Digital BW, The Print

For those forum members using a mac; does it matter (in terms of WYSIWYG) where one 
places the monitor brightnes slider prior to profiling with iOne?
Marc

You should target the luminance according to the instructions in the i1
software.

> From: marcsienicki <marcsienicki@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:32:11 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Setting brightness level on a mac display
> 
> For those forum members using a mac; does it matter (in terms of WYSIWYG)
> where one 
> places the monitor brightnes slider prior to profiling with iOne?
> Marc
> 
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> You should target the luminance according to the instructions in the i1
> software.

I don't exactly know what i1 software "instructs" about the white
luminance target values, but IMHO it's always best to target the
luminance for what works _best_ for your environment rather than
accept the calibration software's (possibly) arbitrary instructions.
Here's what one reviewer
(http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/monitor_calibration_tools.htm)
wrote about the i1 software's luminance setting procedure:

"The recommended luminance levels are often too high; drop down to a
more sensible value if necessary. A quibble is that the possible
luminance values are given in steps of 10. This precludes selecting
useful values for CRT monitors such as 85 or 95 cd/m^2. Avoid the
"Easy" mode, as this chooses the default, overly bright settings."

Keeping that in mind, if the goal is to have a setting that's "best
for WYSIWYG", the luminance commonly needs to be aimed at a relatively
low value; perhaps something not more than 140 cd/m2 (unless you work
in an extremely brighly lit environment and  evaluate your prints
under _very_ bright lighting). What's best for you will require some
trial (printing) and error (compare and readjust) to settle on a good
luminance. Compared to good ol' CRTs, adjusting an LCD monitor to
sufficiently low white luminance values can be a problem (depending on
make and model).

Phil

 
> 
> > From: marcsienicki <marcsienicki@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:32:11 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Setting brightness level on a mac display
> > 
> > For those forum members using a mac; does it matter (in terms of
WYSIWYG)

> > where one 
> > places the monitor brightnes slider prior to profiling with iOne?
> > Marc
> > 
> >
>

I would not consider 140 low.  It is also the luminance for an LCD
recommended by GM.  At a D50 white point, my Apple 23in HD Cinema Display
barely pulls 115...WYSIWYG is much more related to white point than
luminance.  Either way, as a starting point GM probably know something about
the issue and without a good reason for doing otherwise I would suggest
following their advice.

> From: Phil Rose <pjrose@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 05:04:50 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Setting brightness level on a mac display
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
>> 
>> You should target the luminance according to the instructions in the i1
>> software.
> 
> I don't exactly know what i1 software "instructs" about the white
> luminance target values, but IMHO it's always best to target the
> luminance for what works _best_ for your environment rather than
> accept the calibration software's (possibly) arbitrary instructions.
> Here's what one reviewer
> (http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/monitor_calibration_tools.htm)
> wrote about the i1 software's luminance setting procedure:
> 
> "The recommended luminance levels are often too high; drop down to a
> more sensible value if necessary. A quibble is that the possible
> luminance values are given in steps of 10. This precludes selecting
> useful values for CRT monitors such as 85 or 95 cd/m^2. Avoid the
> "Easy" mode, as this chooses the default, overly bright settings."
> 
> Keeping that in mind, if the goal is to have a setting that's "best
> for WYSIWYG", the luminance commonly needs to be aimed at a relatively
> low value; perhaps something not more than 140 cd/m2 (unless you work
> in an extremely brighly lit environment and  evaluate your prints
> under _very_ bright lighting). What's best for you will require some
> trial (printing) and error (compare and readjust) to settle on a good
> luminance. Compared to good ol' CRTs, adjusting an LCD monitor to
> sufficiently low white luminance values can be a problem (depending on
> make and model).
> 
> Phil

I'd agree with Phil's comments on luminance.  I find 140 cd way too 
bright for my viewing environment (and probably most).  I use 100 
cd/m2 on my LCD at home.  My goal is to have a pure white document in 
Photoshop match the brightness of a sheet of white paper displayed 
under my D50 viewing light.  If they are very different, you will 
have a terrible time getting a good monitor to print match.  It 
affects the perception of saturation, density and contrast.  Just try 
viewing a print in brighter then darker light and see how it affects 
the result.  Big difference.

Another reason I choose a lower luminance level is that I work on 
both LCDs and CRTs.  I typically set my CRT at 90-95 cd.  Much 
brighter than that and you begin to radically shorten its useful 
life.  So, I want them to be close for the sake of consistency.  Most 
the commercial printers I work with shoot for a luminance level 
between 85 to 95 cd/m2.  This seems to keep the contrast range on the 
display in line with the expected contrast of the printed piece.  

And yes, lower monitor brightness usually necessitates lower lighting 
levels in your workspace.  

Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Rose" 
<pjrose@f...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
> >
> > You should target the luminance according to the instructions in 
the i1
> > software.
> 
> I don't exactly know what i1 software "instructs" about the white
> luminance target values, but IMHO it's always best to target the
> luminance for what works _best_ for your environment rather than
> accept the calibration software's (possibly) arbitrary instructions.
> Here's what one reviewer
> (http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/monitor_calibration_tools.htm)
> wrote about the i1 software's luminance setting procedure:
> 
> "The recommended luminance levels are often too high; drop down to a
> more sensible value if necessary. A quibble is that the possible
> luminance values are given in steps of 10. This precludes selecting
> useful values for CRT monitors such as 85 or 95 cd/m^2. Avoid the
> "Easy" mode, as this chooses the default, overly bright settings."
> 
> Keeping that in mind, if the goal is to have a setting that's "best
> for WYSIWYG", the luminance commonly needs to be aimed at a 
relatively
> low value; perhaps something not more than 140 cd/m2 (unless you 
work
> in an extremely brighly lit environment and  evaluate your prints
> under _very_ bright lighting). What's best for you will require some
> trial (printing) and error (compare and readjust) to settle on a 
good
> luminance. Compared to good ol' CRTs, adjusting an LCD monitor to
> sufficiently low white luminance values can be a problem (depending 
on
> make and model).
> 
> Phil
> 
>  
> > 
> > > From: marcsienicki <marcsienicki@y...>
> > > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:32:11 -0000
> > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [Digital BW] Setting brightness level on a mac display
> > > 
> > > For those forum members using a mac; does it matter (in terms of
> WYSIWYG)
> > > where one 
> > > places the monitor brightnes slider prior to profiling with 
iOne?

> > > Marc
> > > 
> > >
> >
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> I would not consider 140 low.

Nor would I, which is why I stated "no higher than 140". You'd be
amazed at how many LCD users insist that 300-350 cd/m2 is the
_minimum_ white luminance that they could ever consider using (in
discussions about printing WYSIWYG). They eventually "come around" to
using values quite a bit lower, but only after much agonizing over
prints that are "too dark".

What motivated my comment was that your advice (i.e., to just follow
"instructions in the i1 software") appeared a bit cavalier about the
luminance level and carried, IMHO, an implication that it was of
relatively minor importance. Sorry if I misinterpreted your comment.


>At a D50 white point, my Apple 23in HD Cinema Display
> barely pulls 115...WYSIWYG is much more related to white point than
> luminance.

But now you've _explicitly_ made what I believe to be a dubious
assertion. Of course the white point is very important--all the more
so if one is printing _only_ in B&W . However as a general aspect of
WYSIWYG, the luminance level will certainly not be as minor a
consideration as you seem to imply (again). 

>  Either way, as a starting point GM probably know something about
> the issue and without a good reason for doing otherwise I would
>suggest following their advice.

Ahh, "as a starting point", yes, now we can fully agree.

Phil