Digital BW, The Print

For B&W, is there any reason to pay more for the i1 Photo 

 

<http://usa.gretagmacbethstore.com/index.cfm/act/Catalog.cfm/catalogid/2406/
Subcategory/Eye%2DOne%20Solutions/category/Eye%2DOne/browse/null/MenuGroup/M
enu%20USA%20New/desc/Eye%2DOne%20Photo.htm> 

 

over the i1 Design

 

<http://usa.gretagmacbethstore.com/index.cfm/act/Catalog.cfm/catalogid/2403/
Subcategory/Eye%2DOne%20Solutions/category/Eye%2DOne/browse/null/MenuGroup/M
enu%20USA%20New/desc/Eye%2DOne%20Design.htm>   ?

 

It looks like the Design can have options added to bring it up to the Photo
version as needs arise.

 

Any opinions?

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For B&W probably not.  I'll also even bet that you can get the Design to
measure a full 9.18 colour chart quite easily...but no promises there!

> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:02:36 -0800
> To: DigitalB&WPrint <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Eye-One spectrophotometers
> 
> For B&W, is there any reason to pay more for the i1 Photo
> 
>  
> 
> <http://usa.gretagmacbethstore.com/index.cfm/act/Catalog.cfm/catalogid/2406/
> Subcategory/Eye%2DOne%20Solutions/category/Eye%2DOne/browse/null/MenuGroup/M
> enu%20USA%20New/desc/Eye%2DOne%20Photo.htm>
> 
>  
> 
> over the i1 Design
> 
>  
> 
> <http://usa.gretagmacbethstore.com/index.cfm/act/Catalog.cfm/catalogid/2403/
> Subcategory/Eye%2DOne%20Solutions/category/Eye%2DOne/browse/null/MenuGroup/M
> enu%20USA%20New/desc/Eye%2DOne%20Design.htm>   ?
> 
>  
> 
> It looks like the Design can have options added to bring it up to the Photo
> version as needs arise.
> 
>  
> 
> Any opinions?
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>

Paul,
I would call Chromix and have a long conversation. :-)
There are so many options, and some "upgrades" are so damn expensive they
are essentially not available to those of us on budgets, so you need to
think long and hard about what you really want, and get it complete the
first time.

There are old i1s, old-new i1s with teflon feet, and new i1s that can scan
faster, and so on.  Also, the i1 is actually a dongle to the software as
well, so some "upgrades" require exchanging the i1!

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Paul Roark
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 4:03 PM
To: DigitalB&WPrint
Subject: [Digital BW] Eye-One spectrophotometers

For B&W, is there any reason to pay more for the i1 Photo over the i1 Design
It looks like the Design can have options added to bring it up to the Photo
version as needs arise.


Any opinions?


Paul




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> For B&W probably not.  I'll also even bet that you can get the 
Design to
> measure a full 9.18 colour chart quite easily...but no promises 
there!

I tried a couple of different ways, and it would not do it. I could 
get it to display the 200+ chart, and print it, but it would not 
allow me to measure it.

There is no need to print the chart from Match (or its Display equivalent).
Print it from any application - just make sure it's not colour managed.  If
you rename the reference file to the one required it should be able to read
the larger reference file.  I'll bet the profile creation software is the
same.

> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:13:40 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Eye-One spectrophotometers
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
>> 
>> For B&W probably not.  I'll also even bet that you can get the
> Design to
>> measure a full 9.18 colour chart quite easily...but no promises
> there!
> 
> I tried a couple of different ways, and it would not do it. I could
> get it to display the 200+ chart, and print it, but it would not
> allow me to measure it.
> 
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody" 
<moodymz3@y...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> I would call Chromix and have a long conversation. :-)


ABSOLUTELY contact Chromix! Find out if they still have the $200 
competitive upgrade rebate. Order the i1 design, send in an old 
DTP22, receive a credit to your credit card for $200. The Design 
should come with a 50% off coupon to upgrade to the full RGB or CMYK 
software, you will still be missing the scanner module, camera 
module, etc. If you buy everything seperately, starting with the 
Design will be much more expensive.
Also make sure you get the revision B spectro (or newer?)!

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> There is no need to print the chart from Match (or its Display 
equivalent).
> Print it from any application - just make sure it's not colour 
managed.  If
> you rename the reference file to the one required it should be able 
to read
> the larger reference file.  I'll bet the profile creation software 
is the
> same.
> 
> 

That's the first thing I tried, it won't measure anything more than 
the 45 patches. I also tried editing some of the header information 
in the ref. file, and a couple other things. It looks like they 
locked it down pretty well, otherwise the software is exactly the 
same.

> It looks like the Design can have options added to bring it up to the Photo
> version as needs arise.
> Paul

Eye-One Design would be fine for QTR where you could measure density and such. But for 
RGB and CMYK you can only measure the smaller patch target and from what I have read the 
results are not that great.

Eye-One Photo can read the full 900+ target for RGB and only the smaller target for CMYK. 
There's more too...

Go to www.chromix.com it's described nicely.

http://www.chromix.com/ColorGear/Shop/ProductList.cxsa?refcode=cmpgen&-session=tx:
458A59F11b45925247Hth127CE97

$10 says you can get it to read the full 918 patch chart...  Anyone with
Design want to try a test?

> From: John Vitollo <jvlist@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:29:20 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Eye-One spectrophotometers
> 
>> It looks like the Design can have options added to bring it up to the Photo
>> version as needs arise.
>> Paul
> 
> Eye-One Design would be fine for QTR where you could measure density and such.
> But for 
> RGB and CMYK you can only measure the smaller patch target and from what I
> have read the 
> results are not that great.
> 
> Eye-One Photo can read the full 900+ target for RGB and only the smaller
> target for CMYK. 
> There's more too...
> 
> Go to www.chromix.com it's described nicely.
> 
> http://www.chromix.com/ColorGear/Shop/ProductList.cxsa?refcode=cmpgen&-session
> =tx:
> 458A59F11b45925247Hth127CE97
>

Might have lost my $10 already!

So you took the correct reference file for your 918 printed target, renamed
it so that it's the file name expected by Design and placed it in the right
directory and it still didn't work?

> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:26:02 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Eye-One spectrophotometers
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
>> 
>> There is no need to print the chart from Match (or its Display
> equivalent).
>> Print it from any application - just make sure it's not colour
> managed.  If
>> you rename the reference file to the one required it should be able
> to read
>> the larger reference file.  I'll bet the profile creation software
> is the
>> same.
>> 
>> 
> 
> That's the first thing I tried, it won't measure anything more than
> the 45 patches. I also tried editing some of the header information
> in the ref. file, and a couple other things. It looks like they
> locked it down pretty well, otherwise the software is exactly the
> same.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> $10 says you can get it to read the full 918 patch chart...  Anyone 
with
> Design want to try a test?
> 


Sure what do you want to try? I have tried to rename the ref. file, 
and that did not work. Anything else you want me to try and I'll try 
it. If you want to keep it private so that GMB doesn't "fix" any 
flaws that may be found, please feel free to email me off list.

For anyone else reading this, the i1 spectro is supported by most 
current and many past profiling applications, in addition it is 
supported by the Xrite Utility Colorport, which can open up some 
other applications that did not (fully) support this spectro. What I 
was told by someone at Chromix was that the Design is the cheapest 
way to buy the i1 spectro.

One other note:
I think that the i1 spectro is too heavy to be used with most LCD 
monitors, so your results for that may not be as good as the smaller 
(lighter) Display puck.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> Might have lost my $10 already!
> 
> So you took the correct reference file for your 918 printed target, 
renamed
> it so that it's the file name expected by Design and placed it in 
the right
> directory and it still didn't work?
> 
> 

Yes, that and the 200+ patch target too. There is something else that 
is keeping it from working. What I haven't tried is measuring the 
larger target and saving a text file (from measure tool or something 
else) and opening that file to see if it would work.

When I tried to measure the renamed ref. file, the 45 patch target 
was expected. I searched for any other instance of the 45 patch ref. 
file, but couldn't find any others. I think they must have hard coded 
the charts into the application somewhere, which still doesn't mean 
there isn't a way to get around the protection.

Hmmm.  Will drop you a line tomorrow.  Late here in London.  BTW I have no
problems with the i1 on my LCD - just dangle the wait over the other side
and twist the spectro into the holder and you're away (it helps to have the
cable pushed toward the display and weighted so that the holder sits flat
with the display surface).

> From: Greg <dfaprinting@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 00:10:54 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Eye-One spectrophotometers
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
>> 
>> $10 says you can get it to read the full 918 patch chart...  Anyone
> with
>> Design want to try a test?
>> 
> 
> 
> Sure what do you want to try? I have tried to rename the ref. file,
> and that did not work. Anything else you want me to try and I'll try
> it. If you want to keep it private so that GMB doesn't "fix" any
> flaws that may be found, please feel free to email me off list.
> 
> For anyone else reading this, the i1 spectro is supported by most
> current and many past profiling applications, in addition it is
> supported by the Xrite Utility Colorport, which can open up some
> other applications that did not (fully) support this spectro. What I
> was told by someone at Chromix was that the Design is the cheapest
> way to buy the i1 spectro.
> 
> One other note:
> I think that the i1 spectro is too heavy to be used with most LCD
> monitors, so your results for that may not be as good as the smaller
> (lighter) Display puck.
>

Wait, wait, wait - it's a weight!  Duh

> From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 00:17:50 +0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Conversation: [Digital BW] Re: Eye-One spectrophotometers
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Eye-One spectrophotometers
> 
> Hmmm.  Will drop you a line tomorrow.  Late here in London.  BTW I have no
> problems with the i1 on my LCD - just dangle the wait over the other side and
> twist the spectro into the holder and you're away (it helps to have the cable
> pushed toward the display and weighted so that the holder sits flat with the
> display surface).
>

The Eye-One Design is designed more for graphic designers and CMYK output
whereas the Eye-One Photo is designed more for photographers and RGB output
and can be expanded to include the ability to calibrate other devices like
scanners and cameras.

I was recently informed by GretagMacbeth that they are releasing new
versions of the Eye-One line within the next week or two.  The upgrades will
increase the price of all the Eye-One packages by $100, and the remaining
inventory of current Eye-One devices will be reduced significantly after the
release of the new line.


Michael J. Pach
AdventureCam Photo
719-260-6637
mike@...
www.adventurecamphoto.com
AOL IM: mikep1967


For B&W, is there any reason to pay more for the i1 Photo over the i1
Design?

It looks like the Design can have options added to bring it up to the Photo

version as needs arise.


Any opinions?

--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "AdventureCam 
Photo" <email@a...> wrote:
>
> The Eye-One Design is designed more for graphic designers and CMYK 
output
> whereas the Eye-One Photo is designed more for photographers and 
RGB output
> and can be expanded to include the ability to calibrate other 
devices like
> scanners and cameras.
> 


Having tried the Design for CMYK (on two different RIPs, both 
linearized and limited properly), I have to say that I have never 
seen a more ugly profile than the one it generated. I will still say 
that the only reason to buy a Design package is if you need the 
spectro for some other application.

And thanks for the tip about the new GMB products! Considering that I 
bought my Design only 9 months ago it seems a little strange to be 
getting new hardware, but I guess that never stopped any of the 
printer companies.

The GM strategy is to make a few firmware changes and then sell the  
same hardware again as "New and Improved".  If your instrument is not  
current you will have to buy a new one or trade in the old one to get  
the  latest firmware upgrades.

On Nov 18, 2005, at 9:45 AM, Greg wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "AdventureCam
> Photo" <email@a...> wrote:
>>
>> The Eye-One Design is designed more for graphic designers and CMYK
> output
>> whereas the Eye-One Photo is designed more for photographers and
> RGB output
>> and can be expanded to include the ability to calibrate other
> devices like
>> scanners and cameras.
>>
>
>
> Having tried the Design for CMYK (on two different RIPs, both
> linearized and limited properly), I have to say that I have never
> seen a more ugly profile than the one it generated. I will still say
> that the only reason to buy a Design package is if you need the
> spectro for some other application.
>
> And thanks for the tip about the new GMB products! Considering that I
> bought my Design only 9 months ago it seems a little strange to be
> getting new hardware, but I guess that never stopped any of the
> printer companies.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
<scho@m...> wrote:
>
> The GM strategy is to make a few firmware changes and then sell the  
> same hardware again as "New and Improved".  If your instrument is 
not  
> current you will have to buy a new one or trade in the old one to 
get  
> the  latest firmware upgrades.
> 

I'd really like to think that they are at least upgrading the micro 
controller to something that is faster, but you're probably right.

I have been following this thread with some interest because I was 
about to purchase a i1 on ebay.  Is there really that much difference 
between the different versions for RGB or CMYK?  The software is not a 
problem since I already have Monaco Profiler which can print and read 
the necessary targets with a i1.  

Thanks,

Barry

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tflyfish2002" 
<barry@s...> wrote:
>
> I have been following this thread with some interest because I was 
> about to purchase a i1 on ebay.  Is there really that much 
difference 
> between the different versions for RGB or CMYK?  The software is 
not a 
> problem since I already have Monaco Profiler which can print and 
read 
> the necessary targets with a i1.  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Barry
>

What you need to know:

The Profiler application will not compensate for optical brighteners 
in paper! You will want a spectrophotometer with a UV filter to use 
with Profiler. Owning Profiler you have a MUCH more powerful software 
solution than what comes with the i1 photo package. You would be much 
better off buying an i1 Design with the UV filter spectro. Chromix 
still lists a rebate of up to $200 when you trade in an old spectro 
to buy an i1 package!!!