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Digital BW, The Print

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Glossy vs. Matte Dynamics

Glossy vs. Matte Dynamics

2005-08-22 by claudej1@aol.com

In a message dated 8/22/2005 4:34:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:

For  normal humans the matt surface gives much better natural feeling, 
the 3D  illusion is not destroyed by glossy reflections.

One joky sample - try  print something as Boston's muzeum (glossy 
metal tower) with the sky - you  may print it on matt paper but on 
glossy you never receive the contrast  between "matte" sky and glossy 
building.  ;-)

Martin



The problem you describe is not so much about the surface of the paper, but  
rather, the lighting and viewing environment.
 
I have been a PPA/WPPI print judge at national and state competitions. What  
cracks up about the mentality of portrait photographers is that it's  "bad" to 
sell portrait/wedding clients prints on glossy paper, but E surface  (Luster, 
Semigloss) or N surface (semi matte) is OK.
 
YET, all of the competition prints are either glossy laminates or have  
multilayers of Diamond Gloss lacquer applied to them. They are also printed much  
darker than normal. WHY?
 
Because under twin spotlights used for viewing (especially viewed by the  
non-judging audience in a darkened room) these prints look like 16x20 backlit  
transparencies. The minute some "artsy" rebel decides to put up a print on matte 
 paper, it looks dull and lifeless in comparison to the rest. I can attest to 
 this as I typically view 1,500 images in 2 grueling 8-hour days.(we are 
talking  mostly color here, the B&W matte looks good, but not right after a full  
scale glossy B&W). Fortunately most judges look the merit and impact of the  
image not the surface.
 
The notable exceptions are the digital "watercolor" paintings that push  
pixels around with computer "brushes." I have printed several of these on the  
super-thick (550 gsm) Epson Velvet paper and there is no "Dmax" anywhere in the  
file, so you can use PK for matte papers just fine.
 
In B&W it's a whole different thing altogether because we cannot SEE in  
shades of gray in the real 3-d world. Therefore B&W is INHERENTLY abstract,  so 
anything goes for that market, thankfully.
 
Claude
 
PS: I don't miss the days of wasted time and paper with a 10-minute per  
print expose/develop/stop/fix/fix cycle, then tone the heroes in super-toxic  
selenium followed by a 90 minute wash cycle in an overpriced aquarium with  
overnight drying. I can make more money and save more time with inkjet output.  What 
an inefficient way to work that was.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Glossy vs. Matte Dynamics

2005-08-22 by Clayton Jones

Hello Claude,

>PS: I don't miss the days of wasted time and paper with a 10-minute 
>per print expose/develop/stop/fix/fix cycle, then tone the heroes 
>in super-toxic selenium followed by a 90 minute wash cycle in an 
>overpriced aquarium with overnight drying. I can make more money and 
>save more time with inkjet output.  What an inefficient way to work 
>that was.

Amen.  Best description of it I've seen in a while.  I especially like
your "overpriced aquarium" <g>.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy vs. Matte Dynamics

2005-08-22 by Jim Goshorn

On Aug 22, 2005, at 1:39 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:

> I especially like your "overpriced aquarium"

But they are made out of beautiful plexi with plexi separators  and  
are optimized for the number and size of the prints to wash with  
holes drilled in specific places at the bottom so the water can  
circulate correctly and flow out the top preventing the fixer from  
settling to the bottom and let's not forget the logo handsomely  
printed on the outside...  :-)

Jim

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy vs. Matte Dynamics

2005-08-22 by Andy-J

Uh.....yeah.....

On 8/22/05, Jim Goshorn <jgoshorn@...> wrote: 
> 
> 
> On Aug 22, 2005, at 1:39 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:
> 
> > I especially like your "overpriced aquarium"
> 
> But they are made out of beautiful plexi with plexi separators and
> are optimized for the number and size of the prints to wash with
> holes drilled in specific places at the bottom so the water can
> circulate correctly and flow out the top preventing the fixer from
> settling to the bottom and let's not forget the logo handsomely
> printed on the outside... :-)
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Glossy vs. Matte Dynamics

2005-08-23 by Martin Sluka

At 11:08 -0400 22.8.2005, claudej1@... wrote:
*******************************************

>Therefore B&W is INHERENTLY abstract

It is the reason - to destroy the abstraction by glossy reflections :)

Martin
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