Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

EEM on Wilhelm site

EEM on Wilhelm site

2005-08-02 by Ted Shaw

Hi Woody - 

I can't find this on their web-site - could you be a little more specific about the location? Maybe I'm blind.

Thanks,

Ted
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Elwood Spedden 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 1:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: For Clayton, Paul, Gary and others . . . on the 2400


  You know, it is kind of interesting to me that, after
  much discussion to the contrary, it turns out that
  Epson EEM actually has great archival properties. (See
  the Wilhelm Research Website for details).

  If the data at that website is correct (and why not to
  believe since this seems to be the final voice on such
  matters) then all of the other wonderful qualities of
  EEM are truly available for us to sell our fine art
  prints, eg brightness, luminance etc. And finally,
  given the price of EEM, this has to be one of the
  truly great papers out there.

  I have spent inordinate time (as have most of you
  judging from the threads in this forum) trying to find
  a paper that meets EEM's characteristics and with
  superior archival qualities. Are we overlooking the
  obvious.........that EEM is our saviour all along?

  What am I missing?

  woody spedden

  --- wwodets <odets@...> wrote:


  ---------------------------------
  Scott-

  I'll try some--next time my MK gets low (which will
  probably be in 
  about five minutes).  Seriously, I've spent $600 or so
  on ink sorting 
  out this printer.  Fortunately or unfortunately, I
  have an "art 
  photo" store right across the street from my house and
  they handle 
  all the Epson materials (plus Hannemuhle, Legion,
  etc.).  I don't 
  know that my observations will be anything but a
  personal take 
  though.  

  While I agree with your feelings on the RC issue,
  people are still 
  influenced by the "hand" of the paper when holding an
  unframed 
  print.  I don't know how important that is or should
  be.  Some very 
  experienced BW photo collectors from Hawaii recently
  looked at some 
  of my prints and couldn't stop talking about the
  beauty of the prints 
  and the wonderful feel of the paper.  These were all
  2400 prints on 
  Velvet Fine Art and they bought several.  They were
  much less taken 
  with the gelatin prints which, by comparison, feel
  skimpy.  The VFA 
  is lush.  Like the RC issue, "100% cotton rag" is a
  problem, because 
  I think there are now a lot of cellulose papers that
  are probably 
  more stable and provide a better printing surface for
  the inks.  
  Feelings die hard, even among those who are very
  experienced and 
  knowledgable.

  I'll make a post with impressions when I've had time
  to try the 
  Premium Semigloss.

  Walt  

  > 
  > Thanks again Walt. I did NOT see any differences
  with different 
  > lighting schemes and levels. I (and many of us here)
  would be very 
  > interested in your thoughts if you tried some Epson
  Premium 
  > Semigloss and do another analysis. I find its
  surface to have a 
  very 
  > nice sheen (like ADFBG) with just the slightest of
  sparkle (not 
  > nearly as bad as the Luster)and only seen at very
  high angle 
  viewing.
  > 
  > I am beginning to think that our natural aversion to
  the idea of an 
  > RC type paper is a little silly. As you note, in the
  darkroom RC 
  was 
  > really not a very high quality product, but these
  RC-ish papers for 
  > inkjet printing seem fine to me, if I can just throw
  away an old 
  > prejudice and wow, do I get some beautiful deep
  blacks.
  > 
  > Interested in trying some EPSG for us????
  > 
  > Scott




  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
  and other resources as they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
  digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your
  Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
  earlier messages to keep them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal
  attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or
  argumentative users may be removed from the membership
  without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group
  topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently
  make off-topic posts may be removed from the
  membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the
  group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the
  actions and decisions of the group Owner and
  Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in
  the Files section:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
  DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY
  UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS"
  OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
  LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
  SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING
  BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
  GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN
  IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE
  PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
  OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
  INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
  GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
  YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
  CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
  PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
  TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.


        

        SPONSORED LINKS  
                                                 
  Digital photography technique                         
            Digital photography                         
            Digital photography software                
                                                
  Photography school                                   
  Professional digital photography                      
               Stock photography                        
                              
      
  ---------------------------------
    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

    
      Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on
  the web.
     
      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

  DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
     
      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
  Terms of Service.

    
  ---------------------------------





  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




  SPONSORED LINKS Digital photography technique  Digital photography  Digital photography software  
        Photography school  Professional digital photography  Stock photography  


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

    a..  Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
      
    b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
     DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      
    c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

EEM on Wilhelm site

2005-08-02 by Ted Shaw

Opps - sorry Woody - just found it under the R2400...

Thanks,

Ted

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] EEM on Wilhelm site

2005-08-02 by Elwood Spedden

Ted

Go to www.wilhelm-research.com. On the opening page
you will see icons of dozens of articles published by
Wilhelm and others. Scroll down to either the 4000
article or the 9600 article on permanence ratings for
various papers.

woody

--- Ted Shaw <tedshaw@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
Hi Woody - 

I can't find this on their web-site - could you be a
little more specific about the location? Maybe I'm
blind.

Thanks,

Ted
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Elwood Spedden 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 1:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: For Clayton, Paul,
Gary and others . . . on the 2400


  You know, it is kind of interesting to me that,
after
  much discussion to the contrary, it turns out that
  Epson EEM actually has great archival properties.
(See
  the Wilhelm Research Website for details).

  If the data at that website is correct (and why not
to
  believe since this seems to be the final voice on
such
  matters) then all of the other wonderful qualities
of
  EEM are truly available for us to sell our fine art
  prints, eg brightness, luminance etc. And finally,
  given the price of EEM, this has to be one of the
  truly great papers out there.

  I have spent inordinate time (as have most of you
  judging from the threads in this forum) trying to
find
  a paper that meets EEM's characteristics and with
  superior archival qualities. Are we overlooking the
  obvious.........that EEM is our saviour all along?

  What am I missing?

  woody spedden

  --- wwodets <odets@...> wrote:


  ---------------------------------
  Scott-

  I'll try some--next time my MK gets low (which will
  probably be in 
  about five minutes).  Seriously, I've spent $600 or
so
  on ink sorting 
  out this printer.  Fortunately or unfortunately, I
  have an "art 
  photo" store right across the street from my house
and
  they handle 
  all the Epson materials (plus Hannemuhle, Legion,
  etc.).  I don't 
  know that my observations will be anything but a
  personal take 
  though.  

  While I agree with your feelings on the RC issue,
  people are still 
  influenced by the "hand" of the paper when holding
an
  unframed 
  print.  I don't know how important that is or should
  be.  Some very 
  experienced BW photo collectors from Hawaii recently
  looked at some 
  of my prints and couldn't stop talking about the
  beauty of the prints 
  and the wonderful feel of the paper.  These were all
  2400 prints on 
  Velvet Fine Art and they bought several.  They were
  much less taken 
  with the gelatin prints which, by comparison, feel
  skimpy.  The VFA 
  is lush.  Like the RC issue, "100% cotton rag" is a
  problem, because 
  I think there are now a lot of cellulose papers that
  are probably 
  more stable and provide a better printing surface
for
  the inks.  
  Feelings die hard, even among those who are very
  experienced and 
  knowledgable.

  I'll make a post with impressions when I've had time
  to try the 
  Premium Semigloss.

  Walt  

  > 
  > Thanks again Walt. I did NOT see any differences
  with different 
  > lighting schemes and levels. I (and many of us
here)
  would be very 
  > interested in your thoughts if you tried some
Epson
  Premium 
  > Semigloss and do another analysis. I find its
  surface to have a 
  very 
  > nice sheen (like ADFBG) with just the slightest of
  sparkle (not 
  > nearly as bad as the Luster)and only seen at very
  high angle 
  viewing.
  > 
  > I am beginning to think that our natural aversion
to
  the idea of an 
  > RC type paper is a little silly. As you note, in
the
  darkroom RC 
  was 
  > really not a very high quality product, but these
  RC-ish papers for 
  > inkjet printing seem fine to me, if I can just
throw
  away an old 
  > prejudice and wow, do I get some beautiful deep
  blacks.
  > 
  > Interested in trying some EPSG for us????
  > 
  > Scott




  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
  and other resources as they are often being updated.

 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
  digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your
  Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
  earlier messages to keep them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal
  attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or
  argumentative users may be removed from the
membership
  without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group
  topic of digital B&W printing. Users who
persistently
  make off-topic posts may be removed from the
  membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the
  group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the
  actions and decisions of the group Owner and
  Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines"
in
  the Files section:
 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
  DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY
  UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS"
  OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
  LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
  SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES,
INCLUDING
  BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
  GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN
  IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE
  PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY
  OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
  INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
  GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
  YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
  CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
  PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
  TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.


        

        SPONSORED LINKS  
                                                 
  Digital photography technique                       
 
            Digital photography                       
 
            Digital photography software              
 
                                                
  Photography school                                  

  Professional digital photography                    
 
               Stock photography                      
 
                              
      
  ---------------------------------
    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

    
      Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint"
on
  the web.
     
      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
to:

 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
     
      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
Yahoo!
  Terms of Service.

    
  ---------------------------------





  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
and other resources as they are often being updated.

 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your
Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
earlier messages to keep them short.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal
attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or
argumentative users may be removed from the membership
without notice.
  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group
topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently
make off-topic posts may be removed from the
membership.
  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the
group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the
actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in
the Files section:
 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY
UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS"
OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN
IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




  SPONSORED LINKS Digital photography technique 
Digital photography  Digital photography software  
        Photography school  Professional digital
photography  Stock photography  


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

    a..  Visit your group
"DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
      
    b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
to:
    
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      
    c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your
Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal
attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or
argumentative users may be removed from the membership
without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group
topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently
make off-topic posts may be removed from the
membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the
group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the
actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in
the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY
UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd
OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN
IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.


      

      SPONSORED LINKS  
                                               
Digital photography technique                         
          Digital photography                         
          Digital photography software                
                                              
Photography school                                   
Professional digital photography                      
             Stock photography                        
                            
    
---------------------------------
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

  
    Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on
the web.
   
    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.

  
---------------------------------

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.