Digital BW, The Print

Hello,

I am new to this group and through the "search" tool I specifically 
searched out Optical Brightners and their effects on images.  I am 
trying to discuss this topic further....(if anyone cares...:)

There was a link provided to The Wilhelm Research Instititute where 
one of their write-ups specifically stated, in their own words, that 
OBA's should not be used in manufacturing papers for fine art.  I 
found this to be very interesting as a loyal Hahnenuhle user...it 
brings up a few questions from observation and thought:

(1) According to Wilhelm - "color shifting" really occurs under 
different sources of light, and for this OBAs should not be used in 
manufacturing of true "fine art" papers.  This makes sense, but then 
why is everyone, including myself, seeming to use papers w/ OBA's and 
are not having all that many problems with it?  Is this just a matter 
of time?  

This leads into my next issue - 

(2) I dont want to use a yellow, or what manufacturing marketers call 
a "Natural White" paper.  Supposedly, under the right lighting, OBA's 
cannot even be seen and the paper is "natural white" anyways.  Which 
creates a problem here --  when you start with a bright white base vs. 
a natural white base, as we know, you must have a different profile.  
This makes complete sense that in the "right lighting", your image 
created on an OBA-using paper will color shift as the base color 
shifts.  Additionally, in the same situation, an image printed on OBA-
free paper will look accurate, and a OBA-using paper will not.  

I guess the bottom line is that OBA-using papers you have color-shift 
risk, and OBA free papers you do not.  

This to me is unnerving and seems to be exactly what wilhelm 
institutue argues.  It is probably the reason why Epson has chosen to 
have their flagship smooth photo paper be an OBA free paper, as 
opposed to one with OBAs which they easily could have done.  It is 
also probably why there has been so many new OBA free papers influxing 
the market over the last few years.  

this leads me to my next issue
 
(3) if so many people care about OBA-FREE products, and are willing to 
use "off white" papers, why is there not an abundance of "off white" 
OBA free Canvas???  

I guess the only explanation is that OBA free products are primarily 
used by fine art photographers who printmake for themselves and have 
an acute understanding of the OBA issues, vs. the customers of a 
printmaking service bureau who might puke if they saw their image on 
a "natural white" canvas/paper.  I would also imagine that the last 
thing a printmaker offerring the service wants to do, at this point, 
is to educate his customers of all the bad effects of OBAs.  Why "stir 
up the pot", I guess that makes sense to me.    

Anyways, I think this is a very interesting topic and I, as my own 
printmaker, am leaning toward going in the OBA free paper direction 
from here on because WHY deal with potential color shifting when you 
dont have to, and it doesnt cost any more money....I have no customers 
to please but myself and those who buy my art; and when the art hangs 
on the retail wall, the business, or the home, it better look how it 
should. 

My business as a photographer, my money, and my life's passion for 
deriving happiness -- are determined by my images.  

George

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ghoffphotoart" 
<ghoffphotoart@y...> wrote:
> 
> creates a problem here --  when you start with a bright white base 
vs. 
> a natural white base, as we know, you must have a different 
profile.  
> This makes complete sense that in the "right lighting", your image 
> created on an OBA-using paper will color shift as the base color 
> shifts.  Additionally, in the same situation, an image printed on 
OBA-
> free paper will look accurate, and a OBA-using paper will not.  
> 
> I guess the bottom line is that OBA-using papers you have color-
shift 
> risk, and OBA free papers you do not.  

When making the profile you need to compensate for the brightener as 
much as possble. You do this either in the hardware or the software.

>  
> (3) if so many people care about OBA-FREE products, and are willing 
to 
> use "off white" papers, why is there not an abundance of "off 
white" 
> OBA free Canvas???  
> 


A few weeks ago, Adam from Breathingcolor.com sent me a message that 
they now have a canvas that is OBA free. I haven't had the chance to 
call him and talk about it yet, so no more details than that.

These are all valid and interesting points to be considered.

I feel the problem with OBA's is like most of the issues a digital 
print maker has to face, it is not
subject to an easy correct answer.

I will begin my diatribe with my own observations.

I print for photographers and other artists as a living and try to be 
as on top of all the things that
affect this enterprise, don't even get me started about how pigmented 
inks scuff on cotton papers.
I test every paper I print on with each ink that becomes part of my 
system. One of my tests is the
south window facing the California sun test. This is where I first 
encountered the problems with OBA's.
One of the worst offenders of drastic color change due to OBA's was 
with Epson Enhanced Matte. The images
where often very stable on this paper but the paper itself changed from 
a bright white to a deep yellow in as little as
a month in the California sun.

Other papers that where Bright white did not change as radically, and 
some showed practically no changes.

It turns out that some papers have some OBA's in the paper base itself, 
some have OBA's in the inkjet receptive coating,
and some have OBA's in both components.

Furthermore an OBA is not a single specific compound. Many chemical 
substances exhibit florescence.

Not all very white papers necessarily even have OBA's some are just 
very bleached, and some are blue, a very ugly way
of dealing with the situation in my opinion.

Then we get to canvases, all inkjet canvases are treated like 
traditional artist canvas in that  the natural color of the canvas is 
behind
a coating similar in concept to gesso. Just look at the back. These 
coating can be anything under the sun.

Don't just buy into something someone else proclaims like, "never use a 
paper with OBA's" I have dye based prints I made
on my first Iris printer that have not "faded to nothing in three 
years" that are over 10 years old.

Find a combination that looks good, do some actual tests with it, and 
bear in mind what the real world situations are likely to be.
I do still make exhibition prints on EEM if I think it's appropriate.

The most important thing is to actually make prints.

J.Z.