Digital BW, The Print

Following the suggestions on this board I purchased an Epson 9800 
and an Epson 4800 as my studio has a need for two printers.

The 4800 arrived a few days ago and if the quality of the printing 
is any indication of what the 9800 will all I can say is WOW.

My question is this;

I have read about many of the major RIPS. The Imageprint (4800 
Version available Monday) and Studioprint RIPS seem to be very 
popular. I have made test prints using the ABW and Black modes of 
the 4800. Both produce wonderfully smooth and glowing prints on EEM 
and PhotoRag papers (all I have right now).

I tried the QTR RIP and the seem to lack the local contrast and glow 
of the Epson 4800 Driver's prints and are not as impressive.

So, with that in mind, who makes the best rip available for printing 
B/W prints?

Thanks

Michael Johnson

There is no best of course. Also, they all do different things.
I'm sure you could have matched the QTR output to the Epson ABW output
with a bit of editing. Terms like impressive and glow don't really
define digital process. We're generally after some sort of acurate
output from these different choices, then it's up to use to edit and
print in a manner that yeilds print that impress. Then the choice of
inks and papers will also yield differnt subjective responces.
If you simply want to use the OEM Epson inks and print with as little
goofing around as possible, I'd just stick with the ABW Epson driver.
Perhaps eventually you'll run into some limitation, and then see if a
RIP can move you forward.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"palladiumprinter1" <palladiumprinter1@y...> wrote:

>
> Following the suggestions on this board I purchased an Epson 9800 
> and an Epson 4800 as my studio has a need for two printers.
> 
> The 4800 arrived a few days ago and if the quality of the printing 
> is any indication of what the 9800 will all I can say is WOW.
> 
> My question is this;
> 
> I have read about many of the major RIPS. The Imageprint (4800 
> Version available Monday) and Studioprint RIPS seem to be very 
> popular. I have made test prints using the ABW and Black modes of 
> the 4800. Both produce wonderfully smooth and glowing prints on EEM 
> and PhotoRag papers (all I have right now).
> 
> I tried the QTR RIP and the seem to lack the local contrast and glow 
> of the Epson 4800 Driver's prints and are not as impressive.
> 
> So, with that in mind, who makes the best rip available for printing 
> B/W prints?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Michael Johnson
>

My intent was not to "define digital process". I am a commercial photographer. I am not a "pixel peeper" or a "pixel geek". I look at the final image and subjectively decide wether or not it works.
 
My question still stands, will the ImagePrint or StudioPrint RIPS make "better" black and white prints with the Epson 4800?
 
By better I am looking for luminous prints, clean tones, smooth gradations and excellent local contrast with no muddy areas. Sorry is this description is not technical enough, but I am interested in the emotional response I get from an image and not the technical issues that make up the result.
 
Thanks
M. Johnson

Tyler Boley <tyler@...> wrote:
Terms like impressive and glow don't really
define digital process. 
		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My apologies for being less than clear. Unfortunately my answer would
still be the same, if only I could state it better. How I managed to
evoke "pixel peeper" or "pixel geek" into the conversation escapes me
a bit, live and learn. I did not mean to imply for a second that your
description is not technical enough.
The 2 RIPs you mention do very different things, and unfortunately
whether or not the result from either is luminous or not still gets
back to the quality of the file, the talent of the printer, etc..
Both RIPs can yeild outstanding prints and crappy prints, depending,
and both have very different workflows and methods. Neither is "better".
We are all interested in the emotional responce, myseld as much as anyone.
Perhaps someone else can describe this all a bit better...
Tyler


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Michael Johnson
<palladiumprinter1@y...> wrote:
>
> My intent was not to "define digital process". I am a commercial
photographer. I am not a "pixel peeper" or a "pixel geek". I look at
the final image and subjectively decide wether or not it works.
>  
> My question still stands, will the ImagePrint or StudioPrint RIPS
make "better" black and white prints with the Epson 4800?
>  
> By better I am looking for luminous prints, clean tones, smooth
gradations and excellent local contrast with no muddy areas. Sorry is
this description is not technical enough, but I am interested in the
emotional response I get from an image and not the technical issues
that make up the result.

>  
> Thanks
> M. Johnson
> 
> Tyler Boley <tyler@t...> wrote:
> Terms like impressive and glow don't really
> define digital process. 
> 		
> ---------------------------------
>  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.  
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Michael Johnson 
<palladiumprinter1@y...> wrote:
>
> My intent was not to "define digital process". I am a commercial 
photographer. I am not a "pixel peeper" or a "pixel geek". I look at 
the final image and subjectively decide wether or not it works.
>  
> My question still stands, will the ImagePrint or StudioPrint RIPS 
make "better" black and white prints with the Epson 4800?
>  
> By better I am looking for luminous prints, clean tones, smooth 
gradations and excellent local contrast with no muddy areas. Sorry is 
this description is not technical enough, but I am interested in the 
emotional response I get from an image and not the technical issues 
that make up the result.
>  

With this clarification I'll add the little bit that is certain, 
since no one has a good RIP out for these printers (except the 
colorburst RIP), it's a little hard to know. What one of these RIPs 
will allow is for you to set the linearization and ink limiting for 
non Epson papers. We can see from this post
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/692
21
that other papers will have linearity and limit problems. It is not 
yet known if the Epson Colorbase application can correct these types 
of errors. Will you get a better (more pleasing) dither, or any other 
workflow advantages with using a RIP? Hard to call. Some say yes, 
some say no. A good RIP will give you much more control over the way 
the inks are used, so the only real way is to try several and see for 
yourself. Just about everyone will have their new software out within 
a few weeks after Epson releases the complete details for the drivers 
and how to control the new machines.

One thing to note.... Most RIPs will want CMYK profiles, so you might 
need a much more expensive profiling option. Choose something that 
has the ability to change the amount of GCR in the profile.

Hello Michael,

>My question still stands, will the ImagePrint or StudioPrint RIPS 
>make "better" black and white prints with the Epson 4800?

I have a 2400, and via print exchanges over the past few years have
seen prints from just about every system out there.  Based on this
experience, IMO the K3 printers are producing as good as anything I've
seen so far that uses color inks.  I think that if there were any
improvements to be had with a RIP, there would be some question as to
whether the degree of difference would be worth the extra time, hassle
and expense.  

On the other hand, it is also possible that these printers might have
some advantage (either aesthetic or in longevity) if they were using
grayscale inks, in which case it might require a RIP to control them.
Just food for thought.

One thing is for sure, nobody is going to turn up their nose at what
your 4800 can produce right now, so count your blessings <g>.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm