Digital BW, The Print

My experience with making injet digital negatives for silver prints

Being somewhat frustrated by my lack of more precise control in the
traditional darkroom now that I have been exposed to Photoshop, I 
have experimented with Mark Nelson's Precision Digital Negative 
system to make black and white digital injet negatives and then 
contact print them on silver paper.

I have used my Epson R800 printer and Pictorico White film for the 
negative. I have used Ilford Multigrade IV fiber glossy paper and 
traditional processing with selenium toning. I feel that I have been 
completely sucessful and have been able to avoid the microbanding 
that others have complained about.

Here are more details:

The precision Digital Negative process uses these steps.

-Determine a standard silver printing time with a 21 step wedge
-determine a color density to use for printing the negative
-use this to fit the range of tones to the paper and process
-print a negative with a full range of tones using the above steps 
and make a contact print
-measure those contact printed tones with a densitometer or scanner.
-manufacture a correction Photoshop curve to linearize those tones.

What this gives you is a repeatable process that takes advantage of 
the full range of your paper and makes it possible to transfer what 
you see on the screen directly to your darkroom paper. No more 
manual dodging, burning, flashing, contrast filter manipulation, 
exposure determination,unsharp masking, waiting for drydown etc.
The Precision Digital Negative system gives you all the instructions 
and the software to do all the steps very precisely so that all of 
this is repeatable once you calibrate your working environment.

I noticed two main things as I worked my way through this prcess.

First, the system has you pick a color density of ink to use for 
making the negative because I believe most people who use this 
system are interested in platinum work where UV light is used and 
therefore using the different color inks can make a difference here. 
I found that for silver work, choosing just a color of ink did not 
supply enough density to fit a full range of tones on variable 
contrast paper without cranking the contrast filter of my enlarger
(used as a fancy contact printing light source) way up to level five 
and this did not look good at all. So I fell back on using the 
printer's full bore ink rendition of producing a black and white 
negative with all the color inks. Now it was possible to make a 
negative that worked with varible contrast paper set at the filter 
#1 level and the results looked great.

Secondly, I found that indeed I did get very faint microbanding when 
I printed the inkjet negative at the "best photo" setting of the 
R800 which corresponds to a dpi setting of 2880. It was very faint 
and only visible in the creamy highlights of skin tones. My friends 
didn't see it until I pointed it out and then they could. I was not 
satisfied with this and felt maybe this process couldn't be done 
well with silver paper. BUT, I tried again with the "RPM" setting on 
the Epson driver which corresponds to a dpi setting of 5760. Well, 
after recalibrating the process to this new dpi setting, the results 
were fabulous. Recalibrating the system was absolutely necessary in 
that it was clear that the ink was laid down with very different 
density at this higher setting. This step solved, in my system,
the microbanding issue that some have spoken of in forums. I believe 
now that this print is indistinguishable from my enlarger made print 
except that the control of the tones is so much better than I am 
amazed.

This was an 8x10 negative and print. My original plan was to upgrade 
to the R1800 printer so that I could make 11x14 negatives and 
prints. With the new Epson R2400 coming out, I will hold off to see 
what that printer will be like. However, both printers offer 
the "RPM" or 5760 dpi setting that appears to be crucial to getting 
rid of the light microbanding on exceptionally unforgiving silver 
gelatin paper. My suspicion is that this might not work with the 
2200 printer. For platinum work on art papers, this system will have 
no problems and if I did those processes, I would be all over this 
system in a heart beat!

So there you have it. After a month of experimenting, I feel that 
this sytem will truly work with the current newest Epson printers 
and may be an ideal hybridization between the control of Photoshop 
and the wonderful dmax and luster/feel of silver gelatin papers.

Please feel free to comment.

At 04:40 +0000 22.5.2005, Scott Jones wrote:
*******************************************

>So there you have it. After a month of experimenting, I feel that
>this sytem will truly work with the current newest Epson printers
>and may be an ideal hybridization between the control of Photoshop
>and the wonderful dmax and luster/feel of silver gelatin papers.
>
>Please feel free to comment.

There is Agfa SelectJet and CopyJet films, they shoud work for such 
negatives too.

My 0.02 EUR

Martin
--

Martin,

> There is Agfa SelectJet and CopyJet films, they shoud work for such 
> negatives too.
> 
> My 0.02 EUR
>

AFAIK, these products are not availabe in the US. I think Lotus Camera 
may sell from Europe but I'm not sure if that would be economical.

Don Bryant

Thanks for sharing your experience. What did you mean by "using the 
printers full bore ink rendition?

Al Charbonneau

 In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Jones" 
<peanutdogs@h...> wrote:
> My experience with making injet digital negatives for silver prints
> 
> Being somewhat frustrated by my lack of more precise control in the
> traditional darkroom now that I have been exposed to Photoshop, I 
> have experimented with Mark Nelson's Precision Digital Negative 
> system to make black and white digital injet negatives and then 
> contact print them on silver paper.
> 
> I have used my Epson R800 printer and Pictorico White film for the 
> negative. I have used Ilford Multigrade IV fiber glossy paper and 
> traditional processing with selenium toning. I feel that I have 
been 
> completely sucessful and have been able to avoid the microbanding 
> that others have complained about.
> 
> Here are more details:
> 
> The precision Digital Negative process uses these steps.
> 
> -Determine a standard silver printing time with a 21 step wedge
> -determine a color density to use for printing the negative
> -use this to fit the range of tones to the paper and process
> -print a negative with a full range of tones using the above steps 
> and make a contact print
> -measure those contact printed tones with a densitometer or 
scanner.
> -manufacture a correction Photoshop curve to linearize those tones.
> 
> What this gives you is a repeatable process that takes advantage 
of 
> the full range of your paper and makes it possible to transfer 
what 
> you see on the screen directly to your darkroom paper. No more 
> manual dodging, burning, flashing, contrast filter manipulation, 
> exposure determination,unsharp masking, waiting for drydown etc.
> The Precision Digital Negative system gives you all the 
instructions 
> and the software to do all the steps very precisely so that all of 
> this is repeatable once you calibrate your working environment.
> 
> I noticed two main things as I worked my way through this prcess.
> 
> First, the system has you pick a color density of ink to use for 
> making the negative because I believe most people who use this 
> system are interested in platinum work where UV light is used and 
> therefore using the different color inks can make a difference 
here. 
> I found that for silver work, choosing just a color of ink did not 
> supply enough density to fit a full range of tones on variable 
> contrast paper without cranking the contrast filter of my enlarger
> (used as a fancy contact printing light source) way up to level 
five 
> and this did not look good at all. So I fell back on using the 
> printer's full bore ink rendition of producing a black and white 
> negative with all the color inks. Now it was possible to make a 
> negative that worked with varible contrast paper set at the filter 
> #1 level and the results looked great.
> 
> Secondly, I found that indeed I did get very faint microbanding 
when 
> I printed the inkjet negative at the "best photo" setting of the 
> R800 which corresponds to a dpi setting of 2880. It was very faint 
> and only visible in the creamy highlights of skin tones. My 
friends 
> didn't see it until I pointed it out and then they could. I was 
not 
> satisfied with this and felt maybe this process couldn't be done 
> well with silver paper. BUT, I tried again with the "RPM" setting 
on 
> the Epson driver which corresponds to a dpi setting of 5760. Well, 
> after recalibrating the process to this new dpi setting, the 
results 
> were fabulous. Recalibrating the system was absolutely necessary 
in 
> that it was clear that the ink was laid down with very different 
> density at this higher setting. This step solved, in my system,
> the microbanding issue that some have spoken of in forums. I 
believe 
> now that this print is indistinguishable from my enlarger made 
print 
> except that the control of the tones is so much better than I am 
> amazed.
> 
> This was an 8x10 negative and print. My original plan was to 
upgrade 
> to the R1800 printer so that I could make 11x14 negatives and 
> prints. With the new Epson R2400 coming out, I will hold off to 
see 
> what that printer will be like. However, both printers offer 
> the "RPM" or 5760 dpi setting that appears to be crucial to 
getting 
> rid of the light microbanding on exceptionally unforgiving silver 
> gelatin paper. My suspicion is that this might not work with the 
> 2200 printer. For platinum work on art papers, this system will 
have 

> no problems and if I did those processes, I would be all over this 
> system in a heart beat!
> 
> So there you have it. After a month of experimenting, I feel that 
> this sytem will truly work with the current newest Epson printers 
> and may be an ideal hybridization between the control of Photoshop 
> and the wonderful dmax and luster/feel of silver gelatin papers.
> 
> Please feel free to comment.

"Thanks for sharing your experience. What did you mean by "using the 
printers full bore ink rendition?"
--------------------------------------------------
Mark Nelson's Precision Digital Negative system has you pick a
"color" for printing your negatives that is determined in the 
calibration process. It is usually a pure R, G, or B tone plus a 
slight mix in of one of the other two. This makes for a brightly 
colored negative and is used because of the varying UV transmision 
characteristics of the colored inks, since most of his work is 
platinum which uses a UV light source.

In my case, I am using silver variable contrast paper. I found that
if I used one of his color mixes, I could not get enough density of 
ink on the negative substrate to get a wide range of tones without 
cranking the contrast filter setting way up to the top and the image 
looked terrible.

So, I abandoned (at his suggestion) the color picking step and just
let the printer driver use all of its inks to make a full Black and 
white negative image on the negative substrate. This way there was a 
lot more ink on the substrate and it worked beautifully.

Don't hesitate to ask more questions...

Scott,

Is there any way that we can see some examples?

Sounds exciting.


Rick Murai

www.richardmurai.com
http://www.hawaii.edu/mjournal/text/issues/descriptions/cambodia04.html

> "Thanks for sharing your experience. What did you mean by "using the
> printers full bore ink rendition?"
> --------------------------------------------------
> Mark Nelson's Precision Digital Negative system has you pick a
> "color" for printing your negatives that is determined in the
> calibration process. It is usually a pure R, G, or B tone plus a
> slight mix in of one of the other two. This makes for a brightly
> colored negative and is used because of the varying UV transmision
> characteristics of the colored inks, since most of his work is
> platinum which uses a UV light source.
> 
> In my case, I am using silver variable contrast paper. I found that
> if I used one of his color mixes, I could not get enough density of
> ink on the negative substrate to get a wide range of tones without
> cranking the contrast filter setting way up to the top and the image
> looked terrible.
> 
> So, I abandoned (at his suggestion) the color picking step and just
> let the printer driver use all of its inks to make a full Black and
> white negative image on the negative substrate. This way there was a
> lot more ink on the substrate and it worked beautifully.
> 
> Don't hesitate to ask more questions...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
> “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

There is a good article "Precision Digital Negatives: From Silver to 
Ink" in the December 2004/January2005 issue of Camera Arts 
magazine.  The article was written by Mark Nelson, the fellow who 
invented this approach.

Al 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, R Murai 
<rmurai@e...> wrote:
> Scott,
> 
> Is there any way that we can see some examples?
> 
> Sounds exciting.
> 
> 
> Rick Murai
> 
> www.richardmurai.com
> 
http://www.hawaii.edu/mjournal/text/issues/descriptions/cambodia04.ht
ml
> 
> 
> 
> > "Thanks for sharing your experience. What did you mean by "using 
the
> > printers full bore ink rendition?"
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > Mark Nelson's Precision Digital Negative system has you pick a
> > "color" for printing your negatives that is determined in the
> > calibration process. It is usually a pure R, G, or B tone plus a
> > slight mix in of one of the other two. This makes for a brightly
> > colored negative and is used because of the varying UV 
transmision
> > characteristics of the colored inks, since most of his work is
> > platinum which uses a UV light source.
> > 
> > In my case, I am using silver variable contrast paper. I found 
that
> > if I used one of his color mixes, I could not get enough density 
of
> > ink on the negative substrate to get a wide range of tones 
without
> > cranking the contrast filter setting way up to the top and the 
image
> > looked terrible.
> > 
> > So, I abandoned (at his suggestion) the color picking step and 
just
> > let the printer driver use all of its inks to make a full Black 
and
> > white negative image on the negative substrate. This way there 
was a
> > lot more ink on the substrate and it worked beautifully.
> > 
> > Don't hesitate to ask more questions...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
the membership
> > without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from the
> > membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner and
> > Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> > FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> > USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" 
AND "MODERATORS" OF
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
THE DIGITAL BW,
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION 
OF YOUR
> > TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
PARTY ON THE
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER 
RELATING TO THE

> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >