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2005-11-24 by scott_now_coming
If you haven't seen this yet, check it out. Also, make sure you look at the movies. This innovation is truly awesome! Hopefully, they can add shifts and tilts! http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/lfcamera/ Scott
2005-11-24 by John Moody
I dont see any use for it by fine art photographers. The optical path is messy; adds losses and distortions by splitting the incoming rays into many more rays. A firmware update, to add focus bracketing on existing dSLRs would be of more use to us, IMO, and cost nothing. On the surface it looks very interesting, but after looking at the actual method used, I doubt it will have any significant commercial success. Best regards, John Moody
-----Original Message----- From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of scott_now_coming Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 12:13 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] OT: This is the future of Digital Cameras If you haven't seen this yet, check it out. Also, make sure you look at the movies. This innovation is truly awesome! Hopefully, they can add shifts and tilts! http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/lfcamera/ Scott [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2005-11-25 by Paul Roark
Very interesting, but it also sounds very complex and expensive. I assume most of us are using multiple-frame zone-focusing now to increase DOF. I've been rather surprised that some enterprising software writer has not made a program that can automatically combine the multiple frames of these current-technology shots. Conceptually, it's an easy thing to do. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
> -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > scott_now_coming > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 9:13 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Digital BW] OT: This is the future of Digital Cameras > > If you haven't seen this yet, check it out. > > Also, make sure you look at the movies. > > This innovation is truly awesome! > > Hopefully, they can add shifts and tilts! > > http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/lfcamera/ > > > Scott > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files > section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >
2005-11-25 by Barbara Woolner
Paul, there is such a program, HeliconFocus. http://www.heliconfocus.com/pages/index.php?focus_overview I've haven't used it personally but have seen the results. Impressive. Barbara Woolner >I assume most of us are using multiple-frame zone-focusing now to increase DOF. I've been rather surprised that some enterprising software writer has not made a program that can automatically combine the multiple frames of these current-technology shots. Paul> www.PaulRoark.com > -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > scott_now_coming > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 9:13 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Digital BW] OT: This is the future of Digital Cameras > > If you haven't seen this yet, check it out. > > Also, make sure you look at the movies. > > This innovation is truly awesome! > > Hopefully, they can add shifts and tilts! > > http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/lfcamera/ > > > Scott > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files > section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. Yahoo! Groups Links
2005-11-25 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Barbara Woolner" <bfwoolner@c...> wrote: > > Paul, there is such a program, HeliconFocus. > http://www.heliconfocus.com/pages/index.php?focus_overview > Looks interesting. The lifetime price of the pro isn't too bad either.
2005-11-25 by koloshor
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote: > > Very interesting, but it also sounds very complex and expensive. Yup. Just like all digital cameras were, 15 years ago. Give plenoptics another decade. and it will be mainsteam. > I assume most of us are using multiple-frame zone-focusing now to increase > DOF. I've been rather surprised that some enterprising software writer has > not made a program that can automatically combine the multiple frames of > these current-technology shots. Conceptually, it's an easy thing to do. Actually, it' pretty dang hard. A lot of frequency domain math and interpolation. Just the decision logic for layer selection has been the topic of dozens of excellent papers and a few Ph.D. theses. But that hasn't stopped many people from doing it. The technique is commonly referred to as "focus stacking". The program that I use most often for this is Mr. Hadley's amazing bit of freeware called "CombineZ". It takes a bit of learning, but has outstanding results. http://www.hadleyweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.htm "Helicon Focus" is an excellent (and affordable) commercial image stacking product, and if you get the "pro" version, it comes bundled with the (also excellent) noise removal tool "Helicon Filter". I don't think it's as powerful as CombineZ, but it is "drag and drop" easy. http://helicon.com.ua/pages/ Been meaning to check out a couple of other tools: Syncroscopy Auto-Montage http://www.syncroscopy.com/syncroscopy/automontageshort.asp And Acclaim "Focus Magic", which is a single image blind deconvolver, not a stacker, but can tell you some pretty interesting things about what went wrong with an image and how to shoot it better next time (not that Acclaim things that the right way to use their software, mind you). http://www.focusmagic.com/ And, here's an excellent article about stacking workflows, which also has a good comparison of CombineZ and Helicon Focus. http://www.outbackphoto.com/workflow/wf_72/essay.html And three of my favorite focus stacks, two cactus flowers and a spider. All are macros at between 4x and 10x magnification, DOF is under 0.5mm, so stacking was necessary to get the DOF up into the 2-4mm range of these pictures. http://www.swissarmyfork.com/images/2004-01-24-0086-stack.jpg http://www.swissarmyfork.com/images/2005-01-16-0004-stack.jpg http://www.swissarmyfork.com/images/2005-05-07-0010-stack.jpg Ciao! Joe
2005-11-25 by koloshor
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody" <moodymz3@y...> wrote: > > I don't see any use for it by fine art photographers. The optical path is > messy; adds losses and distortions by splitting the incoming rays into many > more rays. Actually, the "losses" are tractable, the information is recovered in the recombination. And it reduces distortion, virtually eliminating sensor angular effects like purple fringing, and adding ways of compensationg for vector seperable distortions such as comma or spherical aberration. > A firmware update, to add focus bracketing on existing dSLRs > would be of more use to us, IMO, and cost nothing. And it would be worth every penny of... nothing. DSLRs with "screwdriver" drives (Nikon, Pentax, Minolta) can't focus bracket at all because of mechanical backlash and the low precision of the distance reporting from the lenses. Micromotor USM (most low to mid cost Canon lenses, and all Oly 4/3 lenses) have the same restriction. Ring USM (Higher end Canon, some Nikon AF-S) can do it, but slip sometimes screws it up, you can't count on it. And yes, I'm "that" Joe Wisniewski. I have done this before for a four camera array scanning telescope. We ended up having to do a "return to zero" between each successive shot. Slow, and it generated a lot of torque vibration with the whole array focusing. As far as using multiple "focus stackin" in day to day photography, it's not all that easy (I speak from years of experience). You can't use it on living subjects (obviously) because they won't align in the different layers. Even breathing throws the stack off. You can't use it on a landscape unless the wind is very calm that day (forget it if there's a lake or pond in the scene). And you can't really build it into a DSLR, because there's so much math. And it's not "pretty" math. The math to combine focus layers is "soft", there are decision algorithms, in addition to a lot of "hard" math dealign with the alignment (because at the pixel level, camera and lens shift between shots, even on a sturdy tripod) and the resizing (because refocusing a lens changes the image coverage angle, and may even cause parallax errors due to movement of the entrance pupil). Plenoptics is all "hard" math, no decisions, just calculation. > On the surface it looks very interesting, but after looking at the actual > method used, I doubt it will have any significant commercial success. Actually, from a technology forecasting standpoint, it looks like the FOM is holding, and plenoptics will be commercially viable within 10 years.