Digital BW, The Print

Hi,

I am starting my b&w printing with Epson 3000 and MIS Full Spectrum
Neutral Inks. After a few test prints I really like the neutral tone
of the inks, and I think I will be able to live with the 3000's larger
dot size...

BUT, I am getting some disturbing microbanding (dark thin lines) that
show at closer inspection. If there are Epson 3000 users on the list:
how are you avoiding this?

My nozzle checks are perfect, and I have made the head alignment
several times using the actual paper I'm printing on. I think the
Epson driver I'm using is the latest version.

Would a software RIP correct this, and if so, which one should I try?

Thanks
fotojali

fotojali wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am starting my b&w printing with Epson 3000 and MIS Full Spectrum
>Neutral Inks. After a few test prints I really like the neutral tone
>of the inks, and I think I will be able to live with the 3000's larger
>dot size...
>
>BUT, I am getting some disturbing microbanding (dark thin lines) that
>show at closer inspection. If there are Epson 3000 users on the list:
>how are you avoiding this?
>
>My nozzle checks are perfect, and I have made the head alignment
>several times using the actual paper I'm printing on. I think the
>Epson driver I'm using is the latest version.
>
>Would a software RIP correct this, and if so, which one should I try?
>
>Thanks
>fotojali
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Hi
We are an authorized service center for Epson .I work on allot of 
3000's.Nozzle check should be printed on good photo paper. Nozzle 
pattern should be inspected with a 10x loop.All nozzle lines should be 
evenly spaced all the dots on the line should be same size.There are 
other adjustments that should be printed and adjusted if needed these 
adjustments are in my service program.Make sure the platen roller and 
paper guide are clean a build up of ink on the platen roller can cause 
paper movement problems.
Joe
Laguna Service Inc
81 Moore Street
Hackensack,NJ,07601
201-342-2200
http://www.lagunaservice.com

Small world...Just wanted to give two thumbs up to Laguna's Epson service. I and my 
clients have used them on a number of occasions with excellent results. They know about 
quad priniting, CISs and how we like to abuse our Epsons.

I'm not affiliated with Laguna in any way.

> Hi
> We are an authorized service center for Epson .I work on allot of 
> 3000's.Nozzle check should be printed on good photo paper. Nozzle 
> pattern should be inspected with a 10x loop.All nozzle lines should be 
> evenly spaced all the dots on the line should be same size.There are 
> other adjustments that should be printed and adjusted if needed these 
> adjustments are in my service program.Make sure the platen roller and 
> paper guide are clean a build up of ink on the platen roller can cause 
> paper movement problems.
> Joe
> Laguna Service Inc
> 81 Moore Street
> Hackensack,NJ,07601
> 201-342-2200
> http://www.lagunaservice.com
>

Hi Joe;

I believe we have discussed the subject of microbanding re: the 
1280; what has your experience been with the R1800? I'm on my fourth 
one of these, and all of them have had banding in at least three 
channels, right out of the box with Epson inks. Is this curable? 

Steve Karafyllakis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Cettina 
<jcettina@l...> wrote:
> Hi
> We are an authorized service center for Epson .I work on allot of 
> 3000's.Nozzle check should be printed on good photo paper. Nozzle 
> pattern should be inspected with a 10x loop.All nozzle lines 
should be 
> evenly spaced all the dots on the line should be same size.There 
are 
> other adjustments that should be printed and adjusted if needed 
these 
> adjustments are in my service program.Make sure the platen roller 
and 
> paper guide are clean a build up of ink on the platen roller can 
cause 

> paper movement problems.
> Joe
> Laguna Service Inc
> 81 Moore Street
> Hackensack,NJ,07601
> 201-342-2200
> http://www.lagunaservice.com
>

I'll ditto the two thumbs up

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Vitollo" <jvlist@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 3000 microbandig


Small world...Just wanted to give two thumbs up to Laguna's Epson service. I 
and my
clients have used them on a number of occasions with excellent results. They 
know about
quad priniting, CISs and how we like to abuse our Epsons.

I'm not affiliated with Laguna in any way.

> Hi
> We are an authorized service center for Epson .I work on allot of
> 3000's.Nozzle check should be printed on good photo paper. Nozzle
> pattern should be inspected with a 10x loop.All nozzle lines should be
> evenly spaced all the dots on the line should be same size.There are
> other adjustments that should be printed and adjusted if needed these
> adjustments are in my service program.Make sure the platen roller and
> paper guide are clean a build up of ink on the platen roller can cause
> paper movement problems.
> Joe
> Laguna Service Inc
> 81 Moore Street
> Hackensack,NJ,07601
> 201-342-2200
> http://www.lagunaservice.com
>








Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

You will get microbanding due to inacurate paper advance with the
thick papers.
This may or may not be what you are experiencing, but be sure and test
it with a paper under 250gsm or so.
That's the only catch with a 3000, crappy paper advance.
Regarding dot size, I'd suggest a good partioned aproach using QTR.
The dots will become very untintrusive if visible at all.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "fotojali"
<jporkkala@y...> wrote:

>
> Hi,
> 
> I am starting my b&w printing with Epson 3000 and MIS Full Spectrum
> Neutral Inks. After a few test prints I really like the neutral tone
> of the inks, and I think I will be able to live with the 3000's larger
> dot size...
> 
> BUT, I am getting some disturbing microbanding (dark thin lines) that
> show at closer inspection. If there are Epson 3000 users on the list:
> how are you avoiding this?
> 
> My nozzle checks are perfect, and I have made the head alignment
> several times using the actual paper I'm printing on. I think the
> Epson driver I'm using is the latest version.
> 
> Would a software RIP correct this, and if so, which one should I try?
> 
> Thanks
> fotojali
>

> ...
> You will get microbanding due to inacurate paper advance with the
> thick papers.
> This may or may not be what you are experiencing, but ...
> 
> 

I found with mine that Epson Enhanced Matte would feed from the front tray.
With letter size for testing, it worked very well.  For 16 x 20 I'd cut a
piece from a 24" roll, using the full width of the roll.  I'd then lay the
piece of paper between 2 dampened Kodak blotter papers for a minute so that
is was just slightly dampened.  This took the curl out of the paper and
allowed it to feed from the front tray easily.

One thing that appeared to be a factor in my experience (and some 3000s seem
to be better than others in this respect) was that the paper needed as much
contact with the main roller as possible.  As such, the extra length of a
24" paper cut from the roll avoided banding at the end of the print.
Additionally, the paper would be more likely to band if it was fed from the
rear, I believe due to the less contact the paper would have with the
roller.

While I have not used a 3000 for a while, one thinner paper that printed
very well with the machine was a beta Premier Art Premium Matte that I was
testing at the time.  It had an excellent dmax, was very affordable, and,
unlike EEM, was acid free.

By the way, there are Photoshop image adjustment curves for partitioning the
UT-FS inks.  I can send them off list if you're interested.

Good luck with the 3000.  It is still a viable way to make very good 16 x 20
prints.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I don't think it's the paper thickness because I tried this with
Archival Matte.

But I downloaded QuadTone RIP and tried it (first time ever) and made
a few quick tests using "1440 super" resolution and different dither
algorithms. And the banding was gone with every dithering settings
(except with "very fast" which was awful). The prints were grainier,
but I kinda like it, it's like "digital Tri-X" which someone mentioned
here earlier, maybe combined with Rodinal ;-).

I'm just learning QTR, but it could be the solution, or .. ?

--fotojali

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, "Tyler Boley"
<tyler@t...> wrote:

>
> You will get microbanding due to inacurate paper advance with the
> thick papers.
> This may or may not be what you are experiencing, but be sure and test
> it with a paper under 250gsm or so.
> That's the only catch with a 3000, crappy paper advance.
> Regarding dot size, I'd suggest a good partioned aproach using QTR.
> The dots will become very untintrusive if visible at all.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "fotojali"
> <jporkkala@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I am starting my b&w printing with Epson 3000 and MIS Full Spectrum
> > Neutral Inks. After a few test prints I really like the neutral tone
> > of the inks, and I think I will be able to live with the 3000's larger
> > dot size...
> > 
> > BUT, I am getting some disturbing microbanding (dark thin lines) that
> > show at closer inspection. If there are Epson 3000 users on the list:
> > how are you avoiding this?
> > 
> > My nozzle checks are perfect, and I have made the head alignment
> > several times using the actual paper I'm printing on. I think the
> > Epson driver I'm using is the latest version.
> > 
> > Would a software RIP correct this, and if so, which one should I try?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > fotojali
> >
>

Thanks Paul, I'd like to try the UT-FS curves...

--fotojali


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> > ...
> > You will get microbanding due to inacurate paper advance with the
> > thick papers.
> > This may or may not be what you are experiencing, but ...
> > 
> > 
> 
> I found with mine that Epson Enhanced Matte would feed from the
front tray.
> With letter size for testing, it worked very well.  For 16 x 20 I'd
cut a
> piece from a 24" roll, using the full width of the roll.  I'd then
lay the
> piece of paper between 2 dampened Kodak blotter papers for a minute
so that
> is was just slightly dampened.  This took the curl out of the paper and
> allowed it to feed from the front tray easily.
> 
> One thing that appeared to be a factor in my experience (and some
3000s seem
> to be better than others in this respect) was that the paper needed
as much
> contact with the main roller as possible.  As such, the extra length
of a
> 24" paper cut from the roll avoided banding at the end of the print.
> Additionally, the paper would be more likely to band if it was fed
from the
> rear, I believe due to the less contact the paper would have with the
> roller.
> 
> While I have not used a 3000 for a while, one thinner paper that printed
> very well with the machine was a beta Premier Art Premium Matte that
I was
> testing at the time.  It had an excellent dmax, was very affordable,
and,
> unlike EEM, was acid free.
> 
> By the way, there are Photoshop image adjustment curves for
partitioning the
> UT-FS inks.  I can send them off list if you're interested.
> 
> Good luck with the 3000.  It is still a viable way to make very good
16 x 20

> prints.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Using QTR with a quad ink set, without correctly configured ink
descriptor files and curves, etc., will not help you get the most from
this setup.
It would be worth asking on the quadtone RIP list to see if anyone
there has 3000 quad ink QTR experience. I did it, but so long ago that
the setup I came up with is not relevant. I don't even have it any more.
You should be able to overcome the effect you see and get very smooth
prints. That's the whole point of using quad inksets, but they need to
be used correctly to get the benifits. As Paul suggested some curves
for use with the RGB driver will work as well.

But... regarding paper advance. print a 16x20 inch thin line box (A
rectangle of tone is a waste of ink) and measure it on the paper. If
it is not exactly 20" long, the paper advance is incorrect. If it is
not square by measuring from corner to oposite diagonal corner, and
have that equal in both corner sets, the paper is skewing through the
printer.
All of this will result in microbanding.
I even installed stronger tension springs in my 3000s. Not a fun job
and of questionable value.
As I've said before, it's very hard to tell the difference here
between well done 3000 quad prints and 9600/StudioPrint quad prints
with the naked eye.
Tyler


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "fotojali"
<jporkkala@y...> wrote:
>
> I don't think it's the paper thickness because I tried this with
> Archival Matte.
> 
> But I downloaded QuadTone RIP and tried it (first time ever) and made
> a few quick tests using "1440 super" resolution and different dither
> algorithms. And the banding was gone with every dithering settings
> (except with "very fast" which was awful). The prints were grainier,
> but I kinda like it, it's like "digital Tri-X" which someone mentioned
> here earlier, maybe combined with Rodinal ;-).
> 
> I'm just learning QTR, but it could be the solution, or .. ?
> 
> --fotojali
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
> <tyler@t...> wrote:
> >
> > You will get microbanding due to inacurate paper advance with the
> > thick papers.
> > This may or may not be what you are experiencing, but be sure and test
> > it with a paper under 250gsm or so.
> > That's the only catch with a 3000, crappy paper advance.
> > Regarding dot size, I'd suggest a good partioned aproach using QTR.
> > The dots will become very untintrusive if visible at all.
> > Tyler
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "fotojali"
> > <jporkkala@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > I am starting my b&w printing with Epson 3000 and MIS Full Spectrum
> > > Neutral Inks. After a few test prints I really like the neutral tone
> > > of the inks, and I think I will be able to live with the 3000's
larger
> > > dot size...
> > > 
> > > BUT, I am getting some disturbing microbanding (dark thin lines)
that
> > > show at closer inspection. If there are Epson 3000 users on the
list:
> > > how are you avoiding this?
> > > 
> > > My nozzle checks are perfect, and I have made the head alignment
> > > several times using the actual paper I'm printing on. I think the
> > > Epson driver I'm using is the latest version.
> > > 
> > > Would a software RIP correct this, and if so, which one should I
try?

> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > > fotojali
> > >
> >
>