Digital BW, The Print

I just loaded the new base EZ-N and PK into my C86 and made some comparison
prints on Epson Premium Glossy paper and Kirkland Glossy Inkjet paper.  The
Premium Glossy is vastly improved in terms of bronzing, and the Kirkland is
nearly perfect. 

 

On the true "Glossy" papers there is still a bit of gloss differential, but
it's good enough to be fine as is.  (I had PKN in for the old prints, so I
don't have a good old v. new PK comparison.)   The glossiness is not a super
gloss, which is a plus from my perspective.  This is not a "Cibachrome" type
of finish.

 

The Premium Semimatte seems to be very uniform in finish, as does Luster -
virtually no bronzing either.

 

Premium Semigloss does not do quite as well with the bronzing.  Maybe that
is why Epson seems to de-emphasize it.  If it were sprayed, I think the
finish might be superior.  However now that we have good options that don't
need spray, I'll probably avoid PSG.  So, this new ink and no spray drop PSG
from my list.  

 

 

Frankly, the improvement is so good I would not longer use the old EZ-N ink.
If the results are the same with the other printers, I think Glop is dead
and sprays are no longer necessary if one is concerned with the bronzing -
it's essentially gone.  I still would use PremierArt Print Shield for
protection.

 

An interesting possibility is PSM behind glass.  Could it be tape hung and
not see the ripples?  The higher dmax (2.33 with new MIS PK after a couple
of hours) without the need to dry mount would be very nice.  In the past I
thought the sprayed PSM needed dry mounting. 

 

Progress.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a bunch of prints hanging up which are EPSG, hinge mounted behind an
8 ply mat without glass.  12x18in prints have been hinged with just 2
hinges.  Even without glass these prints have not rippled.  I just make sure
I have a reasonable overlap of mat and print paper.  The EPSM is a little
lighter but I doubt the difference is significant.

> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>

>  
> 
> An interesting possibility is PSM behind glass.  Could it be tape hung and
> not see the ripples?  The higher dmax (2.33 with new MIS PK after a couple
> of hours) without the need to dry mount would be very nice.  In the past I
> thought the sprayed PSM needed dry mounting.

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the info on the new base inks -- that's very good news!

Will you be running tests on these papers printing without the PK for 
those of us who are running Eboni in the K position and want to mix 
the two dark grays to retain matte printing capability?

I'm particularly interested in Premium Luster and Semimatte. Also, do 
you anticipate any changes in matte paper performance?

As always, thanks for all you do...

Cheers!
Richard

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> I just loaded the new base EZ-N and PK into my C86 and made some 
comparison 
> prints on Epson Premium Glossy paper and Kirkland Glossy Inkjet 
paper.  The
> Premium Glossy is vastly improved in terms of bronzing, and the 
Kirkland is
> nearly perfect. 
> 
> On the true "Glossy" papers there is still a bit of gloss 
differential, but
> it's good enough to be fine as is.  (I had PKN in for the old 
prints, so I
> don't have a good old v. new PK comparison.)   The glossiness is 
not a super
> gloss, which is a plus from my perspective.  This is not 
a "Cibachrome" type
> of finish.

> The Premium Semimatte seems to be very uniform in finish, as does 
Luster -
> virtually no bronzing either.

<snip>

Richard,

> 
> Thanks for the info on the new base inks -- that's very good news!
> 
> Will you be running tests on these papers printing without the PK for
> those of us who are running Eboni in the K position and want to mix
> the two dark grays to retain matte printing capability?

I'm not sure this has any application to the c86 that I was referring to.
On the other inksets, I assume the same approach as always will work.  (Or
did I misunderstand the question?)


>... do you anticipate any changes in matte paper performance?

No, I did an initial fade test comparison and there was no difference from
the last generation of MIS pigments.  I think it's only or mostly the base
that is different.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > I just loaded the new base EZ-N and PK into my C86 and made some
> comparison
> > prints on Epson Premium Glossy paper and Kirkland Glossy Inkjet
> paper.  The
> > Premium Glossy is vastly improved in terms of bronzing, and the
> Kirkland is
> > nearly perfect.
> >
> > On the true "Glossy" papers there is still a bit of gloss
> differential, but
> > it's good enough to be fine as is.  (I had PKN in for the old
> prints, so I
> > don't have a good old v. new PK comparison.)   The glossiness is
> not a super
> > gloss, which is a plus from my perspective.  This is not
> a "Cibachrome" type
> > of finish.
> 
> > The Premium Semimatte seems to be very uniform in finish, as does
> Luster -
> > virtually no bronzing either.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>

Hi Paul,

It's far more likely that I stated the question poorly ;>)

An example: I'm using the UT2 inkset with Ebony in a 1280 and mixing 
the two dark grays instead of using PK(N) when printing on Premium 
Luster and Semimatte. However, I still see enough bronzing and gloss 
differential that a finish coat of Premier Art spray is necessary.

If I were to print with this same configuration but using the new 
base inks, would expect it to work but am wondering if I will see the 
same reduction in bronzing and gloss differential that you're seeing 
on the C86 with PK?

So my question was more toward whether you were going to run some 
tests on another machine using the two dark grays to validate the 
improvements -- i.e., no need for glop or spraying to resolve gloss 
differential or bronzing, especially on Premium Luster or PSM.

Does that make sense, or have I misunderstood that the new base would 
be replacing the old across all the UT family of inks?

Thanks, Paul.

Richard

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Richard,
> 
> > 
> > Thanks for the info on the new base inks -- that's very good news!
> > 
> > Will you be running tests on these papers printing without the PK 
for
> > those of us who are running Eboni in the K position and want to 
mix
> > the two dark grays to retain matte printing capability?
> 
> I'm not sure this has any application to the c86 that I was 
referring to.
> On the other inksets, I assume the same approach as always will 
work.  (Or
> did I misunderstand the question?)
> 
> 
> >... do you anticipate any changes in matte paper performance?
> 
> No, I did an initial fade test comparison and there was no 
difference from
> the last generation of MIS pigments.  I think it's only or mostly 
the base

> that is different.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
>

Richard,

You wrote:

> I'm using the UT2 inkset with Ebony in a 1280 and mixing
> the two dark grays instead of using PK(N) when printing on Premium
> Luster and Semimatte. However, I still see enough bronzing and gloss
> differential that a finish coat of Premier Art spray is necessary.

> If I were to print with this same configuration but using the new
> base inks, would expect it to work but am wondering if I will see the
> same reduction in bronzing and gloss differential that you're seeing
> on the C86 with PK?

I hope the UT2 inkset shows the same improvement.  I did test the new LM and
LC, and they show the same improvement.   I have not been able to test the
dark UT2 and UT7 grays, but I'll be working with similar dilutions soon and
see how they look.  I expect the same improvement.  (I'll test the UT7 as
soon as I figure out how to get my 7600 running again -- or pay the big
bucks probably needed for fixing it.)

So far, from what I've seen, I'm just assuming the improvements will be
across the board.  Not all papers will benefit equally, but I think there
will be enough that do that we'll be in very good shape when it comes to
"glossy" paper printing. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Richard,
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the info on the new base inks -- that's very good news!
> > >
> > > Will you be running tests on these papers printing without the PK
> for
> > > those of us who are running Eboni in the K position and want to
> mix
> > > the two dark grays to retain matte printing capability?
> >
> > I'm not sure this has any application to the c86 that I was
> referring to.
> > On the other inksets, I assume the same approach as always will
> work.  (Or
> > did I misunderstand the question?)
> >
> >
> > >... do you anticipate any changes in matte paper performance?
> >
> > No, I did an initial fade test comparison and there was no
> difference from
> > the last generation of MIS pigments.  I think it's only or mostly
> the base
> > that is different.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
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> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
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> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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> 
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> 
>

Paul,

Thanks very much for sharing your evaluation and expectations of the 
new base inks, and I'll look forward to hearing about your findings 
as you're able to work with the balance of the UT dilutions. I'll 
still got quite a bit of UT2 "old stock", but I must admit I'm very 
tempted to place an order for a set of inks with the new base ;>)

I hope your 7600 comes back to life without having to resort to 
a "service call", because as you probably know, unless you personally 
know a good tech their prices are quite astronomical and inversely 
proportionate to their ability to effectively repair these machines.

My experience is more with the 7000 and 9000 machines (my 9600 has 
been running without a hitch for a couple of years now, knock wood); 
however, if there's any way I can help please let me know...

Thanks again, Paul.
Richard
  

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Richard,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> > I'm using the UT2 inkset with Ebony in a 1280 and mixing
> > the two dark grays instead of using PK(N) when printing on Premium
> > Luster and Semimatte. However, I still see enough bronzing and 
gloss
> > differential that a finish coat of Premier Art spray is necessary.
> 
> > If I were to print with this same configuration but using the new
> > base inks, would expect it to work but am wondering if I will see 
the
> > same reduction in bronzing and gloss differential that you're 
seeing
> > on the C86 with PK?
> 
> I hope the UT2 inkset shows the same improvement.  I did test the 
new LM and
> LC, and they show the same improvement.   I have not been able to 
test the
> dark UT2 and UT7 grays, but I'll be working with similar dilutions 
soon and
> see how they look.  I expect the same improvement.  (I'll test the 
UT7 as
> soon as I figure out how to get my 7600 running again -- or pay the 
big
> bucks probably needed for fixing it.)
> 
> So far, from what I've seen, I'm just assuming the improvements 
will be
> across the board.  Not all papers will benefit equally, but I think 
there
> will be enough that do that we'll be in very good shape when it 
comes to
> "glossy" paper printing. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
<snip >

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> (I'll test the UT7 as
> soon as I figure out how to get my 7600 running again -- or pay the 
big
> bucks probably needed for fixing it.)
> 


What's it doing, or maybe what's it not doing? To avoid too much OT 
on this feel free to email me directly. I do remember that you had a 
clogging problem, but I thought you had that fixed.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "richard_h95050" 
<richardh@j...> wrote:
> 
> I hope your 7600 comes back to life without having to resort to 
> a "service call", because as you probably know, unless you 
personally 
> know a good tech their prices are quite astronomical and inversely 
> proportionate to their ability to effectively repair these machines.
> 


Never thought of it like that, but that can be very true!

I made several QTR curves for the new MIS PRO inkset that also uses the new
base and found that it still had too much bronzing. Especially pure white
and the lighter tones had visible gloss differential and some bronzing. This
was using PK and LK with some LC and LM toners. I suspect UT7 might do
better because of the lighter gray ink which should get more ink coverage in
the highlights. Pure whites might still be a problem though.

I saw some 2400 prints here the other day and noticed the same gloss
differential in the highlights.

Personally I still feel that GLOP is needed to get the perfectly smooth,
even finish on my prints that I want.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

Daniel


> I made several QTR curves for the new MIS PRO inkset that also uses the
> new
> base and found that it still had too much bronzing. Especially pure white
> and the lighter tones had visible gloss differential and some bronzing.

What paper were you using?  That is clearly one important factor.  As I
mentioned in my post, Premium Semigloss was a bit of a disappointment.

I printed a Premium Semimatte yesterday with the 7500 and old inks and then
sprayed it with Print Shield.  I must say, I still prefer the sprayed
prints.  However, for most things there is no way I want to spray them.  

I found the new inks and the Kirkland paper made great one-sided brochure
material that saved my a bunch of money in my last show -- no need to
outsource one-sided glossies any more.  

I have yet to find a good glossy paper that can accept print on the reverse
side, however.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul:

Thanks for the update.  QUESTION:  Is this new ink available now at
MIS?  I just came from the site, and no mention is made that the PK
ink is new.  So if I order, I don't know if I'm getting "old" or new.

This is really great news.  I just started b/w printing on my c84 a
few weeks ago, and as much as I WANT to like Eboni plus Matte paper, I
long for the richness and d-max of glossy prints.  I know, I know, all
about the "plasticky" arguments.  Funny, I do prefer Matte for color
prints, but want to have maximum density in b/w.

Lemme know.......

Mark

Mark,

The new EZ inks are what MIS is now selling, as far as I know.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> McCombs
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:15 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: C86 EZ New Base
> 
> Hi Paul:
> 
> Thanks for the update.  QUESTION:  Is this new ink available now at
> MIS?  I just came from the site, and no mention is made that the PK
> ink is new.  So if I order, I don't know if I'm getting "old" or new.
> 
> This is really great news.  I just started b/w printing on my c84 a
> few weeks ago, and as much as I WANT to like Eboni plus Matte paper, I
> long for the richness and d-max of glossy prints.  I know, I know, all
> about the "plasticky" arguments.  Funny, I do prefer Matte for color
> prints, but want to have maximum density in b/w.
> 
> Lemme know.......
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
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> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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> the membership.
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> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
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> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
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> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>