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Digital BW, The Print

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Re: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

Re: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

2005-11-07 by Tony Riley

How did you calibrate the monitors? Adobe Gamma or hardware device?
Have you tried using a test image file to judge monitor and print accuracy?
TonyR


On 07/11/2005 20:06:54, Jim Panzer (jimp@...) wrote:
> "Calibrated monitor/Dark prints", ha, sounds like a new reality show from
> the Fox network.  Anyway, I have recently purchased and printed quite a
> few
> prints with the Epson R2400, both color and B&W.  Also I just
> calibrated my
> monitors for the second time trying to figure out why my prints are so
> much
> darker then they are on screen.  I have two Dell LCD's and used the 6500k
> setting to calibrate by.  But still, the prints on my monitor have all
this
> shadow detail that just gets lost in the final print.  I have tried
applying
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> a curve to brighten the image just before I print but then I get ugly
> results with certain shots.  I am using the proper profiles and such also.
> So my question is; does anyone have any suggestions I could explore to try
> and resolve this issue.  I am going to try and do the step wedge and see
> what I get also.  It just seems silly that I have to drastically brighten
> images just before going to print in order to get accurate prints.  Thanks
> to all for any help you might be able to give.
> 
> Jim

RE: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

2005-11-07 by Jim Panzer

I used an EFI calibration tool/package, which looks exactly like the Macbeth
eye one device; we have it here at work.  But you know, I don't think I ever
disabled Adobe Gamma, I should try that huh.

A test image?  I have tried just eyeballing the print to the monitor, is
that sort of what you mean?  

Thanks Tony,
Jim
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony
Riley
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 1:35 PM
To: digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

How did you calibrate the monitors? Adobe Gamma or hardware device?
Have you tried using a test image file to judge monitor and print accuracy?
TonyR


On 07/11/2005 20:06:54, Jim Panzer (jimp@...) wrote:
> "Calibrated monitor/Dark prints", ha, sounds like a new reality show from
> the Fox network.  Anyway, I have recently purchased and printed quite a
> few
> prints with the Epson R2400, both color and B&W.  Also I just
> calibrated my
> monitors for the second time trying to figure out why my prints are so
> much
> darker then they are on screen.  I have two Dell LCD's and used the 6500k
> setting to calibrate by.  But still, the prints on my monitor have all
this
> shadow detail that just gets lost in the final print.  I have tried
applying
> a curve to brighten the image just before I print but then I get ugly
> results with certain shots.  I am using the proper profiles and such also.
> So my question is; does anyone have any suggestions I could explore to try
> and resolve this issue.  I am going to try and do the step wedge and see
> what I get also.  It just seems silly that I have to drastically brighten
> images just before going to print in order to get accurate prints.  Thanks
> to all for any help you might be able to give.
> 
> Jim





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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
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RE: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

2005-11-07 by Tony Riley

It's a good idea to use a test image with a 'known pedigree' such as the PDI
Target you can download from my website at
http://www.imageplace.co.uk/printertestimage.html

If the monitor is ok then the chances are you have some bad settings in
colour management or the printer driver.
If you are on a WINPC and have a broadband connection I can take a quick
look if you like to email me off list.

TonyR
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 07/11/2005 20:48:39, Jim Panzer (jimp@...) wrote:
> I used an EFI calibration tool/package, which looks exactly like the
> Macbeth
> eye one device; we have it here at work.  But you know, I
> don't think I ever
> disabled Adobe Gamma, I should try that huh.
> 
> A test image?  I have tried just eyeballing the print to the monitor, is
> that sort of what you mean?
> 
> Thanks Tony,
> Jim

RE: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

2005-11-07 by Tony Riley

You definitely need to disable AdobeGamma....remove the adobegammaloader.exe
shortcut from the startup menu.
Then do a clean monitor calibration afterwards.

TonyR
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 07/11/2005 20:48:39, Jim Panzer (jimp@...) wrote:
> I used an EFI calibration tool/package, which looks exactly like the
> Macbeth
> eye one device; we have it here at work.  But you know, I
> don't think I ever
> disabled Adobe Gamma, I should try that huh.

RE: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

2005-11-07 by Jim Panzer

That's makes sense, I didn't even think about it at the time, it's kind of
like using a profile then using printer color mngmt over the top of the
profile huh.  Thanks Tony, I will disable adobe gamma, then do a clean
profile like you suggested, I let you know how it turns out.

Jim
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony
Riley
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 2:04 PM
To: digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

You definitely need to disable AdobeGamma....remove the adobegammaloader.exe
shortcut from the startup menu.
Then do a clean monitor calibration afterwards.

TonyR

On 07/11/2005 20:48:39, Jim Panzer (jimp@...) wrote:
> I used an EFI calibration tool/package, which looks exactly like the
> Macbeth
> eye one device; we have it here at work.  But you know, I
> don't think I ever
> disabled Adobe Gamma, I should try that huh.





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
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- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

2005-11-07 by Jim Panzer

By "know print" you mean a print from another (correctly) profiled work
flow, then just compare mine to that, and if the prints looks similar, that
means the problem is on the monitor end?  So many variables...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William
Wilson
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 2:07 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

Hi Jim

If you print a know print through a profiled printer/media/inkset and
compare it against your monitor it will tell you if there is something amiss
with your monitor calibration.

William
  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jim Panzer
  Sent: 07 November 2005 20:07
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints


  "Calibrated monitor/Dark prints", ha, sounds like a new reality show from
  the Fox network.  Anyway, I have recently purchased and printed quite a
few
  prints with the Epson R2400, both color and B&W.  Also I just calibrated
my
  monitors for the second time trying to figure out why my prints are so
much
  darker then they are on screen.  I have two Dell LCD's and used the 6500k
  setting to calibrate by.  But still, the prints on my monitor have all
this
  shadow detail that just gets lost in the final print.  I have tried
applying
  a curve to brighten the image just before I print but then I get ugly
  results with certain shots.  I am using the proper profiles and such also.
  So my question is; does anyone have any suggestions I could explore to try
  and resolve this issue.  I am going to try and do the step wedge and see
  what I get also.  It just seems silly that I have to drastically brighten
  images just before going to print in order to get accurate prints.  Thanks
  to all for any help you might be able to give.

  Jim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

2005-11-07 by Tony Riley

A 'pedigreee' test image is one which is known to be numerically corect and
should display well on a calibrated monitor and print well thru a correctly
profiled printer path. The inage usually consists of a number of
elements..gray scale, flesh tones, memory colour objects etc so that it is
easy to make a simple assessment as to whether it 'looks good' or not.
Bear in mind that we do not directly match the monitor to the print, but
rather profile the monitor and printer so that they both accurately portray
the content of the file.

TonyR
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 07/11/2005 21:23:31, Jim Panzer (jimp@...) wrote:
> By "know print" you mean a print from another (correctly) profiled work
> flow, then just compare mine to that, and if the prints looks similar,
> that
> means the problem is on the monitor end?  So many variables...
>

RE: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

2005-11-07 by John Moody

Go to http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html for suggestions.

Best regards,
John Moody
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jim Panzer
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 3:49 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

I used an EFI calibration tool/package, which looks exactly like the Macbeth
eye one device; we have it here at work.  But you know, I don't think I ever
disabled Adobe Gamma, I should try that huh.

A test image?  I have tried just eyeballing the print to the monitor, is
that sort of what you mean?

Thanks Tony,
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony
Riley
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 1:35 PM
To: digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Calibrated monitor/Dark prints

How did you calibrate the monitors? Adobe Gamma or hardware device?
Have you tried using a test image file to judge monitor and print accuracy?
TonyR


On 07/11/2005 20:06:54, Jim Panzer (jimp@...) wrote:
> "Calibrated monitor/Dark prints", ha, sounds like a new reality show from
> the Fox network.  Anyway, I have recently purchased and printed quite a
> few
> prints with the Epson R2400, both color and B&W.  Also I just
> calibrated my
> monitors for the second time trying to figure out why my prints are so
> much
> darker then they are on screen.  I have two Dell LCD's and used the 6500k
> setting to calibrate by.  But still, the prints on my monitor have all
this
> shadow detail that just gets lost in the final print.  I have tried
applying
> a curve to brighten the image just before I print but then I get ugly
> results with certain shots.  I am using the proper profiles and such also.
> So my question is; does anyone have any suggestions I could explore to try
> and resolve this issue.  I am going to try and do the step wedge and see
> what I get also.  It just seems silly that I have to drastically brighten
> images just before going to print in order to get accurate prints.  Thanks
> to all for any help you might be able to give.
>
> Jim





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
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Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links







Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.




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