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Sihl Iridium Satin-first impressions

Sihl Iridium Satin-first impressions

2006-01-28 by Steven Karafyllakis

Hello All;

I received the Sihl Iridium I mentioned a few days ago, and have 
been testing it since, though work obligations have kept me from 
really diving in to the extent I'd like. But a first report, 
followed hopefully by hard numbers and further opinions and comments 
from Shilesh Jani, Carl Schofield, and Paul Roark, to whom I've sent 
samples.

First, a disclaimer: I have no afiliation or self-interest in either 
of the companies ( Allsquare and Sihl) making and disrtibuting this 
paper, beyond my desire to expand and improve our list of available 
materials whenever possible.

The Iridium Satin (it is available in gloss but I don't have any) 
has a weight of 280gsm or 11ml, a nice weight for RC paper. My first 
impression (once I got it uncurled-more about that later) is that it 
didn't look too much like an RC paper: It is a bit creamy in color 
and not extremely bright, almost as though it has no OBAs-but I 
haven't been able to verify that impression. I have mixed feelings 
about the lack of relative brightness; put next to Epson RC papers 
it looks a bit dull, but put on bright white rag matteboard, it 
matches so much better that the border no longer jumps out at you. 
The overall look is reminiscent of the old Ilfrord MGFB II, which 
was also a bit creamier than later FB papers. 

 I've been told it is acid free, but I haven't found any evidence on 
the Sihl website to support this. I'm sure Paul Roark will apply his 
PH testing pen, that should give us some idea. 

Iridium has a fairly smooth surface that has an almost random but 
very fine texture that looks a lot like fiber-base paper. It is not, 
however, as glossy as Ilford MGFB IV, though it is a tiny bit 
glossier than Epson semi-matte. To-date, it is the most pleasing,  
least machine-like RC paper surface I've seen, though I imagine if 
you're sold on matte, it's still too shiny. 

At first I simply printed it using my semi-matte QTR curve, on the 
R1800 with MIS K4 inks. The ink tone was a bit warmer than on the 
Epson SM, and it printed darker across the board at exactly the same 
settings. In spite of which it held and delineated shadow detail 
nicely, and a slight gamma adjustment brightened it up a bit and 
produced a smooth pleasing ramp and corresponding image. 

My impression of its Dmax with that particular curve was that it is 
at least as good as the Epson semi-matte; Later when I reworked the 
curve a bit I got noticeably better dmax, but having no 
densitometer, well.. you know. We'll have to wait for reports from 
Paul, Carl or Shilesh on that score. I found I could increase the K 
boost a lot: all the way to 100% without visible mottling, and if 
there was a reduction in dmax due to over-inking, it wasn't readily 
visible. However the shadow detail suffered a bit, so I backed off-
to 90%!

Last night Clayton & I did some comparison prints on Iridium, Crane 
Silver Rag, and VFA, on the 2400 with Epson K3 inks. The one thing 
I'm very sure of, is that the surface and sheen of the Iridium beats 
all hell out of the Crane- I do hope Crane can do something about 
that, because otherwise it is a very impressive paper
Quickly though: with default ABW settings (except for the 'gamma' 
setting being on 'lightest') the Iridium had at least as good a dmax 
as the Silver Rag, with equal or better shadow detail, and better 
highlight retention. It tended to print a bit cooler than SR and 
noticeably cooler than VFA. VFA had the lowest dmax of the three, 
but had a luminosity and a richness that more than made up for it. I 
should point out, however, that Clayton's test images were optimized 
for the VFA.

I also ran a couple pieces through the R200 with MIS dye inks. I 
used the color control setting and 'Epson Vivid' (totally not 
neccessary) and with only a slight adjustment in brightness got a 
well balanced excellent looking print with rather mind-boggling 
saturation. It made the Epson Ultra-premium Glossy I also tried look 
like a Junior High School chemistry class experiment in ink-jet 
coating. I've not given it a good test with pigments yet.

Now the bad news: a) It is not available in sheets. the Allsquare 
rep tells me that Sihl will cut a roll down for $20.00 per cut. If 
you have a 24'x100' roll cut ot a 11" roll and a 13" roll, that 
brings the price for both rolls to 115.00, or about 58 cents a 
square foot. Still quite reasonable by any standards.
 
b) The other problem (more nuisance than anything) is that being 
heavier and more like FB paper than most RC papers, it comes of the 
roll with a pretty mean curl. Enouh of a curl that simply getting it 
under a paper cutter and into a desktop printer is hard. I've been 
reverse rolling it on an empty core tube and leaving it that way 
until I'm ready to cut it up. That works reasonably well, though 
having sheets would be so much better.

So far I like the paper enough to continue working with it, fine 
tune my curves to match it, and form a final opinion over the next 
two weeks. In the meantime perhaps one or all of the above mention 
list members can tell us more.

Regards to all;

Steve karafyllakis

RE: [Digital BW] Sihl Iridium Satin-first impressions

2006-01-28 by Jim Doyle

Steven

How can you compare it to Silver rag or VFA.. .. Silver rag Is a 100 %
cotton paper.. This isnt.. ? ? it should Cost less to..

here Is a Link to the data Sheet..
http://www.sihlusa.com/data_sheets/3695.pdf I have Seen This Paper and It
does print well.. But Steve your Trying to compare Apples To Oranges On This
One..


Last night Clayton & I did some comparison prints on Iridium, Crane
Silver Rag, and VFA, on the 2400 with Epson K3 inks. The one thing
I'm very sure of, is that the surface and sheen of the Iridium beats
all hell out of the Crane- I do hope Crane can do something about
that, because otherwise it is a very impressive paper
Quickly though: with default ABW settings (except for the 'gamma'
setting being on 'lightest') the Iridium had at least as good a dmax
as the Silver Rag, with equal or better shadow detail, and better
highlight retention. It tended to print a bit cooler than SR and
noticeably cooler than VFA. VFA had the lowest dmax of the three,
but had a luminosity and a richness that more than made up for it. I
should point out, however, that Clayton's test images were optimized
for the VFA.


Cheers
Jim Doyle


J. Doyle Enterprises LLC
114 Old Orchard Rd
Cherry Hill, NJ 08003
856-424-8660
http://www.shadesofpaper.com
AOL IM: Brokerup99

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Re: Sihl Iridium Satin-first impressions

2006-01-28 by rgoldman2

Steve, this sounds like a promising paper; thanks for the interesting
report. I'm assuming Epson Matte Black with this paper. Or is it like
Premium Semi-Matte, requiring Photo Black?
>

Re: [Digital BW] Sihl Iridium Satin-first impressions

2006-01-28 by Steven Karafyllakis

Yes, Jim, perhaps it is apples to oranges in some ways, but it was 
intended as a rough measure of dmax and overall printing 
characteristics on the one hand, and on the other-how much stock are 
we to put on the sheer status of cotton paper? Does some of the 
mediocre stuff out there merit preference just because it is cotton? 
Just how far do we take the "cotton mystique"? Whats important to me 
is how well a paper prints, how stable it is, and the overall beauty 
and character of the paper. So far cotton papers have had an upper 
hand in the character department, yes. But if an RC paper comes 
along that looks as nice in its own way, prints better than most rag 
papers, and gets good fade test results, why not compare it? Mind 
you, I'm not claiming this is the giant-slayer, just saying lets 
keep an open mind.


Regards,

Steve Karafyllakis

PS: I've seen the Sihl data sheet; one of my reservations with this 
product is precisely that data sheet-it says nothing regarding 
acidity or fade resistance. That's usually a bad sign, most 
companies like to get positive info of that kind out where you can 
find quickly. 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Doyle" 
<jdoyle1713@c...> wrote:
>
> Steven
> 
> How can you compare it to Silver rag or VFA.. .. Silver rag Is a 
100 %
> cotton paper.. This isnt.. ? ? it should Cost less to..
> 
> here Is a Link to the data Sheet..
> http://www.sihlusa.com/data_sheets/3695.pdf I have Seen This Paper 
and It
> does print well.. But Steve your Trying to compare Apples To 
Oranges On This
> One..
> 
> 
> Last night Clayton & I did some comparison prints on Iridium, Crane
> Silver Rag, and VFA, on the 2400 with Epson K3 inks. The one thing
> I'm very sure of, is that the surface and sheen of the Iridium 
beats
> all hell out of the Crane- I do hope Crane can do something about
> that, because otherwise it is a very impressive paper
> Quickly though: with default ABW settings (except for the 'gamma'
> setting being on 'lightest') the Iridium had at least as good a 
dmax
> as the Silver Rag, with equal or better shadow detail, and better
> highlight retention. It tended to print a bit cooler than SR and
> noticeably cooler than VFA. VFA had the lowest dmax of the three,
> but had a luminosity and a richness that more than made up for it. 
I
> should point out, however, that Clayton's test images were 
optimized
> for the VFA.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Jim Doyle
> 
> 
> J. Doyle Enterprises LLC
> 114 Old Orchard Rd
> Cherry Hill, NJ 08003
> 856-424-8660
> http://www.shadesofpaper.com
> AOL IM: Brokerup99
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> them short.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
>   - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> the membership.
>   - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
>   BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN 
ADVISED OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> --
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> 
>     a..  Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the 
web.
> 
>     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>      DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
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of
> Service.
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> --
> 
> 
> --
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> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: Sihl Iridium Satin-first impressions

2006-01-28 by Steven Karafyllakis

No, it needs the Photo Black. I'm curious to get the densitometer 
readings from everybody to see if the Epson or MIS PK has an advantage. 
I couldn't see one with the naked eye, but I'll reserve judgement. And 
before anyone springs for a whole roll of it, remember we haven't yet 
verified it is acid-free, or gotten even informal fade tests.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "rgoldman2" 
<rgoldman@n...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Steve, this sounds like a promising paper; thanks for the interesting
> report. I'm assuming Epson Matte Black with this paper. Or is it like
> Premium Semi-Matte, requiring Photo Black?
> >
>

RE: Sihl Iridium Satin-first impressions

2006-01-31 by Carl Schofield

I received printed and unprinted sample sheets of the Sihl Iridium  
Satin paper (SIS - my acronym) yesterday from Steve.  Steve's prints  
were made with his R1800 and MIS K4 inks.  I made some test prints on  
the blank sample sheets using MIS K4 inks in my Epson 2400.  Dmax was  
essentially the same from both printers with the MIS K4 PK  (1800:  
2.30, 2400: 2.32) on this paper.  Data below were obtained using the  
i1 Spectrophotometer and Quickread to measure patches from a printed  
step wedge on Steve's sample print.  Good neutrality and the paper is  
a slightly off-white color, compared to Epson Premium Semimatte which  
is a bright white paper.  SIS surface looks almost the same as the  
semimatte - very smooth, soft satin sheen with no distracting  
reflections.  Nice heavy paper, but since the sheets were cut from  
the end of a 24 inch roll there was some latent curl.  This is a  
beautiful paper with a smooth surface that looks more like air dried  
silver than any other ink-jet paper I've seen so far and it is a  
perfect match for the K4 inks (and probably K3 as well).   I hope we  
can find a vendor for SIS that will supply sheets as well as rolls.

Carl

Sihl Iridium Satin

100% Black patch reading:  C 2.30, M 2.30, Y 2.28, V 2.30
  50% Black patch reading:  C 0.65, M 0.67, Y 0.68, V 0.66
  25% Black patch reading:  C 0.25, M 0.26, Y 0.26, V 0.25
    0% Black patch reading:  C 0.03, M 0.03, Y 0.02, V 0.03
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Steven Karafyllakis" <stevekphoto@...>
Date: Sat Jan 28, 2006  2:42 am
Subject: Sihl Iridium Satin-first impressions



Hello All;

I received the Sihl Iridium I mentioned a few days ago, and have
been testing it since, though work obligations have kept me from
really diving in to the extent I'd like. But a first report,
followed hopefully by hard numbers and further opinions and comments
from Shilesh Jani, Carl Schofield, and Paul Roark, to whom I've sent
samples.

First, a disclaimer: I have no afiliation or self-interest in either
of the companies ( Allsquare and Sihl) making and disrtibuting this
paper, beyond my desire to expand and improve our list of available
materials whenever possible.

The Iridium Satin (it is available in gloss but I don't have any)
has a weight of 280gsm or 11ml, a nice weight for RC paper. My first
impression (once I got it uncurled-more about that later) is that it
didn't look too much like an RC paper: It is a bit creamy in color
and not extremely bright, almost as though it has no OBAs-but I
haven't been able to verify that impression. I have mixed feelings
about the lack of relative brightness; put next to Epson RC papers
it looks a bit dull, but put on bright white rag matteboard, it
matches so much better that the border no longer jumps out at you.
The overall look is reminiscent of the old Ilfrord MGFB II, which
was also a bit creamier than later FB papers.

I've been told it is acid free, but I haven't found any evidence on
the Sihl website to support this. I'm sure Paul Roark will apply his
PH testing pen, that should give us some idea.

Iridium has a fairly smooth surface that has an almost random but
very fine texture that looks a lot like fiber-base paper. It is not,
however, as glossy as Ilford MGFB IV, though it is a tiny bit
glossier than Epson semi-matte. To-date, it is the most pleasing,
least machine-like RC paper surface I've seen, though I imagine if
you're sold on matte, it's still too shiny.

At first I simply printed it using my semi-matte QTR curve, on the
R1800 with MIS K4 inks. The ink tone was a bit warmer than on the
Epson SM, and it printed darker across the board at exactly the same
settings. In spite of which it held and delineated shadow detail
nicely, and a slight gamma adjustment brightened it up a bit and
produced a smooth pleasing ramp and corresponding image.

My impression of its Dmax with that particular curve was that it is
at least as good as the Epson semi-matte; Later when I reworked the
curve a bit I got noticeably better dmax, but having no
densitometer, well.. you know. We'll have to wait for reports from
Paul, Carl or Shilesh on that score. I found I could increase the K
boost a lot: all the way to 100% without visible mottling, and if
there was a reduction in dmax due to over-inking, it wasn't readily
visible. However the shadow detail suffered a bit, so I backed off-
to 90%!

Last night Clayton & I did some comparison prints on Iridium, Crane
Silver Rag, and VFA, on the 2400 with Epson K3 inks. The one thing
I'm very sure of, is that the surface and sheen of the Iridium beats
all hell out of the Crane- I do hope Crane can do something about
that, because otherwise it is a very impressive paper
Quickly though: with default ABW settings (except for the 'gamma'
setting being on 'lightest') the Iridium had at least as good a dmax
as the Silver Rag, with equal or better shadow detail, and better
highlight retention. It tended to print a bit cooler than SR and
noticeably cooler than VFA. VFA had the lowest dmax of the three,
but had a luminosity and a richness that more than made up for it. I
should point out, however, that Clayton's test images were optimized
for the VFA.

I also ran a couple pieces through the R200 with MIS dye inks. I
used the color control setting and 'Epson Vivid' (totally not
neccessary) and with only a slight adjustment in brightness got a
well balanced excellent looking print with rather mind-boggling
saturation. It made the Epson Ultra-premium Glossy I also tried look
like a Junior High School chemistry class experiment in ink-jet
coating. I've not given it a good test with pigments yet.

Now the bad news: a) It is not available in sheets. the Allsquare
rep tells me that Sihl will cut a roll down for $20.00 per cut. If
you have a 24'x100' roll cut ot a 11" roll and a 13" roll, that
brings the price for both rolls to 115.00, or about 58 cents a
square foot. Still quite reasonable by any standards.

b) The other problem (more nuisance than anything) is that being
heavier and more like FB paper than most RC papers, it comes of the
roll with a pretty mean curl. Enouh of a curl that simply getting it
under a paper cutter and into a desktop printer is hard. I've been
reverse rolling it on an empty core tube and leaving it that way
until I'm ready to cut it up. That works reasonably well, though
having sheets would be so much better.

So far I like the paper enough to continue working with it, fine
tune my curves to match it, and form a final opinion over the next
two weeks. In the meantime perhaps one or all of the above mention
list members can tell us more.

Regards to all;

Steve karafyllakis



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Sihl Iridium Satin-first impressions

2006-02-01 by joshhackney

Carl,

If you have a few minutes, could you take some Lab readings for paper white?  

Thanks!

Josh



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <scho@m...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I received printed and unprinted sample sheets of the Sihl Iridium  
> Satin paper (SIS - my acronym) yesterday from Steve.  Steve's prints  
> were made with his R1800 and MIS K4 inks.  I made some test prints on  
> the blank sample sheets using MIS K4 inks in my Epson 2400.  Dmax was  
> essentially the same from both printers with the MIS K4 PK  (1800:  
> 2.30, 2400: 2.32) on this paper.  Data below were obtained using the  
> i1 Spectrophotometer and Quickread to measure patches from a printed  
> step wedge on Steve's sample print.  Good neutrality and the paper is  
> a slightly off-white color, compared to Epson Premium Semimatte which  
> is a bright white paper.  SIS surface looks almost the same as the  
> semimatte - very smooth, soft satin sheen with no distracting  
> reflections.  Nice heavy paper, but since the sheets were cut from  
> the end of a 24 inch roll there was some latent curl.  This is a  
> beautiful paper with a smooth surface that looks more like air dried  
> silver than any other ink-jet paper I've seen so far and it is a  
> perfect match for the K4 inks (and probably K3 as well).   I hope we  
> can find a vendor for SIS that will supply sheets as well as rolls.
> 
> Carl
> 
> Sihl Iridium Satin
> 
> 100% Black patch reading:  C 2.30, M 2.30, Y 2.28, V 2.30
>   50% Black patch reading:  C 0.65, M 0.67, Y 0.68, V 0.66
>   25% Black patch reading:  C 0.25, M 0.26, Y 0.26, V 0.25
>     0% Black patch reading:  C 0.03, M 0.03, Y 0.02, V 0.03
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Sihl Iridium Satin-first impressions

2006-02-01 by Carl Schofield

Sihl Iridium Satin:  L 97.15, a 0.75, b -2.89

Epson Premium Semimatte:  L 96.90, a 0.04, b -3.80
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Feb 1, 2006, at 2:03 PM, joshhackney wrote:

>
> Carl,
>
> If you have a few minutes, could you take some Lab readings for  
> paper white?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield  
> <scho@m...>
> wrote:
>>
>> I received printed and unprinted sample sheets of the Sihl Iridium
>> Satin paper (SIS - my acronym) yesterday from Steve.  Steve's prints
>> were made with his R1800 and MIS K4 inks.  I made some test prints on
>> the blank sample sheets using MIS K4 inks in my Epson 2400.  Dmax was
>> essentially the same from both printers with the MIS K4 PK  (1800:
>> 2.30, 2400: 2.32) on this paper.  Data below were obtained using the
>> i1 Spectrophotometer and Quickread to measure patches from a printed
>> step wedge on Steve's sample print.  Good neutrality and the paper is
>> a slightly off-white color, compared to Epson Premium Semimatte which
>> is a bright white paper.  SIS surface looks almost the same as the
>> semimatte - very smooth, soft satin sheen with no distracting
>> reflections.  Nice heavy paper, but since the sheets were cut from
>> the end of a 24 inch roll there was some latent curl.  This is a
>> beautiful paper with a smooth surface that looks more like air dried
>> silver than any other ink-jet paper I've seen so far and it is a
>> perfect match for the K4 inks (and probably K3 as well).   I hope we
>> can find a vendor for SIS that will supply sheets as well as rolls.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> Sihl Iridium Satin
>>
>> 100% Black patch reading:  C 2.30, M 2.30, Y 2.28, V 2.30
>>   50% Black patch reading:  C 0.65, M 0.67, Y 0.68, V 0.66
>>   25% Black patch reading:  C 0.25, M 0.26, Y 0.26, V 0.25
>>     0% Black patch reading:  C 0.03, M 0.03, Y 0.02, V 0.03
>>

Re: Sihl Iridium Satin-first impressions

2006-02-02 by chipcarterdc

Sorry, I may have missed this, but is this stuff actually for sale currently?  I seem to recall 
someone mentioning that AllSquare is the (only?) dealer, but I didn't see any info on Sihl 
Iridium Satin on their website (it's not listed under the Sihl pricelist).

Re: Sihl Iridium Satin-first impressions

2006-02-02 by Steven Karafyllakis

My impression is its a fairly new item, but yes, its available, though 
I doubt Allsquare is the only dealer for it. They simply happened to be 
the ones I bought my 7600 from, so I hear from them occasionally. I 
don't know if its ok to post conatct info, I'll email it to you.

Steven Karafyllakis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chipcarterdc" 
<chipcarterdc@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I may have missed this, but is this stuff actually for sale 
currently?  I seem to recall 
> someone mentioning that AllSquare is the (only?) dealer, but I didn't 
see any info on Sihl 
> Iridium Satin on their website (it's not listed under the Sihl 
pricelist).
>

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