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1160: UT-FS and which paper? or QTR? or...?

1160: UT-FS and which paper? or QTR? or...?

2005-04-07 by Peter Aronson

Help! I need a paper suggestion, please.

I have a client who wants to purchase one of my photos ASAP, and so
I'm looking for a fairly plug-and-play solution using my 1160 (which I
haven't used in a while but which I purged with cleaning carts before
storing it, so hopefully it still works. That's really a whole other
discussion.).

I think I'd like to use UT-FS, because I used to use MIS-FSN and found
them to be just a bit too cool for my taste. Hoping UT-FS isn't
noticeably warm or sepia-ish, just not so cool.

Anyway, the question is which paper to use with UT-FS that will allow
me to print without reinventing the wheel, because of the time
pressure. With the MIS-FSN, I had printed on EEM with good results
using Jeff Randall's curves, although the blacks weren't as black as I
would have liked. Does anyone have experience using UT-FS with these
curves? I still have EEM, but as I understand it, it's no longer seen
as being particularly archival, right?

So I guess I'm looking for a paper that comes close to the deep blacks
of Photo Rag, with minimal or no flaking, good archivality (there's
that whole question of to OBA or not to OBA...), and that will work
with either an existing curve or QTR or something like that. Any
recommendations?

Also, which black should I buy to go with UT-FS?

Thanks,
Peter

RE: [Digital BW] 1160: UT-FS and which paper? or QTR? or...?

2005-04-07 by Paul Roark

Peter,

I have curves for the UT-FS, EEM and Photo Rag.  The 1160 with UT-FS can
actually be printed with no curve or just a grayscale curve, so adjustment
to any paper would be rather easy.

Permajet Delta or Omega, or Innova are cotton based papers with a dmax
usually between EEM and Photo Rag, and I think they flake less and have a
bit tougher surface.  On the other hand, if you use air to blow off the
Photo Rag it should be fine, especially if you don't need to mail the print.

Use Eboni black for matte papers.

Let me know off list if you want my curves for the 1160 and UT-FS.  (They're
not posted on my web page.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Aronson [mailto:groups@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 5:31 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] 1160: UT-FS and which paper? or QTR? or...?
> 
> 
> 
> Help! I need a paper suggestion, please.
> 
> I have a client who wants to purchase one of my photos ASAP, and so
> I'm looking for a fairly plug-and-play solution using my 1160 (which I
> haven't used in a while but which I purged with cleaning carts before
> storing it, so hopefully it still works. That's really a whole other
> discussion.).
> 
> I think I'd like to use UT-FS, because I used to use MIS-FSN and found
> them to be just a bit too cool for my taste. Hoping UT-FS isn't
> noticeably warm or sepia-ish, just not so cool.
> 
> Anyway, the question is which paper to use with UT-FS that will allow
> me to print without reinventing the wheel, because of the time
> pressure. With the MIS-FSN, I had printed on EEM with good results
> using Jeff Randall's curves, although the blacks weren't as black as I
> would have liked. Does anyone have experience using UT-FS with these
> curves? I still have EEM, but as I understand it, it's no longer seen
> as being particularly archival, right?
> 
> So I guess I'm looking for a paper that comes close to the deep blacks
> of Photo Rag, with minimal or no flaking, good archivality (there's
> that whole question of to OBA or not to OBA...), and that will work
> with either an existing curve or QTR or something like that. Any
> recommendations?
> 
> Also, which black should I buy to go with UT-FS?
> 
> Thanks,
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: 1160: UT-FS and which paper? or QTR? or...?

2005-04-07 by Peter Aronson

Thanks for the info and the offer, Paul. I'll repond off-line.

But I do have some more questions about paper:

1. How archival is EEM with UT-FS? Can I consider EEM to be one of the
archival options (i.e. no fading or yellowing for at least a few
decades)? I still have a lot of it on hand, so it would be nice to be
able to use it.

2. I do need to mail the print. Rolling it is out of the question,
right? I plan to pack it in an archival polyethylene bag from
clearbags.com

3. I investigated the 3 options you mentioned, and Permajet Delta
sounds very promising, but where can I buy it online? None of the 3
listed Permajet online distributors (Adorama, MIS, KM Photo) appear to
have it. I need to buy from someplace or someone willing to ship to
Mexico City...

Thanks,
Peter

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Peter,
> 
> I have curves for the UT-FS, EEM and Photo Rag.  The 1160 with UT-FS can
> actually be printed with no curve or just a grayscale curve, so
adjustment
> to any paper would be rather easy.
> 
> Permajet Delta or Omega, or Innova are cotton based papers with a dmax
> usually between EEM and Photo Rag, and I think they flake less and
have a
> bit tougher surface.  On the other hand, if you use air to blow off the
> Photo Rag it should be fine, especially if you don't need to mail
the print.
> 
> Use Eboni black for matte papers.

Re: 1160: UT-FS and which paper? or QTR? or...?

2005-04-07 by Peter Aronson

Well, I found out that Permajet Delta can be ordered directly from
JOBO/Permajet <http://www.permajetusa.com>, but unfortunately if I
want it (or apparently any other 13x19 papers) sent to me here in
Mexico via air, it's going to cost a whopping 60 dollars minimum for
shipping due to the dimensions of the package. I'd really prefer to
save my money and buy the paper the next time I'm in the U.S.

As I said, I do have some EEM on hand, but from what I've been able to
find out about EEM online, it looks like it's not acid-free, and thus
I gather that I shouldn't consider it a truly archival option.

Peter

RE: [Digital BW] Re: 1160: UT-FS and which paper? or QTR? or...?

2005-04-08 by Paul Roark

Peter,

> 
> 1. How archival is EEM with UT-FS? ...

It is very lightfast, but since it is acidic, it is not archival.  Wilhelm
rates is as having a storage life of just over 100 years. However, that is
in ideal conditions.  In hot, humid environments, the life might be much
shorter.  Wilhelm originally warned of yellowing in 30 years.  There are
some stories of yellowing in Florida in just a few years, but if that was
with the older pigs, I wonder if that was the warming of the pigs they were
seeing. 


> 2. I do need to mail the print. Rolling it is out of the question,
> right? I plan to pack it in an archival polyethylene bag from
> clearbags.com

Many roll prints.  I think it's tacky for anything above a poster.  I
recommend spraying with Lascaux Fixativ before shipping.


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Re: 1160: UT-FS and which paper? or QTR? or...?

2005-04-08 by Paul Roark

For Jobo paper, call Jobo at 800-664-0344 and mention my name.  See if they
give you a discount (or hang up on you).   If the person on the phone is
confused, ask for Mark.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Aronson [mailto:groups@...]
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 9:43 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 1160: UT-FS and which paper? or QTR? or...?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I found out that Permajet Delta can be ordered directly from
> JOBO/Permajet <http://www.permajetusa.com>, but unfortunately if I
> want it (or apparently any other 13x19 papers) sent to me here in
> Mexico via air, it's going to cost a whopping 60 dollars minimum for
> shipping due to the dimensions of the package. I'd really prefer to
> save my money and buy the paper the next time I'm in the U.S.
> 
> As I said, I do have some EEM on hand, but from what I've been able to
> find out about EEM online, it looks like it's not acid-free, and thus
> I gather that I shouldn't consider it a truly archival option.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: 1160: UT-FS and which paper? or QTR? -Paul

2005-04-08 by dlruckus

Paul,
Thanks for your recent response on paper curves.

In regard to EEM yellowing in Florida.--It doesn't necessarily take
years. I had some of the Archival labeled paper yellow while sitting
on an open shelf for only a few days. I was making small test prints
and left a stack scattered on a shelf. The edges and corners exposed
yellowed in less than a week. I don't think it was warming but may
well have had something to do with OBA burnoff. I also have prints on
EEM that have been around now for a couple of years and have Not
yellowed, so it's anybodys guess. I did decide that any EEM prints I
gave away for display would be matted flush to the image and signed
directly on the print so as to avoid comparisons to the papers white
borders and matt whites.

Regards
Duane

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Peter,
> 
> > 
> > 1. How archival is EEM with UT-FS? ...
> 
> It is very lightfast, but since it is acidic, it is not archival. 
Wilhelm
> rates is as having a storage life of just over 100 years. However,
that is
> in ideal conditions.  In hot, humid environments, the life might be much
> shorter.  Wilhelm originally warned of yellowing in 30 years.  There are
> some stories of yellowing in Florida in just a few years, but if
that was
> with the older pigs, I wonder if that was the warming of the pigs
they were
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> seeing. 
> 
> 
> > 2. I do need to mail the print. Rolling it is out of the question,
> > right? I plan to pack it in an archival polyethylene bag from
> > clearbags.com
> 
> Many roll prints.  I think it's tacky for anything above a poster.  I
> recommend spraying with Lascaux Fixativ before shipping.
> 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

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