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2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by wwodets

A friend has just sent me an unmanaged 51-step gray file printed from 
his 2400 and I compared it with the same target printed with my 2400.  
Both targets were printed on Velvet Fine Art, ABW Neutral (Darker).   
For the 90, 92, 94, 96, 98 and 100 steps the measured values are shown 
first for his printer and then in parentheses for my printer:

19.46 (19.38); 17.67 (17.60); 16.63 (16.41); 15.53 (15.48; 14.36 
(14.47); 13.84 (13.83).

So, it seems to me that the consistency between these two inexpensive, 
uncalibrated printers is remarkable; and I would point out again that 
the shadow separation, linearity and D-max of this paper seems much 
better than anything else I have measured or than has been discussed on 
the forum over the past few days.  My corresponding figures for the HPR 
(VFA paper setting) are:

18.39, 17.63, 17.14, 16.94, 16.69, 16.80.

Walt

Re: [Digital BW] 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Steve Kale

Hi Walt

Yes, I have heard that generally people in the paper industry are very
impressed with Epson's ability to get their inks to collaborate with their
papers.  Makes sense to be able to have a full design circle.  Epson MK ink
is weak when it comes to non Epson papers and Eboni performs much better.
But of course the Epson AB&W driver is calibrated to their media.  If we
move away from Epson's closed design world it's good to know we have tools
such as QTR Create ICC to help us.

Also I really do suspect Epson has not targeted linear (L*) output with the
ABW driver but rather a curved response that reflects the linearization and
luminance scaling issues we have dwelled on for the last couple years.  Alas
I doubt we will ever know for sure...The good news now is that thanks to Roy
we can profile whatever it is.

Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: wwodets <odets@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:52:28 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .
> 
> A friend has just sent me an unmanaged 51-step gray file printed from
> his 2400 and I compared it with the same target printed with my 2400.
> Both targets were printed on Velvet Fine Art, ABW Neutral (Darker).
> For the 90, 92, 94, 96, 98 and 100 steps the measured values are shown
> first for his printer and then in parentheses for my printer:
> 
> 19.46 (19.38); 17.67 (17.60); 16.63 (16.41); 15.53 (15.48; 14.36
> (14.47); 13.84 (13.83).
> 
> So, it seems to me that the consistency between these two inexpensive,
> uncalibrated printers is remarkable; and I would point out again that
> the shadow separation, linearity and D-max of this paper seems much
> better than anything else I have measured or than has been discussed on
> the forum over the past few days.  My corresponding figures for the HPR
> (VFA paper setting) are:
> 
> 18.39, 17.63, 17.14, 16.94, 16.69, 16.80.
> 
> Walt

Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Greg

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets" 
<odets@c...> wrote:
> My corresponding figures for the HPR (VFA paper setting) are:
> 
> 18.39, 17.63, 17.14, 16.94, 16.69, 16.80.
> 
> Walt
>

Looks like a small problem with that last step, but at least it's 
only 1 step, not several.

Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Tyler Boley

Velvet Fine Art is simply rebranded Somerset. Though it is nice paper
the Hahnemühle papers have always been able to get a higher dmax and
ink load. In comparing Innova to Hahnemühle I would expect it to
outperform Somerset as well.
I'm not knocking Somerset, I've seen many nice prints on it, but
something unusual must be going on with your tests. Perhaps there are
other settings that would take better advantage of the other papers'
capabilities.
Somerset still has one of the nicest surfaces ever produced for our use.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets"
<odets@c...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> A friend has just sent me an unmanaged 51-step gray file printed from 
> his 2400 and I compared it with the same target printed with my 2400.  
> Both targets were printed on Velvet Fine Art, ABW Neutral (Darker).   
> For the 90, 92, 94, 96, 98 and 100 steps the measured values are shown 
> first for his printer and then in parentheses for my printer:
> 
> 19.46 (19.38); 17.67 (17.60); 16.63 (16.41); 15.53 (15.48; 14.36 
> (14.47); 13.84 (13.83).
> 
> So, it seems to me that the consistency between these two inexpensive, 
> uncalibrated printers is remarkable; and I would point out again that 
> the shadow separation, linearity and D-max of this paper seems much 
> better than anything else I have measured or than has been discussed on 
> the forum over the past few days.  My corresponding figures for the HPR 
> (VFA paper setting) are:
> 
> 18.39, 17.63, 17.14, 16.94, 16.69, 16.80.
> 
> Walt
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Steve Kale

My understanding is that St Cuthberts Mill ships the substrate and then
Epson has its own (or more likely yet another third party) coating and so
performs much better than Somerset Velvet Enhanced.  I agree the Somerset
product isn't that great re density but has a nice finish.  I have a couple
of unused boxes tucked away somewhere - not bad ink blotter paper ;-)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:46:22 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .
> 
> Velvet Fine Art is simply rebranded Somerset. Though it is nice paper
> the Hahnemühle papers have always been able to get a higher dmax and
> ink load. In comparing Innova to Hahnemühle I would expect it to
> outperform Somerset as well.
> I'm not knocking Somerset, I've seen many nice prints on it, but
> something unusual must be going on with your tests. Perhaps there are
> other settings that would take better advantage of the other papers'
> capabilities.
> Somerset still has one of the nicest surfaces ever produced for our use.
> Tyler
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Carl Schofield

Tyler,

I had the same findings as Walt concerning VFA vs HPR dmax with the  
2400 and k3 MK ink.  HPR about 1.64 and VFA 1.78, both using the VFA  
media setting.  I tried the other media choices but couldn't get any  
higher with the HPR.  This is using the Epson driver and ABW mode.   
Probably need to do some fiddling with the driver controls or better  
yet just use QTR for the Hahnemuhle papers.  I haven't made any 2400  
QTR profiles yet for matte papers, so I don't know if a higher dmax  
is possible.

Carl
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Oct 22, 2005, at 2:46 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> Velvet Fine Art is simply rebranded Somerset. Though it is nice paper
> the Hahnemühle papers have always been able to get a higher dmax and
> ink load. In comparing Innova to Hahnemühle I would expect it to
> outperform Somerset as well.
> I'm not knocking Somerset, I've seen many nice prints on it, but
> something unusual must be going on with your tests. Perhaps there are
> other settings that would take better advantage of the other papers'
> capabilities.
> Somerset still has one of the nicest surfaces ever produced for our  
> use.
> Tyler
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets"
> <odets@c...> wrote:
>
>>
>> A friend has just sent me an unmanaged 51-step gray file printed from
>> his 2400 and I compared it with the same target printed with my 2400.
>> Both targets were printed on Velvet Fine Art, ABW Neutral (Darker).
>> For the 90, 92, 94, 96, 98 and 100 steps the measured values are  
>> shown
>> first for his printer and then in parentheses for my printer:
>>
>> 19.46 (19.38); 17.67 (17.60); 16.63 (16.41); 15.53 (15.48; 14.36
>> (14.47); 13.84 (13.83).
>>
>> So, it seems to me that the consistency between these two  
>> inexpensive,
>> uncalibrated printers is remarkable; and I would point out again that
>> the shadow separation, linearity and D-max of this paper seems much
>> better than anything else I have measured or than has been  
>> discussed on
>> the forum over the past few days.  My corresponding figures for  
>> the HPR
>> (VFA paper setting) are:
>>
>> 18.39, 17.63, 17.14, 16.94, 16.69, 16.80.
>>
>> Walt
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Tyler Boley

Very strange, something has changed with the paper then, or the 2400
does some kind of magic.
I've never seen a dmax that high from a pigment K on a coated fine art
paper.
Not questioning your result, just suprised.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield
<scho@m...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Tyler,
> 
> I had the same findings as Walt concerning VFA vs HPR dmax with the  
> 2400 and k3 MK ink.  HPR about 1.64 and VFA 1.78, both using the VFA  
> media setting.  I tried the other media choices but couldn't get any  
> higher with the HPR.  This is using the Epson driver and ABW mode.   
> Probably need to do some fiddling with the driver controls or better  
> yet just use QTR for the Hahnemuhle papers.  I haven't made any 2400  
> QTR profiles yet for matte papers, so I don't know if a higher dmax  
> is possible.
> 
> Carl
> 
> On Oct 22, 2005, at 2:46 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
> 
> > Velvet Fine Art is simply rebranded Somerset. Though it is nice paper
> > the Hahnemühle papers have always been able to get a higher dmax and
> > ink load. In comparing Innova to Hahnemühle I would expect it to
> > outperform Somerset as well.
> > I'm not knocking Somerset, I've seen many nice prints on it, but
> > something unusual must be going on with your tests. Perhaps there are
> > other settings that would take better advantage of the other papers'
> > capabilities.
> > Somerset still has one of the nicest surfaces ever produced for our  
> > use.
> > Tyler
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets"
> > <odets@c...> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> A friend has just sent me an unmanaged 51-step gray file printed from
> >> his 2400 and I compared it with the same target printed with my 2400.
> >> Both targets were printed on Velvet Fine Art, ABW Neutral (Darker).
> >> For the 90, 92, 94, 96, 98 and 100 steps the measured values are  
> >> shown
> >> first for his printer and then in parentheses for my printer:
> >>
> >> 19.46 (19.38); 17.67 (17.60); 16.63 (16.41); 15.53 (15.48; 14.36
> >> (14.47); 13.84 (13.83).
> >>
> >> So, it seems to me that the consistency between these two  
> >> inexpensive,
> >> uncalibrated printers is remarkable; and I would point out again that
> >> the shadow separation, linearity and D-max of this paper seems much
> >> better than anything else I have measured or than has been  
> >> discussed on
> >> the forum over the past few days.  My corresponding figures for  
> >> the HPR
> >> (VFA paper setting) are:
> >>
> >> 18.39, 17.63, 17.14, 16.94, 16.69, 16.80.
> >>
> >> Walt
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
> > ~-->
> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your  
> > home page
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> > ~->
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> > visiting this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> > to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> > from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> > group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines"  
> > in the Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL  
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Tyler Boley

No matter who does what where when with it, it used to perform the
same. Perhaps it has been changed.
T

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> My understanding is that St Cuthberts Mill ships the substrate and then
> Epson has its own (or more likely yet another third party) coating
and so
> performs much better than Somerset Velvet Enhanced.  I agree the
Somerset
> product isn't that great re density but has a nice finish.  I have a
couple
> of unused boxes tucked away somewhere - not bad ink blotter paper ;-)
> 
> 
> > From: Tyler Boley <tyler@t...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:46:22 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .
> > 
> > Velvet Fine Art is simply rebranded Somerset. Though it is nice paper
> > the Hahnemühle papers have always been able to get a higher dmax and
> > ink load. In comparing Innova to Hahnemühle I would expect it to
> > outperform Somerset as well.
> > I'm not knocking Somerset, I've seen many nice prints on it, but
> > something unusual must be going on with your tests. Perhaps there are
> > other settings that would take better advantage of the other papers'
> > capabilities.
> > Somerset still has one of the nicest surfaces ever produced for
our use.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > Tyler
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Steve Kale

Carl

I found I couldn't get anymore punch out of Epson MK on any of the three
non-Epson matte papers I have been working with:  HPR , Permajet Omega and
Permajet Alpha. Eboni picked up the slack.  I should take another look at
how Eboni goes on Epson Velvet Fine Art (and Somerset as a check) - albeit
my stock of those papers is a year (or more) old so if there has been a
change in then paper it won't be of much value.  Like I said, paper industry
folk are quite surprised at how good Epson is in getting their inks to
perform on their own papers.  FWIW I got results similar to you on HPR (and
worse on Alpha) before I switched to Eboni.

Steve

Re: [Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Carl Schofield

The VFA dmax is also the highest I've seen for cotton rag papers.   
Strange indeed, but there is more.  I just made an icc profile for  
Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Satin on the 2400 and measured a dmax of 1.74.   
This paper is a rather unique hybrid, but can work fine for some images.

Carl
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Oct 22, 2005, at 3:30 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> Very strange, something has changed with the paper then, or the 2400
> does some kind of magic.
> I've never seen a dmax that high from a pigment K on a coated fine art
> paper.
> Not questioning your result, just suprised.
> Tyler
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield
> <scho@m...> wrote:
>
>>
>> Tyler,
>>
>> I had the same findings as Walt concerning VFA vs HPR dmax with the
>> 2400 and k3 MK ink.  HPR about 1.64 and VFA 1.78, both using the VFA
>> media setting.  I tried the other media choices but couldn't get any
>> higher with the HPR.  This is using the Epson driver and ABW mode.
>> Probably need to do some fiddling with the driver controls or better
>> yet just use QTR for the Hahnemuhle papers.  I haven't made any 2400
>> QTR profiles yet for matte papers, so I don't know if a higher dmax
>> is possible.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> On Oct 22, 2005, at 2:46 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Velvet Fine Art is simply rebranded Somerset. Though it is nice  
>>> paper
>>> the Hahnemühle papers have always been able to get a higher dmax and
>>> ink load. In comparing Innova to Hahnemühle I would expect it to
>>> outperform Somerset as well.
>>> I'm not knocking Somerset, I've seen many nice prints on it, but
>>> something unusual must be going on with your tests. Perhaps there  
>>> are
>>> other settings that would take better advantage of the other papers'
>>> capabilities.
>>> Somerset still has one of the nicest surfaces ever produced for our
>>> use.
>>> Tyler
>>>
>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets"
>>> <odets@c...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> A friend has just sent me an unmanaged 51-step gray file printed  
>>>> from
>>>> his 2400 and I compared it with the same target printed with my  
>>>> 2400.
>>>> Both targets were printed on Velvet Fine Art, ABW Neutral (Darker).
>>>> For the 90, 92, 94, 96, 98 and 100 steps the measured values are
>>>> shown
>>>> first for his printer and then in parentheses for my printer:
>>>>
>>>> 19.46 (19.38); 17.67 (17.60); 16.63 (16.41); 15.53 (15.48; 14.36
>>>> (14.47); 13.84 (13.83).
>>>>
>>>> So, it seems to me that the consistency between these two
>>>> inexpensive,
>>>> uncalibrated printers is remarkable; and I would point out again  
>>>> that
>>>> the shadow separation, linearity and D-max of this paper seems much
>>>> better than anything else I have measured or than has been
>>>> discussed on
>>>> the forum over the past few days.  My corresponding figures for
>>>> the HPR
>>>> (VFA paper setting) are:
>>>>
>>>> 18.39, 17.63, 17.14, 16.94, 16.69, 16.80.
>>>>
>>>> Walt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
>>> ~-->
>>> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
>>> home page
>>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ~->
>>>
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
>>> resources as they are often being updated.
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
>>> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
>>> visiting this same page.
>>>
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
>>> to keep them short.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>>> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed
>>> from the membership without notice.
>>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
>>> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
>>> removed from the membership.
>>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules
>>> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the
>>> group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines"
>>> in the Files section:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>>
>>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
>>> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL
>>> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
>>> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
>>> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
>>> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL
>>> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
>>> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE
>>> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO
>>> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
>>> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
>>> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
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> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
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Re: [Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Steve Kale

Well all I can say is that I am looking at a sheet of each now.  They have a
different coating.  EVFA is much brighter with a slightly smoother finish.
Dmax with Eboni (using Adv B&W on my 4800) is L*=15.7 for EVFA and L*=22.3
for SVE  (each relatively soon after printing).
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:32:42 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .
> 
> No matter who does what where when with it, it used to perform the
> same. Perhaps it has been changed.
> T
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
>> 
>> My understanding is that St Cuthberts Mill ships the substrate and then
>> Epson has its own (or more likely yet another third party) coating
> and so
>> performs much better than Somerset Velvet Enhanced.  I agree the
> Somerset
>> product isn't that great re density but has a nice finish.  I have a
> couple
>> of unused boxes tucked away somewhere - not bad ink blotter paper ;-)

Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by wwodets

Greg-  Yes, that "small problem" (reversals in the deep shadows) is 
something I see a lot of with non-Epson papers.  I think that a slight 
reduction in ink limits (in the ABW, which Clayton has already 
suggested) seems to solve the problems.  I will reprofile the HPR 
(which I am using in addition to the VFA) with a 5% ink reduction.

Walt

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" 
<dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets" 
> <odets@c...> wrote:
> > My corresponding figures for the HPR (VFA paper setting) are:
> > 
> > 18.39, 17.63, 17.14, 16.94, 16.69, 16.80.
> > 
> > Walt
> >
> 
> Looks like a small problem with that last step, but at least it's 
> only 1 step, not several.
>

[Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Tyler Boley

then obviously they are different, I haven't used it in a long time.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> Well all I can say is that I am looking at a sheet of each now. 
They have a
> different coating.  EVFA is much brighter with a slightly smoother
finish.
> Dmax with Eboni (using Adv B&W on my 4800) is L*=15.7 for EVFA and
L*=22.3
> for SVE  (each relatively soon after printing).
> 
> 
> > From: Tyler Boley <tyler@t...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:32:42 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .
> > 
> > No matter who does what where when with it, it used to perform the
> > same. Perhaps it has been changed.
> > T
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> > <stevekale@b...> wrote:
> >> 
> >> My understanding is that St Cuthberts Mill ships the substrate
and then
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >> Epson has its own (or more likely yet another third party) coating
> > and so
> >> performs much better than Somerset Velvet Enhanced.  I agree the
> > Somerset
> >> product isn't that great re density but has a nice finish.  I have a
> > couple
> >> of unused boxes tucked away somewhere - not bad ink blotter paper ;-)
>

Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Clayton Jones

Hello Tyler,

>Velvet Fine Art is simply rebranded Somerset...the Hahnemühle 
>papers have always been able to get a higher dmax...

I don't know if VFA is rebranded Somerset or not, but in my relative
dmax tests (all done with Eboni BO), VFA is right up there with PR and
Dourian.  I haven't tested Somerset.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Tyler Boley

Right, clearly I'm not up to date on this paper at all. May have to
try it again...
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@c...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hello Tyler,
> 
> >Velvet Fine Art is simply rebranded Somerset...the Hahnemühle 
> >papers have always been able to get a higher dmax...
> 
> I don't know if VFA is rebranded Somerset or not, but in my relative
> dmax tests (all done with Eboni BO), VFA is right up there with PR and
> Dourian.  I haven't tested Somerset.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>

HPR Satin side note

2005-10-22 by Greg

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
<scho@m...> wrote:
>
> The VFA dmax is also the highest I've seen for cotton rag papers.   
> Strange indeed, but there is more.  I just made an icc profile for  
> Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Satin on the 2400 and measured a dmax of 
1.74.   
> This paper is a rather unique hybrid, but can work fine for some 
images.
> 

A side not to this... I received a message from Martin at Hahnemuhle 
USA that the HPR Satin is now available for dealers to order. So if 
you have been waiting for thr monopoly to end, it's here, contact 
your prefered dealer (I already sent a request to Jim at shades of 
paper, so you may or may not want to clog his email). If anyone needs 
more proof of this, I'll copy the entire message here.

Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Greg

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets" 
<odets@c...> wrote:
>
> Greg-  Yes, that "small problem" (reversals in the deep shadows) is 
> something I see a lot of with non-Epson papers.  I think that a 
slight 
> reduction in ink limits (in the ABW, which Clayton has already 
> suggested) seems to solve the problems.  I will reprofile the HPR 
> (which I am using in addition to the VFA) with a 5% ink reduction.
> 

Has anyone verified that the Epson Colorbase corrections do not get 
used in the ABW mode? This would make a very good test.

RE: [Digital BW] HPR Satin side note

2005-10-22 by Timothy Atherton

Thanks,

I'd been waiting for that. Lexjet acted like a real bunch of wankers when I
looked for information and samples about it, so I just decided not to order
any

tim a

Re: [Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .

2005-10-22 by Steve Kale

I am not sure that we have really figured REALLY out what Colorbase does.
Epson says it is NOT a linearization of the printer...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:18:35 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 2400 Shadow separation and linearity . . .
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets"
> <odets@c...> wrote:
>> 
>> Greg-  Yes, that "small problem" (reversals in the deep shadows) is
>> something I see a lot of with non-Epson papers.  I think that a
> slight 
>> reduction in ink limits (in the ABW, which Clayton has already
>> suggested) seems to solve the problems.  I will reprofile the HPR
>> (which I am using in addition to the VFA) with a 5% ink reduction.
>> 
> 
> Has anyone verified that the Epson Colorbase corrections do not get
> used in the ABW mode? This would make a very good test.
>

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