Digital BW, The Print

I'm looking at getting one of the following printers:

HP8450
Epson R800
Epson R1800
Canon i9950 (aka i9900)
Canon Pixma iP5000


Now, for this thread i just want to talk about B&W performance.  How 
would you rate these printers in terms of B&W?  Which is best and 
worst?

Ability to print neutral tones is the biggest thing, followed by 
normal image quality (whether the dots are noticeable, detail, 
punch, longevity etc) and tonality in B&W (particularly how the 
blacks render).

Any thoughts on the performance in this regard of these printers?

how easy are they to get good, neutral B&W without profiling?  What 
about with some tinkering of the settings?  How about after proper 
cailbration and profiling?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jason"
<awright1a@o...> wrote:
> I'm looking at getting one of the following printers:
> 
> HP8450
> Epson R800
> Epson R1800
> Canon i9950 (aka i9900)
> Canon Pixma iP5000
> 
> 
Most people of this list are concerned about print permanence so that
leaves out the Canon printer.

Also most people on this list also want a choice as to their printing
paper and few papers are available for the HP that offer print permanence.

Cheers,
André

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Andre" 
<am1000@v...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jason"
> <awright1a@o...> wrote:
> > I'm looking at getting one of the following printers:
> > 
> > HP8450
> > Epson R800
> > Epson R1800
> > Canon i9950 (aka i9900)
> > Canon Pixma iP5000
> > 
> > 
> Most people of this list are concerned about print permanence so 
that
> leaves out the Canon printer.

the i9950 or the iP5000?  Why does print performance considerations 
leave that out?
> 
> Also most people on this list also want a choice as to their 
printing
> paper and few papers are available for the HP that offer print 
permanence.

> 
> Cheers,
> André

> Ability to print neutral tones is the biggest thing, followed by 
> normal image quality (whether the dots are noticeable, detail, 
> punch, longevity etc) and tonality in B&W (particularly how the 
> blacks render).

I've just purchased the R1800 and have run some initial tests on
greyscale images. Disclaimer- I am far from an expert B&W printer so
take my opinion with a grain of salt...

I am finding that to my eye the output is extremely neutral. However,
after printing some graduation test images I'm finding that RGB values
from approximately 25,25,25 on down are all printing as black- i.e.
the printer is printing too dark. I plan to experiment with
curves/levels adjustments and/or custom profiles to resolve this. I
have no doubt that I'll be able to get output that is good enough for me.

Color output is excellent, though also printing too dark. 

Once I make some progress I'll post my findings in the R1800 group.

One good source of information on finding your Black Point/White 
Point for printing is www.zuberphotographics.com. There is a wealth 
of information for printing on that site.

Your friend in Photography,

Johnny



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jay_madrid" 
<jay_madrid@y...> wrote:
> > Ability to print neutral tones is the biggest thing, followed by 
> > normal image quality (whether the dots are noticeable, detail, 
> > punch, longevity etc) and tonality in B&W (particularly how the 
> > blacks render).
> 
> I've just purchased the R1800 and have run some initial tests on
> greyscale images. Disclaimer- I am far from an expert B&W printer 
so
> take my opinion with a grain of salt...
> 
> I am finding that to my eye the output is extremely neutral. 
However,
> after printing some graduation test images I'm finding that RGB 
values
> from approximately 25,25,25 on down are all printing as black- i.e.
> the printer is printing too dark. I plan to experiment with
> curves/levels adjustments and/or custom profiles to resolve this. I
> have no doubt that I'll be able to get output that is good enough 
for me.

> 
> Color output is excellent, though also printing too dark. 
> 
> Once I make some progress I'll post my findings in the R1800 group.