Digital BW, The Print

Has anyone tried to print with QTR on the R800?  Any impressions thus 
far?

Steve

Hi Steve, and Roy,

I meant to write some feedback on the QTR/R800/R1800 solution but got
sidetracked by something else at the moment. Here are some
observations based on the available profiles for EEM and my R1800.

1. Printing at 1440 super mode is prone to banding. This is typically
the case with the R1800. It appears there is not enough interweaving
for the 1.5 pl droplets in the Epson driver or hardware. Toned prints,
sepia and cool, are less vulnerable to banding.

2. The supplied profiles were probably made using 1440 dpi mode so
when printing in 2880 dpi results in heavy ink laydown. Without the
ability to create profiles for the R1800 I tried to tweak the image
itself and got a very nice prints using black-only, sepia, and cool
profiles.

3. Printing at 2880 yields much higher dmax.

4. Printing in 2880 dpi mode is very slow. QTR pegs the CPU at 100%
the whole time. But ideally for this printer the printing dpi should
be something similar to the Epson driver's Photo RPM mode which is
probably 5760 dpi. Hopefully QTR will support this mode some day with
reasonably fast printing.

5. The black-only prints at any dpi on the R1800 is very smooth. The
dots are almost invisible. Toned prints look even smoother and very
pleasing.

Sofar my wishlist for the R1800 is 1) having an R1800 as a printing
model (I'm using R800 for the time being), faster printing speed on
2880 (maybe not printing speed but more optimized algorithm in QTR?),
availability of 5760 dpi mode, and of course profiling capability.

Overall with the help of QTR the R1800 can really be an all-in-one
printer for both color and b/w works and of course glossy and matte.

--nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Kobrin"
<kobrins@w...> wrote:
> Has anyone tried to print with QTR on the R800?  Any impressions
thus 

> far?
> 
> Steve

Thanks Nick, sounds like it is worth a try.

Steve

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H. Nugent" 
<nghin@p...> wrote:
> Hi Steve, and Roy,
> 
> I meant to write some feedback on the QTR/R800/R1800 solution but 
got
> sidetracked by something else at the moment. Here are some
> observations based on the available profiles for EEM and my R1800.
> 
> 1. Printing at 1440 super mode is prone to banding. This is 
typically
> the case with the R1800. It appears there is not enough interweaving
> for the 1.5 pl droplets in the Epson driver or hardware. Toned 
prints,
> sepia and cool, are less vulnerable to banding.
> 
> 2. The supplied profiles were probably made using 1440 dpi mode so
> when printing in 2880 dpi results in heavy ink laydown. Without the
> ability to create profiles for the R1800 I tried to tweak the image
> itself and got a very nice prints using black-only, sepia, and cool
> profiles.
> 
> 3. Printing at 2880 yields much higher dmax.
> 
> 4. Printing in 2880 dpi mode is very slow. QTR pegs the CPU at 100%
> the whole time. But ideally for this printer the printing dpi should
> be something similar to the Epson driver's Photo RPM mode which is
> probably 5760 dpi. Hopefully QTR will support this mode some day 
with
> reasonably fast printing.
> 
> 5. The black-only prints at any dpi on the R1800 is very smooth. The
> dots are almost invisible. Toned prints look even smoother and very
> pleasing.
> 
> Sofar my wishlist for the R1800 is 1) having an R1800 as a printing
> model (I'm using R800 for the time being), faster printing speed on
> 2880 (maybe not printing speed but more optimized algorithm in 
QTR?),
> availability of 5760 dpi mode, and of course profiling capability.
> 
> Overall with the help of QTR the R1800 can really be an all-in-one
> printer for both color and b/w works and of course glossy and matte.
> 
> --nick
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen 
Kobrin"

> <kobrins@w...> wrote:
> > Has anyone tried to print with QTR on the R800?  Any impressions
> thus 
> > far?
> > 
> > Steve

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the feedback.  
Comments below.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H. Nugent" 
<nghin@p...> wrote:
> Hi Steve, and Roy,
> 
> I meant to write some feedback on the QTR/R800/R1800 solution but got
> sidetracked by something else at the moment. Here are some
> observations based on the available profiles for EEM and my R1800.
> 
> 1. Printing at 1440 super mode is prone to banding. This is typically
> the case with the R1800. It appears there is not enough interweaving
> for the 1.5 pl droplets in the Epson driver or hardware. Toned prints,
> sepia and cool, are less vulnerable to banding.

The profiles were made for 1440x1440 and you need to use this res to get
the 1.5pl drops. 1440super uses more like 3pl drops.  But banding is kind
of a problem there, too.  Even with the smallest drops for the most part there's
only one ink being used so its a lot like black-only.  Maybe that's why Epson 
didn't provide a BO mode?  I'm thinking you just need more ink on the paper
so that it bleeds out a little.

> 
> 2. The supplied profiles were probably made using 1440 dpi mode so
> when printing in 2880 dpi results in heavy ink laydown. Without the
> ability to create profiles for the R1800 I tried to tweak the image
> itself and got a very nice prints using black-only, sepia, and cool
> profiles.
> 
> 3. Printing at 2880 yields much higher dmax.

You can probably try out 2880 by just setting the Ink Limit Adj to -50%.
But it doesn't give more dots vertically.

> 
> 4. Printing in 2880 dpi mode is very slow. QTR pegs the CPU at 100%
> the whole time. But ideally for this printer the printing dpi should
> be something similar to the Epson driver's Photo RPM mode which is
> probably 5760 dpi. Hopefully QTR will support this mode some day with
> reasonably fast printing.

Speed is a problem with the higher dpi's.  There are a few things that I've
looked at to help at least the CPU side of the problem.

> 
> 5. The black-only prints at any dpi on the R1800 is very smooth. The
> dots are almost invisible. Toned prints look even smoother and very
> pleasing.

Is that using the Epson driver?  I think it uses more inks which helps by more
volume of ink but the trouble is is that they are color inks.

> 
> Sofar my wishlist for the R1800 is 1) having an R1800 as a printing
> model (I'm using R800 for the time being), faster printing speed on
> 2880 (maybe not printing speed but more optimized algorithm in QTR?),
> availability of 5760 dpi mode, and of course profiling capability.

All in the works (except the 5760dpi, I think that's mostly hype).

> 
> Overall with the help of QTR the R1800 can really be an all-in-one
> printer for both color and b/w works and of course glossy and matte.

Maybe.

Thanks,
Roy

> 
> --nick
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Kobrin"
> <kobrins@w...> wrote:
> > Has anyone tried to print with QTR on the R800?  Any impressions
> thus 
> > far?
> > 
> > Steve

Hi Roy,

It's good to know you're working on the R printers. 
Please see my comments below.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington"
<roy@h...> wrote:
> ...
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H.
Nugent" 
> <nghin@p...> wrote:
> > ...

> The profiles were made for 1440x1440 and you need to
> use this res to get the 1.5pl drops. 1440super uses
> more like 3pl drops.

I'm not sure I understand this. The help file says
1440super is "Eight pass printing at 1440 dpi
(reduces the likelihood of banding)". So you use
larger droplets to achieve the samething?

> > 5. The black-only prints at any dpi on the R1800 is
> > very smooth. The dots are almost invisible. Toned
> > prints look even smoother and very pleasing.
> 
> Is that using the Epson driver?  I think it uses more
> inks which helps by more volume of ink but the
> trouble is is that they are color inks.

I'm talking about prints I made using the EEM cool
and sepia profiles in QRT.

> >Sofar my wishlist for the R1800 is ...
> 
> >All in the works (except the 5760dpi, I think that's
> >mostly hype).

Great. I wonder what Photo RPM mode is in the Epson
driver. It doesn't even give me any resolution
selection: Photo, Best Photo, Photo RPM, etc... Maybe
Photo RPM is not even 5760 like you said. Anyway,
2880 in QTR is already very good, just needs to be
a little faster, or maybe I need a machine with more
horse power.

> > Overall with the help of QTR the R1800 can really be
> > an all-in-one printer for both color and b/w works
> > and of course glossy and matte.
> 
> Maybe.

Well once the R1800 printer is fully supported by QTR
I really do think I can make all my prints with it.
Currently the 1160 is still my best printer for making
b/w prints.

--nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H. Nugent" <nghin@p...> 
wrote:
> Hi Roy,
> 
> It's good to know you're working on the R printers. 
> Please see my comments below.
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington"
> <roy@h...> wrote:
> > ...
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Nick H.
> Nugent" 
> > <nghin@p...> wrote:
> > > ...
> 
> > The profiles were made for 1440x1440 and you need to
> > use this res to get the 1.5pl drops. 1440super uses
> > more like 3pl drops.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand this. The help file says
> 1440super is "Eight pass printing at 1440 dpi
> (reduces the likelihood of banding)". So you use
> larger droplets to achieve the samething?

Hi Nick,

The idea is that at 1440x1440 you can use 3 dotsizes approx:  (1.5, 3.5, 8) pl.
But at 1440x720 (that's the 1440dpi and 1440super) if you use those small dotsizes
there's no way to get enough ink on the page for a dMax black.   So with 1440x720,
we go with dotsizes approx: (3.5, 8, 15) pl.  This gives enough ink but then it's
like the older printers such as the 2200.

It basically boils down to if you want smaller dots you have to use more of them.

> 
> > > 5. The black-only prints at any dpi on the R1800 is
> > > very smooth. The dots are almost invisible. Toned
> > > prints look even smoother and very pleasing.
> > 
> > Is that using the Epson driver?  I think it uses more
> > inks which helps by more volume of ink but the
> > trouble is is that they are color inks.
> 
> I'm talking about prints I made using the EEM cool
> and sepia profiles in QRT.

I guess I'm confused.  Does QTR and R1800 give acceptable prints or is there
banding?

> 
> > >Sofar my wishlist for the R1800 is ...
> > 
> > >All in the works (except the 5760dpi, I think that's
> > >mostly hype).
> 
> Great. I wonder what Photo RPM mode is in the Epson
> driver. It doesn't even give me any resolution
> selection: Photo, Best Photo, Photo RPM, etc... Maybe
> Photo RPM is not even 5760 like you said. Anyway,
> 2880 in QTR is already very good, just needs to be
> a little faster, or maybe I need a machine with more
> horse power.

As far as I can tell the 5760 is just doing more passes. But the dotsize doesn't get
any smaller than what's used in 1440x1440.  So you'ret going to be putting out
about the same number dots.  Positioning of the dots my vary but I can't imagine
(1/5760) = 0.0002 inch being that much of a difference.

Roy

> 
> > > Overall with the help of QTR the R1800 can really be
> > > an all-in-one printer for both color and b/w works
> > > and of course glossy and matte.
> > 
> > Maybe.
> 
> Well once the R1800 printer is fully supported by QTR
> I really do think I can make all my prints with it.
> Currently the 1160 is still my best printer for making
> b/w prints.
> 
> --nick