Digital BW, The Print

Is anyone using QTR with the 7600? 

 

How about with the 7600 loaded with UT7?

 

I just tried QTR with the existing UC curves to see if the dmax was any
better than with the Epson driver.  With MIS Eboni installed, I'm getting no
better dmax from QTR.  QTR is obviously pouring on more ink, but it does not
seem to help.  (Increasing the ink limit in the Epson driver also does not
help.)

 

Any suggestions for getting a better dmax from the 7600 would be most
welcomed.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul Roark wrote:

>Is anyone using QTR with the 7600? 
>
> 
>
>How about with the 7600 loaded with UT7?
>
> 
>
>I just tried QTR with the existing UC curves to see if the dmax was any
>better than with the Epson driver.  With MIS Eboni installed, I'm getting no
>better dmax from QTR.  QTR is obviously pouring on more ink, but it does not
>seem to help.  (Increasing the ink limit in the Epson driver also does not
>help.)
>
> 
>
>Any suggestions for getting a better dmax from the 7600 would be most
>welcomed.
>
> 
>
>Paul
>
>www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  
>  
>
Paul,

What is the Dmax you get with both drivers ?  Is there a Dmax difference 
between the different dpi resolutions and bidirectional versus 
unidirectional ? The effect of drying time between strokes.
With Eboni and a 9000 I can't get higher than 1.7.  Boosting the black 
with the next grey may help or not, I use it to compensate the 
irregularity of the black head but I probably loose some density by it. 
In general it is more the ink that is at its max than anything else. 
Reflection of the ink surface limits the Dmax, how much ink you pour on 
doesn't matter.  I guess the ink limit you can use is at 80-85% while I 
shut it off at 60%. The total ink will be similar but the 9000 hasn't 
the more gradual ink squirting of the newer models. I have taken 60% as 
it is a bit higher than my Spectrometer reads the maximum because the 
linearising seems to take away a bit of the ink again.

Ernst

Ernst,

> What is the Dmax you get with both drivers ?


On EEM with Eboni installed the dmax with the Epson driver is usually about
1.60 - 1.61.  IJC produced the same initially with one of their pre-made
curves.  QTR hit 1.62.  The Epson driver set to Premium Glossy paper (PK
chip on Eboni cart) with 2880 and High Speed UN-checked hit 1.63.  With IJC
and some dark cool ink added to the Eboni I've seen 1.66 in some tests, but
I have not been able to replicate that in a curves set yet.  On the 7500
with this batch of paper 1.67 is typical (and a whole lot easier to achieve
-- I'm seriously thinking of dumping the 7600).  (These are all initial
readings that typically will increase by 0.01 overnight.)

> With Eboni and a 9000 I can't get higher than 1.7.

I should be so lucky.

With UC ink in the 7600 I could do a little better than I'm not doing with
it by having the dark cyan supplementing the UC MK.

> In general it is more the ink that is at its max than anything else.
> Reflection of the ink surface limits the Dmax, how much ink you pour on
> doesn't matter.

Yes, clearly just pouring on more ink is not the answer.

The dither pattern, speed, and other factors seem to be working here.  The
4000 appears to be even worse.  It'll be interesting to see if the newer
4800, etc. have cured the problem.  The R1800 is capable of very good dmax
from what I've seen.  I'll bet they are using some cyan and/or blue to do
it.  That might account for there not being a "BO" mode on those printers.

With the 2200, the best dmax I've been able to achieve is by having a second
Eboni in the printer and using a rip.  However, at this point the rips still
have too many problems for me to be enthusiastic about having an inkset that
can only be run by them.  On the other hand, maybe if I used a rip I could
just forward all the e-mail I'd get about printing problems to those who
wrote the code! ;-) 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

On my 4000, I can hit 1.7 or better with EEM using IJC or QTR.  I 
know, it's not a 7600, but they seem to have the same Dmax issues, at 
least with Epson's matte paper settings in their driver. IJC 
previously had narrow ink limits on the 4000, but Joe opened them up 
and it is easy to hit these numbers now.  I typically reach the black 
ink limit at about 50-55% on my 4000 now.  This was with the UC 
inkset, but I have gotten similar Dmax numbers with UT7 inks on my 
2200.  

Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> 
> Ernst,
> 
> > What is the Dmax you get with both drivers ?
> 
> 
> On EEM with Eboni installed the dmax with the Epson driver is 
usually about
> 1.60 - 1.61.  IJC produced the same initially with one of their pre-
made
> curves.  QTR hit 1.62.  The Epson driver set to Premium Glossy 
paper (PK
> chip on Eboni cart) with 2880 and High Speed UN-checked hit 1.63.  
With IJC
> and some dark cool ink added to the Eboni I've seen 1.66 in some 
tests, but
> I have not been able to replicate that in a curves set yet.  On the 
7500
> with this batch of paper 1.67 is typical (and a whole lot easier to 
achieve
> -- I'm seriously thinking of dumping the 7600).  (These are all 
initial
> readings that typically will increase by 0.01 overnight.)
> 
> > With Eboni and a 9000 I can't get higher than 1.7.
> 
> I should be so lucky.
> 
> With UC ink in the 7600 I could do a little better than I'm not 
doing with
> it by having the dark cyan supplementing the UC MK.
> 
> > In general it is more the ink that is at its max than anything 
else.
> > Reflection of the ink surface limits the Dmax, how much ink you 
pour on
> > doesn't matter.
> 
> Yes, clearly just pouring on more ink is not the answer.
> 
> The dither pattern, speed, and other factors seem to be working 
here.  The
> 4000 appears to be even worse.  It'll be interesting to see if the 
newer
> 4800, etc. have cured the problem.  The R1800 is capable of very 
good dmax
> from what I've seen.  I'll bet they are using some cyan and/or blue 
to do
> it.  That might account for there not being a "BO" mode on those 
printers.
> 
> With the 2200, the best dmax I've been able to achieve is by having 
a second
> Eboni in the printer and using a rip.  However, at this point the 
rips still
> have too many problems for me to be enthusiastic about having an 
inkset that
> can only be run by them.  On the other hand, maybe if I used a rip 
I could
> just forward all the e-mail I'd get about printing problems to 
those who

> wrote the code! ;-) 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,
On my 7600 on EEM using eboni in the LK slot, my readings with an eye-one are all 
1.63-1.66. That's with about .04 to .05  on the paper (not sure if you are subtracting that 
off). Using the boost yielded slightly higher values, but I had problems with linearization of 
95% up. On HPR the numbers are 1.73 - 1.74.

These are using 1440, which uses the (3) variable drop sizes. You can configure QTR to 
use only 2 or even 1 drop size. Perhaps the 7500 wins on larger dot sizes? Although one 
would expect the larger dots to be used at the high end. However, I am not sure how the 
ink  lmits/dot sizes interact. Perhaps with a 55-60% ink limit the largest dots are not being 
used. Maybe Roy knows.

Costa


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:

> 
> Ernst,
> 
> > What is the Dmax you get with both drivers ?
> 
> 
> On EEM with Eboni installed the dmax with the Epson driver is usually about
> 1.60 - 1.61.  IJC produced the same initially with one of their pre-made
> curves.  QTR hit 1.62.  The Epson driver set to Premium Glossy paper (PK
> chip on Eboni cart) with 2880 and High Speed UN-checked hit 1.63.  With IJC
> and some dark cool ink added to the Eboni I've seen 1.66 in some tests, but
> I have not been able to replicate that in a curves set yet.  On the 7500
> with this batch of paper 1.67 is typical (and a whole lot easier to achieve
> -- I'm seriously thinking of dumping the 7600).  (These are all initial
> readings that typically will increase by 0.01 overnight.)
>

On my 4000 printing on Hahnemuehle Photo Rag I get
Dmax of:

1.54 - 1.6 using Studio Print 11 and either PiezoTone
Portfoilo Black or Eboni

1.6 using the current XP version of IJC and either
Portfolio Black or Eboni

1.73 using the Epson driver photo paper setting and
Eboni

1.59 Using the Epson driver matte paper setting and
Portfolio Black

This 4000 has The PiezoTones hand loaded into carts on
the left side, and MIS FSN on the right side.

My other 4000 has Ultrachrome ink. Dmax is 1.6 with
Studio Print 11 and Ultrachrome matte black (also on
HPR).

Lou Dina reports a Dmax of 1.7 on EEM and Ultrachrome
matte black with the new (as yet not released) XP
version of IJC.

I know 1.73 is possible with HPR and Eboni on the 4000
because I can get it with the Epson driver.

By way of comparison, when I had my 7000, I always got
1.72 - 1.75 with SP10 and Portfolio Black.

-John


		
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John,

Thanks for posting your experiences and dmax numbers.  They sound mostly
within the range that I'd expect.  (The 7600 may not have a "photo paper"
setting that did so well on your 4000.  Is that the name in the Media Type
list?)

I have finished my first UT7 Neutral curve for IJC and the 7600.  (I'll be
making my curves available, as usual.)  It's getting 1.65, which is the best
I've consistently seen on the 7600 with this batch of EEM.  There are other
and better EEM batches out there.  This one hits 1.67 on the 7500.


So far, I think the IJC image is, overall, the best I've seen.  The Epson
driver has a dmax of close, at 1.63, but that's at 2880, where it also has a
vertical rippling type of banding.  (So far all the hardware and driver
adjustments have not phased it.)  The Epson driver at 1440 is fine at 16
bits.  (I can see a highlight stepping difference.)  At this depth, my RGB
files start to get more cumbersome, so the IJC 16 bit grayscale printing
seems to be one source of its advantages.

If I'm going to go with a rip, I may put a second Eboni (or other ink) in
the LK spot.  I think LK is just wasted for dedicated B&W printers.  The
dual Eboni setup in the 2200 achieved the best dmax.  Two jets seem to do a
better job than just one.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> On my 4000 printing on Hahnemuehle Photo Rag I get
> Dmax of:
> 
> 1.54 - 1.6 using Studio Print 11 and either PiezoTone
> Portfoilo Black or Eboni
> 
> 1.6 using the current XP version of IJC and either
> Portfolio Black or Eboni
> 
> 1.73 using the Epson driver photo paper setting and
> Eboni
> 
> 1.59 Using the Epson driver matte paper setting and
> Portfolio Black
> 
> This 4000 has The PiezoTones hand loaded into carts on
> the left side, and MIS FSN on the right side.
> 
> My other 4000 has Ultrachrome ink. Dmax is 1.6 with
> Studio Print 11 and Ultrachrome matte black (also on
> HPR).
> 
> Lou Dina reports a Dmax of 1.7 on EEM and Ultrachrome
> matte black with the new (as yet not released) XP
> version of IJC.
> 
> I know 1.73 is possible with HPR and Eboni on the 4000
> because I can get it with the Epson driver.
> 
> By way of comparison, when I had my 7000, I always got
> 1.72 - 1.75 with SP10 and Portfolio Black.
> 
> -John
> 
> 
> 
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Paul-
--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> John,
> 
> Thanks for posting your experiences and dmax
> numbers.  They sound mostly
> within the range that I'd expect.  (The 7600 may not
> have a "photo paper"
> setting that did so well on your 4000.  Is that the
> name in the Media Type
> list?)
I picked a photo paper in the Media Type list (like
Lustre), thus forcing the printer to use the ink in
the Photo Black position (which was Eboni) and
probably increasing the ink limit for that ink over
the lower ink limit for the ink in the Matte Black
position (which was Portfolio Black).
-John


		
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John,

> I picked a photo paper in the Media Type list (like
> Lustre), thus forcing the printer to use the ink in
> the Photo Black position (which was Eboni) and
> probably increasing the ink limit for that ink over
> the lower ink limit for the ink in the Matte Black
> position (which was Portfolio Black).

OK, so you found the same thing I did with the 7600 -- the PK paper list's
glossy papers give a better dmax with MK.  I put a PK chip on the Eboni cart
and found "Premium Glossy Photo Paper" gave me the best dmax even with EEM.

I'm going to try a second Eboni in the LK next. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com