Digital BW, The Print

Mark,

You wrote:

>at least one person has said that for a 1160 without a Cone driver
>that you should use MIS original instead of FS inkset, any
>concurrence?

I think both the FS and original MIS quads need some kind of workflow to get
a good, even grayscale ramp.  If they were just printed with the Epson
driver and no adjustment curves or tailored workflow, I would guess that the
original MIS would look better than the FS inks.

>  Also, I have heard that the MIS original will not
>produce a deep black on Somerset Velvet, any work around or
>concurrence on this?  Also, how does Epson Archival Matte compare?

Somerset Velvet is an uncoated paper that produces weak blacks with all inks
relative to the modern coated papers. Epson Archival Matte is an excellent
example of a modern coated paper (specifically made for pigments), and it
has a much better black and overall image, in my opinion.

If you are just starting out, I'd recommend you try various inks and
workflows.  There are quite a few free workflows out there.  Check out the
MIS website for the various ones available from that outfit.

In trying various inks, do so from cartridges before you put anything in a
continuous inking system.  The MIS, Piezo and Epson inks are compatible
enough that sampling them does not risk clogs.  Lyson inks have a different
pH, I'm told, and flushing fluid needs to be used before then are sampled.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks Paul,

Instead of buying a couple of different inks I'd rather start out 
making a good choice and spend enough time with it to really know 
what I can do with it.  It seems that this process could easily take 
more than one set of carts so it just makes sense to just jump right 
in buy the CFS (the MIS units are really quite cheap considering).  I 
guess I want someone to stick their neck out and say, "hey, if you 
use this ink set and this workflow you are going to get great 
prints!"  From the MIS site there is one workflow for the 1160 and 
Original and one for FS, can anyone say give a personal opinion which 
is *better*?  ...I'm looking for opinions and reasons...

How about qualitative statements regarding the difference in look 
between the Original and FS etc.?  Isn't the original warmer than the 
FS?

If I find that the free workflows don't work for me I don't have 
anything against following any of the tutorials out there to develop 
my own, anyone have experience doing this and can suggest the best 
approach?

Mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
[etc...]
> If you are just starting out, I'd recommend you try various inks and
> workflows.  There are quite a few free workflows out there.  Check 
out the
> MIS website for the various ones available from that outfit.
> 
> In trying various inks, do so from cartridges before you put 
anything in a
> continuous inking system.  The MIS, Piezo and Epson inks are 
compatible
> enough that sampling them does not risk clogs.  Lyson inks have a 
different
> pH, I'm told, and flushing fluid needs to be used before then are 
sampled.

> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

If you use the Piezo driver and inks you are going to get great prints. Use
the FS inks with the Piezo driver if cost is an issue. No workflow, just
print...

-Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: markhahn2000 [mailto:markhahn2000@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 1:56 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS original (more newbie q's)

...I guess I want someone to stick their neck out and say, "hey, if you use
this ink set and this workflow you are going to get great prints!"...

Mark

I hate to say it but I prefer the lookof FS - everyone who has seen side by
side comparisons of my pre and post piezo prints agree.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason DeFontes" <jason@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 8:32 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] MIS original (more newbie q's)


> If you use the Piezo driver and inks you are going to get great prints.
Use
> the FS inks with the Piezo driver if cost is an issue. No workflow, just
> print...
>
> -Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: markhahn2000 [mailto:markhahn2000@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 1:56 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS original (more newbie q's)
>
> ...I guess I want someone to stick their neck out and say, "hey, if you
use
> this ink set and this workflow you are going to get great prints!"...
>
> Mark
>
>
>
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Mark,

I think you should see samples of the various prints before diving in.  I
started with Piezo and tried MIS original quads, but they  were too warm to
hang next to my silver prints.  If you like the warm color, then the Piezo
driver with Piezo or FS inks sound like a good combination.  If you want
neutral prints or control over the tone of your prints, then the MIS VM
approach is best.

So, get the samples from the sellers and go from there.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul, Jason and Julian,

Thanks.

Cost is an issue to me... that is why I would like to try out the 
$150 MIS CFS first with a proven workflow instead of just sending 
Cone $600 for their driver and CIS.  Is it really going to take the 
Cone driver to get great prints?  If this is the case I sould 
probably start out with MIS FS and then get the Cone driver... the 
problem is that Cone will not just sell the driver.  If you already 
have a CFS on you printer Cone still makes you purchase a kit 
complete with carts that you don't need, they won't even give you 
store credit for them (which I think is a little hard-nosed).

mark

...
> I hate to say it but I prefer the lookof FS - everyone who has seen 
side by
> side comparisons of my pre and post piezo prints agree.
...
> > If you use the Piezo driver and inks you are going to get great 
prints.
> Use
> > the FS inks with the Piezo driver if cost is an issue. No 
workflow, just
> > print...
...
etc.