Digital BW, The Print

For those who've experienced shiny flecks in their Entrada prints:

The good news is that the Moabpaper.com website announces a "limited product recall" 
and replacement of paper in designated sizes & batches that produced prints with both (a) 
loss of density & (b) what Moab calls "crystallization of the inks" - the infamous shiny 
flecks.  

The bad news is that the recall doesn't go far enough, because Entrada in sizes & batches 
other than those listed produced (b) flecks or crystallization without (a) loss of density.  In 
particular, ink crystallization occurred with Entrada Natural in 300g weight in sizes smaller 
than 24x36 & 24x40, which are the only sizes for Entrada Natural 300g on the recall list.    

Anyhow those with the designated sizes & batches in stock can send in a downloadable 
form for replacement.  

And Moab claims to have better testing procedures in place now.   I hope so - I'd like to be 
able to use Entrada Natural again!  I just printed a portfolio of 20 BW images on 
Ultrasmooth, because my test prints on Entrada Natural showed flecking problems, & I 
certainly noticed the difference in price.

I am currently using Entrada Natural 300 13x19 for a
project and I have had no issues with dust, flaking or
shiny spots. 

Pretty amazing stuff when it works right.

Guy

--- Kirk Thompson <thompsonkirk@...> wrote:

> For those who've experienced shiny flecks in their
> Entrada prints:
> 
> The good news is that the Moabpaper.com website
> announces a "limited product recall" 
> and replacement of paper in designated sizes &
> batches that produced prints with both (a) 
> loss of density & (b) what Moab calls
> "crystallization of the inks" - the infamous shiny 
> flecks.  
> 
> The bad news is that the recall doesn't go far
> enough, because Entrada in sizes & batches 
> other than those listed produced (b) flecks or
> crystallization without (a) loss of density.  In 
> particular, ink crystallization occurred with
> Entrada Natural in 300g weight in sizes smaller 
> than 24x36 & 24x40, which are the only sizes for
> Entrada Natural 300g on the recall list.    
> 
> Anyhow those with the designated sizes & batches in
> stock can send in a downloadable 
> form for replacement.  
> 
> And Moab claims to have better testing procedures in
> place now.   I hope so - I'd like to be 
> able to use Entrada Natural again!  I just printed a
> portfolio of 20 BW images on 
> Ultrasmooth, because my test prints on Entrada
> Natural showed flecking problems, & I 
> certainly noticed the difference in price.  
> 
> 
> 
> 


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I have not experienced this shiny spot problem, but I
sure have noticed substantial flaking, one of which
happened on a 24X36 job print.........Ouch!

The next print I made (all the while holding my
breath) followed vigourous dusting with a brush and
then wiping down the paper with a dust free towel.

No problems

Is this the NORM? I can live with it if so, but what
in the world would you do with a roll? This flaking
can be a serious cost issue so for me, I will not use
rolls of paper that has serious flaking issues. This
can be a serious issue in that HPR does not come in
large (i.e. 24 X 36") sheets.

What are you guys experiencing with Entrada generally?

I have also tried Cranes Museo recently and saw no
signs of flaking and the paper seems really nice but I
haven't found a lot of info on it in the forum.
Comments?

Thanks
Woody Spedden

--- guy washburn <guido02474@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
I am currently using Entrada Natural 300 13x19 for a
project and I have had no issues with dust, flaking or
shiny spots. 

Pretty amazing stuff when it works right.

Guy

--- Kirk Thompson <thompsonkirk@...> wrote:

> For those who've experienced shiny flecks in their
> Entrada prints:
> 
> The good news is that the Moabpaper.com website
> announces a "limited product recall" 
> and replacement of paper in designated sizes &
> batches that produced prints with both (a) 
> loss of density & (b) what Moab calls
> "crystallization of the inks" - the infamous shiny 
> flecks.  
> 
> The bad news is that the recall doesn't go far
> enough, because Entrada in sizes & batches 
> other than those listed produced (b) flecks or
> crystallization without (a) loss of density.  In 
> particular, ink crystallization occurred with
> Entrada Natural in 300g weight in sizes smaller 
> than 24x36 & 24x40, which are the only sizes for
> Entrada Natural 300g on the recall list.    
> 
> Anyhow those with the designated sizes & batches in
> stock can send in a downloadable 
> form for replacement.  
> 
> And Moab claims to have better testing procedures in
> place now.   I hope so - I'd like to be 
> able to use Entrada Natural again!  I just printed a
> portfolio of 20 BW images on 
> Ultrasmooth, because my test prints on Entrada
> Natural showed flecking problems, & I 
> certainly noticed the difference in price.  
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY
UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd
OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN
IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.


      

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---------------------------------

Just use a brush before printing on Entrada, and you are good to go. I had
heard that some of the 'flaking' issues were related to cuttings from the
edges when the sheets were cut, and somehow migrated onto the tops and
bottom of the sheets in the box. I just use a brush to move those aside
before printing.

No big deal.

Andy 

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elwood
Spedden
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 8:02 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Moab Entrada recall: Good news & bad

I have not experienced this shiny spot problem, but I sure have noticed
substantial flaking, one of which happened on a 24X36 job
print.........Ouch!

The next print I made (all the while holding my
breath) followed vigourous dusting with a brush and then wiping down the
paper with a dust free towel.

No problems

Is this the NORM? I can live with it if so, but what in the world would you
do with a roll? This flaking can be a serious cost issue so for me, I will
not use rolls of paper that has serious flaking issues. This can be a
serious issue in that HPR does not come in large (i.e. 24 X 36") sheets.

What are you guys experiencing with Entrada generally?

I have also tried Cranes Museo recently and saw no signs of flaking and the
paper seems really nice but I haven't found a lot of info on it in the
forum.
Comments?

Thanks
Woody Spedden

--- guy washburn <guido02474@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
I am currently using Entrada Natural 300 13x19 for a project and I have had
no issues with dust, flaking or shiny spots. 

Pretty amazing stuff when it works right.

Guy

--- Kirk Thompson <thompsonkirk@...> wrote:

> For those who've experienced shiny flecks in their Entrada prints:
> 
> The good news is that the Moabpaper.com website announces a "limited 
> product recall"
> and replacement of paper in designated sizes & batches that produced 
> prints with both (a) loss of density & (b) what Moab calls 
> "crystallization of the inks" - the infamous shiny flecks.
> 
> The bad news is that the recall doesn't go far enough, because Entrada 
> in sizes & batches other than those listed produced (b) flecks or 
> crystallization without (a) loss of density.  In particular, ink 
> crystallization occurred with Entrada Natural in 300g weight in sizes 
> smaller than 24x36 & 24x40, which are the only sizes for
> Entrada Natural 300g on the recall list.    
> 
> Anyhow those with the designated sizes & batches in stock can send in 
> a downloadable form for replacement.
> 
> And Moab claims to have better testing procedures in
> place now.   I hope so - I'd like to be 
> able to use Entrada Natural again!  I just printed a portfolio of 20 
> BW images on Ultrasmooth, because my test prints on Entrada Natural 
> showed flecking problems, & I certainly noticed the difference in 
> price.
> 
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around 
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Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your
Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal
attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or
argumentative users may be removed from the membership
without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group
topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently
make off-topic posts may be removed from the
membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the
group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the
actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in
the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY
UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS"
OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN
IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.


      

      SPONSORED LINKS  
                                               
Digital photography technique                         
          Digital photography                         
          Digital photography software                
                                              
Photography school                                   
Professional digital photography                      
             Stock photography                        
                            
    
---------------------------------
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

  
    Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on
the web.
   
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---------------------------------






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

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Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
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- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
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Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

> 
> Is this the NORM? I can live with it if so, but what
> in the world would you do with a roll? This flaking
> can be a serious cost issue so for me, I will not use
> rolls of paper that has serious flaking issues. This
> can be a serious issue in that HPR does not come in

Don't worry, Woody, the Entrada flaking problem seems to have come from dust when 
cutting the paper into sheets.  The residue was adhering to the coating.  Moab has mostly 
licked the problem & the rolls have not - to my knowledge - ever been flaky like the 
sheets.  Nor have I seen ink crystallization/shiny flecks on roll paper.  (Maybe some 
difference in the coating?)  

When I first had trouble with ink crystallization in Entrada Natural, I sent a sample to 
Inkjetart, where I'd bought it.  They contacted Moab, & the explanation I got (2d hand) was 
that Moab had changed the coating to solve the flaking problem, but that the flecks 
appeared in some batches of paper with the new coating.  

Anyhow wiping is a good idea for large sheets, Entrada or whatever.  I use an Ilford anti-
static cloth.

The 'dustiest' paper I've ever used is Ultrasmooth - you see white powder all over the 
orange anti-static cloth.  But it doesn't lead to flaking.  The particles are apparently so 
small that they don't cause the ink flake when it dries.

Kirk

Thanks so much for your clarification Kirk.

I love the Entrada paper so this helps restore my
confidence that I can continue to use (and afford)
this paper in my work.

Thanks for taking the time to answer
Woody

--- Kirk Thompson <thompsonkirk@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
> 
> Is this the NORM? I can live with it if so, but what
> in the world would you do with a roll? This flaking
> can be a serious cost issue so for me, I will not
use
> rolls of paper that has serious flaking issues. This
> can be a serious issue in that HPR does not come in

Don't worry, Woody, the Entrada flaking problem seems
to have come from dust when 
cutting the paper into sheets.  The residue was
adhering to the coating.  Moab has mostly 
licked the problem & the rolls have not - to my
knowledge - ever been flaky like the 
sheets.  Nor have I seen ink crystallization/shiny
flecks on roll paper.  (Maybe some 
difference in the coating?)  

When I first had trouble with ink crystallization in
Entrada Natural, I sent a sample to 
Inkjetart, where I'd bought it.  They contacted Moab,
& the explanation I got (2d hand) was 
that Moab had changed the coating to solve the flaking
problem, but that the flecks 
appeared in some batches of paper with the new
coating.  

Anyhow wiping is a good idea for large sheets, Entrada
or whatever.  I use an Ilford anti-
static cloth.

The 'dustiest' paper I've ever used is Ultrasmooth -
you see white powder all over the 
orange anti-static cloth.  But it doesn't lead to
flaking.  The particles are apparently so 
small that they don't cause the ink flake when it
dries.

Kirk  




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your
Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal
attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or
argumentative users may be removed from the membership
without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group
topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently
make off-topic posts may be removed from the
membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the
group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the
actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in
the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY
UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd
OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN
IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.


  
    
---------------------------------
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    Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on
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---------------------------------