Digital BW, The Print

Found this at Epson website:

Q: Which Epson media types produce the highest Dmax or L* value? 
A: Our testing has shown that Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper using 
Photo Black ink will produce a Dmax of about 2.4 with an L* value of 
about 3.1. Many of our customers are reporting even better numbers as 
they further push the technology and profile development. 

 
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?
BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=FAQ&oid=57105&prodoid=55197363&foid=60082&ca
t=53478&subcat=53481


Anyone getting these numbers with Eboni PK on Premium Luster?

Scott

> From: scott_now_coming
>
> Found this at Epson website:
>
> Q: Which Epson media types produce the highest Dmax or L* value?
> A: Our testing has shown that Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper using
> Photo Black ink will produce a Dmax of about 2.4 with an L* value of
> about 3.1. Many of our customers are reporting even better numbers as
> they further push the technology and profile development.
>
>
>
<http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes
&infoType=FAQ&oid=57105&prodoid=55197363&foid=60082&cat=53478&subcat=53481>
>
> Anyone getting these numbers with Eboni PK on Premium Luster?

I experimented with the UT-FSN inks on Premium Luster in my old 2000P, with
both the stock Epson black and with Eboni. Strangely, I got better blacks,
about 2.45, by not using the black at all, and using both chambers of the
dark gray. The black inks (both kinds) were pretty black, but they seemed to
have a gloss differential compared to the grays. It took a lot of dark gray,
though.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

When I first used my C86 with MIS inks, I printed a portrait on some 
Premium Luster I had. I was impressed.

I went to purchase 4800 Sat, but it was missing the paper tray (go 
figure) so I have to wait until the dealer gets more units in stock. 
Hopefullly it will be this week.

I'll be using PK, only because I'll need to print "color" also.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul D. 
DeRocco" <pderocco@i...> wrote:
> > From: scott_now_coming
> >
> > Found this at Epson website:
> >
> > Q: Which Epson media types produce the highest Dmax or L* value?
> > A: Our testing has shown that Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper 
using
> > Photo Black ink will produce a Dmax of about 2.4 with an L* value 
of
> > about 3.1. Many of our customers are reporting even better 
numbers as
> > they further push the technology and profile development.
> >
> >
> >
> <http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?
BV_UseBVCookie=yes
> 
&infoType=FAQ&oid=57105&prodoid=55197363&foid=60082&cat=53478&subcat=5
3481>
> >
> > Anyone getting these numbers with Eboni PK on Premium Luster?
> 
> I experimented with the UT-FSN inks on Premium Luster in my old 
2000P, with
> both the stock Epson black and with Eboni. Strangely, I got better 
blacks,
> about 2.45, by not using the black at all, and using both chambers 
of the
> dark gray. The black inks (both kinds) were pretty black, but they 
seemed to
> have a gloss differential compared to the grays. It took a lot of 
dark gray,

> though.
> 
> --
> 
> Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
> Paul                mailto:pderocco@i...

Eboni is not a PK ink.   It will rub off photo paper.

> From: scott_now_coming <scott_now_coming@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 02:21:02 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Premium Luster DMax 2.4
> 
> Found this at Epson website:
> 
> Q: Which Epson media types produce the highest Dmax or L* value?
> A: Our testing has shown that Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper using
> Photo Black ink will produce a Dmax of about 2.4 with an L* value of
> about 3.1. Many of our customers are reporting even better numbers as
> they further push the technology and profile development.
> 
>  
> http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?
> BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=FAQ&oid=57105&prodoid=55197363&foid=60082&ca
> t=53478&subcat=53481
> 
> 
> Anyone getting these numbers with Eboni PK on Premium Luster?
> 
> Scott

I did a couple of 24"x 44" prints this past week with Premium Luster
and the 9600 with PK UC. This particular composite was put together on
a very large ground of pure black (0 in PS). I have to say for someone
who uses primarily fine art media this was a very impressive black,
clean and smooth and deep within a color rgb image. But, what really
surprised me was the depth of black I ended up with after spraying
with Premier Art. Now that is as good as anything I can do on a fine
darkroom paper. Impressive. I've done this in the past but never with
such a large area of pure black on the Premium Luster. With that spray
the relief problems went away too even on such a large image. What we
need is a good non-solvent spray that will do the same thing. I don't
like wearing masks and goggles, that reminds me of the old nasty toxic
days. I still don't like the idea of using plastic media either
because I think it could very easily dry out and become brittle in the
long term so I hope we can end up with a nice gloss fiber paper some
day. It will come. But for now I'm happy to have what I have. If I
didn't have to switch out my inks and go through all that I would do a
lot more of it.

John

John

When you look at the solid black areas closely, can you see droplets of
spray on the image?  I have abandoned spraying with Lyson Printguard for
this reason.  Luckily the new K3 UCs are more scratch resistant.

Steve 

> From: john dean <deanwork2003@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 13:42:58 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Premium Luster DMax 2.4
> 
> I did a couple of 24"x 44" prints this past week with Premium Luster
> and the 9600 with PK UC. This particular composite was put together on
> a very large ground of pure black (0 in PS). I have to say for someone
> who uses primarily fine art media this was a very impressive black,
> clean and smooth and deep within a color rgb image. But, what really
> surprised me was the depth of black I ended up with after spraying
> with Premier Art. Now that is as good as anything I can do on a fine
> darkroom paper. Impressive. I've done this in the past but never with
> such a large area of pure black on the Premium Luster. With that spray
> the relief problems went away too even on such a large image. What we
> need is a good non-solvent spray that will do the same thing. I don't
> like wearing masks and goggles, that reminds me of the old nasty toxic
> days. I still don't like the idea of using plastic media either
> because I think it could very easily dry out and become brittle in the
> long term so I hope we can end up with a nice gloss fiber paper some
> day. It will come. But for now I'm happy to have what I have. If I
> didn't have to switch out my inks and go through all that I would do a
> lot more of it.
> 
> John

Hi Steve,

No, no droplets except on a rare occasion when I had a can that was
near the end or a flawed nozzle on it (twice in years past) I have
never noticed uneven spray patterns on the papers as you refer to. It
is possible that you need to hold the scan closer to the surface. It
could be drying before it hits the paper. And also keep the can moving
in wave patterns and overlap continuously.

Now one very strange thing did happen to me on this job though. I did
three coats of Premier Art spray outside in a very damp environment on
this 22x444 because I am about to leave town and just wanted to get
the things done and delivered. Of course the rc prints needed to cure
for 24 hours at least to outgass before I did it. They actually had 48
hours under airconditioning to do so this time.  What happened was I
noticed a slight fogging of the surface after one dried, that didn't
look like the outgassing fog you can encouneter. It was subtle and
only happend on one of the big prints. It made me mad. What I did was
pull out my fine cotton scanning drum cloth and polished the surface
of that print. The foggyness went away entirely with no scratches or
any defects. I may have put too much spray on that one. You only
really need three light coats. 

I like what you say about the K3 set. There is always something to
spend money on huh? The government just said that the majority of
Americans spend everythng they make and save nothing anymore. What do
they expecet when we have to buy a new Epson printer every year?

John (headed for vacation and no computer screens for one week)






--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:

> John
> 
> When you look at the solid black areas closely, can you see droplets of
> spray on the image?  I have abandoned spraying with Lyson Printguard for
> this reason.  Luckily the new K3 UCs are more scratch resistant.
> 
> Steve 
> 
> 
> > From: john dean <deanwork2003@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 13:42:58 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Premium Luster DMax 2.4
> > 
> > I did a couple of 24"x 44" prints this past week with Premium Luster
> > and the 9600 with PK UC. This particular composite was put together on
> > a very large ground of pure black (0 in PS). I have to say for someone
> > who uses primarily fine art media this was a very impressive black,
> > clean and smooth and deep within a color rgb image. But, what really
> > surprised me was the depth of black I ended up with after spraying
> > with Premier Art. Now that is as good as anything I can do on a fine
> > darkroom paper. Impressive. I've done this in the past but never with
> > such a large area of pure black on the Premium Luster. With that spray
> > the relief problems went away too even on such a large image. What we
> > need is a good non-solvent spray that will do the same thing. I don't
> > like wearing masks and goggles, that reminds me of the old nasty toxic
> > days. I still don't like the idea of using plastic media either
> > because I think it could very easily dry out and become brittle in the
> > long term so I hope we can end up with a nice gloss fiber paper some
> > day. It will come. But for now I'm happy to have what I have. If I
> > didn't have to switch out my inks and go through all that I would do a
> > lot more of it.
> > 
> > John

Hmmm.  I have tried everything with Lyson Print Guard.  Perhaps Premier Art
Print Shield really is a different product or at least in a better can...

> From: john dean <deanwork2003@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:31:52 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Premium Luster DMax 2.4
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> No, no droplets except on a rare occasion when I had a can that was
> near the end or a flawed nozzle on it (twice in years past) I have
> never noticed uneven spray patterns on the papers as you refer to. It
> is possible that you need to hold the scan closer to the surface. It
> could be drying before it hits the paper. And also keep the can moving
> in wave patterns and overlap continuously.

John,
Milky fogging appearance happens when you spray lacquer in high humidity.  I
spray in the basement, which is dehumidified, but the stink is terrible, I
gave up the practice.

If it happens again, you may be able to fix it by spraying another coat when
the humidity is lower, rather than polishing.

Enjoy your time away


Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of john dean
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 12:32 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Premium Luster DMax 2.4

Hi Steve,

No, no droplets except on a rare occasion when I had a can that was
near the end or a flawed nozzle on it (twice in years past) I have
never noticed uneven spray patterns on the papers as you refer to. It
is possible that you need to hold the scan closer to the surface. It
could be drying before it hits the paper. And also keep the can moving
in wave patterns and overlap continuously.

Now one very strange thing did happen to me on this job though. I did
three coats of Premier Art spray outside in a very damp environment on
this 22x444 because I am about to leave town and just wanted to get
the things done and delivered. Of course the rc prints needed to cure
for 24 hours at least to outgass before I did it. They actually had 48
hours under airconditioning to do so this time.  What happened was I
noticed a slight fogging of the surface after one dried, that didn't
look like the outgassing fog you can encouneter. It was subtle and
only happend on one of the big prints. It made me mad. What I did was
pull out my fine cotton scanning drum cloth and polished the surface
of that print. The foggyness went away entirely with no scratches or
any defects. I may have put too much spray on that one. You only
really need three light coats.

I like what you say about the K3 set. There is always something to
spend money on huh? The government just said that the majority of
Americans spend everythng they make and save nothing anymore. What do
they expecet when we have to buy a new Epson printer every year?

John (headed for vacation and no computer screens for one week)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John,

> -----Original Message-----
> ... What we
> need is a good non-solvent spray that will do the same thing. I don't
> like wearing masks and goggles, that reminds me of the old nasty toxic
> days...
> I hope we can end up with a nice gloss fiber paper some day...

Premier Imaging is trying to push their Eco Print Shield as the answer to
this.

It sounds like you might have enough volume for a spray booth and a HVLP
sprayer.  Some have had good luck with the water-based solutions in those
settings.  For my small volume, however, it just isn't feasible.  The goal
of a cotton paper and non-toxic coating is definitely worth pursuing,
however.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Steve,



> I have tried everything with Lyson Print Guard.  Perhaps Premier Art
> Print Shield really is a different product or at least in a better can...


From our previous discussions, I've concluded they must be different.  The
Premier Imaging folks dislike the solvent sprays in part because they have
trouble shipping them -- not allowed in the air with normal shipping, for
example.  I've suggested to PermaJet that they try to get a deal going with
Premier Art to take care of this problem.  Also, I sense Europe does not
have the Premier Art papers.  Permajet (soon to be "Imaging Warehouse" I
think) might also help fill that void.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi.  You had mentioned to me before another potential spray. Any news on
that?

PS:  Any news on Permajet fixing their advertising/brochures re OBAs?

> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>

> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> 
> 
>> I have tried everything with Lyson Print Guard.  Perhaps Premier Art
>> Print Shield really is a different product or at least in a better can...
> 
> 
> From our previous discussions, I've concluded they must be different.  The
> Premier Imaging folks dislike the solvent sprays in part because they have
> trouble shipping them -- not allowed in the air with normal shipping, for
> example.  I've suggested to PermaJet that they try to get a deal going with
> Premier Art to take care of this problem.  Also, I sense Europe does not
> have the Premier Art papers.  Permajet (soon to be "Imaging Warehouse" I
> think) might also help fill that void.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

I do want to try out the Eco Print Shield. You seem to not be too
impressed with its ease of use though, right?

I'm starting to use the DCP non toxic varnish applied by hand for
canvas and that's nice. Like you say I might just end up making a
booth and start spraying that and experiment with the new Print Shield
that way as well.

John



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> John,
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > ... What we
> > need is a good non-solvent spray that will do the same thing. I don't
> > like wearing masks and goggles, that reminds me of the old nasty toxic
> > days...
> > I hope we can end up with a nice gloss fiber paper some day...
> 
> Premier Imaging is trying to push their Eco Print Shield as the
answer to
> this.
> 
> It sounds like you might have enough volume for a spray booth and a HVLP
> sprayer.  Some have had good luck with the water-based solutions in
those
> settings.  For my small volume, however, it just isn't feasible. 
The goal

> of a cotton paper and non-toxic coating is definitely worth pursuing,
> however.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Steve,

> You had mentioned to me before another potential spray. Any news on
> that?

In my latest fade test it yellowed slightly more than PremierArt Print
Shield (best) or no spray (second best).  I used Kirkland as the glossy test
paper.  Yellowing is typically one of the problems of coatings.  So, when I
detect more movement on the b* axis (did I get it right this time?) than no
spray or the best spray, my interest in the product takes a nose dive.  The
yellowing was not bad at a delta of 3.39 compared to the paper itself at
2.81, but the test, at 600 hours, is only equivalent to about 6 Wilhelm
years.  So, without more testing that indicates this initial "yellow flag"
(so to speak) is a random artifact and not a preview of more to come, I
can't recommend it.  And, frankly, I have sufficient confidence in my
testing that the product probably will not make the cut for a space in the
next fade test.  (Other issues are more important, and space is limited.)  I
expect PJ will also lose interest in the product.

By the way, I suspect the Premier Art Print Shield UV filtering is slowing
the OBA burnout.  Once all the OBAs are gone, whether Print Shield then
still yellows less than the paper is an open question. 



> 
> PS:  Any news on Permajet fixing their advertising/brochures re OBAs?

They have acknowledged the "confusion," and I was led to believe it'll be
clarified in the future.  Time will tell.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> 
> 
> > From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@verizon.net>
> 
> >
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> >
> >
> >> I have tried everything with Lyson Print Guard.  Perhaps Premier Art
> >> Print Shield really is a different product or at least in a better
> can...
> >
> >
> > From our previous discussions, I've concluded they must be different.
> The
> > Premier Imaging folks dislike the solvent sprays in part because they
> have
> > trouble shipping them -- not allowed in the air with normal shipping,
> for
> > example.  I've suggested to PermaJet that they try to get a deal going
> with
> > Premier Art to take care of this problem.  Also, I sense Europe does not
> > have the Premier Art papers.  Permajet (soon to be "Imaging Warehouse" I
> > think) might also help fill that void.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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