A kind of English will rule the world in a 100 years, it isn't there yet.
>>
>>    
>>

You may hope it will not be, we are not that much concerned as you may 
have noticed and 1B Chinese will do the rest.  It was a virgin language 
when the Mayflower set sail :-)

Ernst

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "steveh0607"
<steveh060758@m...> wrote:
> 
> --- 
> This looks like it might be a nice website. Is there an English
page?

I have been led to their website too by an email and have looked at
the RIP - actually I wanted to ask the question about the RIP one of
these days. 

Being german I could actually translate the article, just not right
now because too much work. Basically it sounds like a self- promotion
of the RIP - very promising description, but this doesn't mean
anything of course. 
Essentially it says 
1. the cheapest RIP on the market 
2. Shareware fee in case of full satisfaction experience - 100SFR must
be about 65USD or so. 
3. Equal or better results (surprise surprise!!!) than the Imageprint
and other well- known pro RIPs. 
4. No metamerism because only useage of black and light black, and
very few color inks, probably for toning. 
5. Ready profiles, from cool to full sepia. 

etc etc. Nothing surprising. One can order a sample print 20x30cm on
30x40cm Hahnemuehle paper.

All in all almost too cheap to not try it out for someone who is on UC
Epson inks. I am not at the moment so it is of no use for me.

Maybe I will again if I will have a 7600 later this year.

regards, Bernie

Bernie Ess wrote:

>
>Essentially it says 
>1. the cheapest RIP on the market 
>2. Shareware fee in case of full satisfaction experience - 100SFR must
>be about 65USD or so. 
>  
>
Bernie, more like 85 USD I think

I think you only saw the shareware price of 100 SFR mentioned at the RIP 
page. Check also the price list (at the bottom). The deal starts at 198 
SFR for the package and it is a bit confusing whether the 198 includes 
the shareware price or not. The two pages contradict one another. It 
still is a low price in both cases but not the cheapest RIP on the 
market. The RIP is also limited to UC B&W printing. Nice to get UC HM 
profiles included but they also tell you that custom profiling per 
printer could improve on the quality they already promise. Hard to judge 
without trying the UCrip but I think that QTR has more to offer for an 
even lower price.

We have been told that it is open source, Gimp-Print based, I don't 
think they can do the business the way they do it now. If I'm not 
mistaken they should add a free download for part of the software at 
least and next to that they can ask shareware money. That's how Martin 
Wuerthner, writer of the Risc Os Gimp-Print port does it, that's how Roy 
does it with QTR.

Ernst