Digital BW, The Print

Hello everyone. I've poked around a bit looking for a solution to
getting neutral B&W prints from my new R220 and now am more confused
than ever.

I have many requests to purchase some prints. Nothing fancy, just 4x6
to 8x10's done on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper.

Not looking to ponder over multiple options anymore.
Can someone just tell me what to buy?

1) I'm assuming I'll have to buy a whole B&W inkset from MIS and
dedicate this printer to BO. No problem, I love the printer for color
but I'll just buy another.

2) What kind of lifespan can I expect from these prints? I do not know
  which machines use dye or pigment inks and what the difference is on
longevity.

3) What kind of purging process is necessary to switchover from color
to B&W. Or should I just buy a brand new machine and install the B&W
cartridges from the get-go?

4) Can I expect reasonable performance should I decide to go with a
different paper source, whether it be the inexpensive Kirkland I've
heard about from Costco or to a higher end paper.

If it matters I've also got an Epson 825 that worked OK for B&W but
that thing is so noisy and slow, especially doing borderless.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Steve

Hello Steve,

You actually have several options.

A. Use the "black ink only" printing option using the Epson ink you
have now. Depending on subject matter and presentation mode, this can
work very well and will give you a neutral/cool tone, depending on
paper. It's a dye ink.

B. Use "black ink only" with an MIS (or other 3rd party) pigment black
suitable for the paper you wish to use. This is a carbon based pigment
ink with great longevity. You will get quite a warm tone this way.

C. Use the full blown B&W pigment inkset from MIS (or other).

It's easy enough to experiment with black-only and see if it will work
for your taste and your images.

Now for your questions, many of which I have asked here recently, and
gotten great advice on.:

1. Many around here use an R200 or R220 as a dedicated BW printer.
Clayton has convinced me that this is the most economical way in the
long run. Certainly, the least labor-intensive. The more BW printing
you do, the more this will be true.

2. The experts will correct me if I'm wrong, but carbon pigment inks
on Epson Premium Glossy will last at least as long as any high quality
method available at reasonable cost.

3. see #1. I am told you will waste much ink to cleaning cycles when
you swap, not to mention time and effort, and you will be providing
more opportunities for dust and dirt to get into the works or onto the
carts and cause problems.

4. On gloss, I don't think you can do better than Epson PG or
Kirkland. The limiting factor for the R220, besides width, is
thickness/stiffness, as the paper path is not straight.

I just bought my R220, and a set of MIS neutral R2, but haven't made
the ink swap yet. Hoping within the next week.

Good luck,
Bob 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Dewing"
<dewing19@...> wrote:

>
> Hello everyone. I've poked around a bit looking for a solution to
> getting neutral B&W prints from my new R220 and now am more confused
> than ever.
> 
> I have many requests to purchase some prints. Nothing fancy, just 4x6
> to 8x10's done on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper.
> 
> Not looking to ponder over multiple options anymore.
> Can someone just tell me what to buy?
> 
> 1) I'm assuming I'll have to buy a whole B&W inkset from MIS and
> dedicate this printer to BO. No problem, I love the printer for color
> but I'll just buy another.
> 
> 2) What kind of lifespan can I expect from these prints? I do not know
>   which machines use dye or pigment inks and what the difference is on
> longevity.
> 
> 3) What kind of purging process is necessary to switchover from color
> to B&W. Or should I just buy a brand new machine and install the B&W
> cartridges from the get-go?
> 
> 4) Can I expect reasonable performance should I decide to go with a
> different paper source, whether it be the inexpensive Kirkland I've
> heard about from Costco or to a higher end paper.
> 
> If it matters I've also got an Epson 825 that worked OK for B&W but
> that thing is so noisy and slow, especially doing borderless.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.
> 
> Steve
>

Steve  -
   
  I am switching between the MIS PRO color inks (pigments) and the MIS b&w inks without any problems.  The quality is great.
   
  Two R220 would be good if you find you are switching often.  However, if you buy the MIS inks in bulk and reload the carts, the price is so good that you might not mind the amount of ink that is purged on the change over.  
   
  The entire change over takes less than 10 minutes.
   
  Tom Baker
  

Steve Dewing <dewing19@...> wrote:
  Hello everyone. I've poked around a bit looking for a solution to
getting neutral B&W prints from my new R220 and now am more confused
than ever.

I have many requests to purchase some prints. Nothing fancy, just 4x6
to 8x10's done on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper.

Not looking to ponder over multiple options anymore.
Can someone just tell me what to buy?

1) I'm assuming I'll have to buy a whole B&W inkset from MIS and
dedicate this printer to BO. No problem, I love the printer for color
but I'll just buy another.

2) What kind of lifespan can I expect from these prints? I do not know
  which machines use dye or pigment inks and what the difference is on
longevity.

3) What kind of purging process is necessary to switchover from color
to B&W. Or should I just buy a brand new machine and install the B&W
cartridges from the get-go?

4) Can I expect reasonable performance should I decide to go with a
different paper source, whether it be the inexpensive Kirkland I've
heard about from Costco or to a higher end paper.

If it matters I've also got an Epson 825 that worked OK for B&W but
that thing is so noisy and slow, especially doing borderless.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Steve








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks the quick answer Tom and Bob. Right after I posted I found the
info I should have found earlier. I went ahead and ordered a set of
UT-R2 ink cartridges from MIS. I'm gonna get a new printer since I
believe they are $50 after rebate this week. I'm doing so much
printing in both color and B&W that I don't want to switch between.
It's just a matter of finding more desk space....

Bob, you mentioned that the Epson inks for this printer were
dye-based. Any idea on the longevity? As a test yesterday I tried out
some generic paper (I think it was PrintWorx?) in the 5x7 size. The
prints came out so wet but when they dried I couldn't believe how rich
the colors were. I wanna sell the prints as is....but don't know how
long they will last. I'll try to Epson 5x7 and I'm guessing I'll get
the most longevity with their paper??

I was using an Epson Stylus Photo 825. Is that dye or pigment?

Thanks again.

Steve

Hello Steve,

>3) What kind of purging process is necessary to switchover from color
>to B&W. 

I didn't have any problem putting MIS ink in my R200.  Just put in the
carts, let it do it's cleaning cycle, then run a nozzle check.  

To help prevent air from causing a clog, when swapping carts I find it
a good practice to let new carts sit in the slot for 5 minutes before
pushing the ink button to begin the cleaning cycle.  Seems to allow
the ink to settle down into the head.  A lot of problems that are
labeled as "clogs" are actually air pockets.  I had frequent problems
like this with my old 2200 and when I began this practice the problems
disappeared.

Another possibility, for running color and BW from the same printer,
is to put in MIS K and LK for two blacks, with LC and LM (or some
other combination) for toners and use QTR or some other RIP to control
the inks.  There are a number of custom blends used by people here. 
I'm they will share their techniques if you ask.

One other thing - once you get the new inks installed, run some test
prints and check for dither banding.  If there is some a head
alignment will often improve the output.  It made a significant
difference on mine.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Steve  -
   
  Selling dye prints that folks would expect to last, especially under most display conditions is risky.  Faded prints negatively reflect on ones reputation.
   
  If you do decide to go with the dyes, MIS has the dye inks in bulk (and carts) for the 220.  With either dye or pigs, buying bulk is almost a necessity if you are printing any quantity.
   
  Tom Baker

Steve Dewing <dewing19@...> wrote:
  Thanks the quick answer Tom and Bob. Right after I posted I found the
info I should have found earlier. I went ahead and ordered a set of
UT-R2 ink cartridges from MIS. I'm gonna get a new printer since I
believe they are $50 after rebate this week. I'm doing so much
printing in both color and B&W that I don't want to switch between.
It's just a matter of finding more desk space....

Bob, you mentioned that the Epson inks for this printer were
dye-based. Any idea on the longevity? As a test yesterday I tried out
some generic paper (I think it was PrintWorx?) in the 5x7 size. The
prints came out so wet but when they dried I couldn't believe how rich
the colors were. I wanna sell the prints as is....but don't know how
long they will last. I'll try to Epson 5x7 and I'm guessing I'll get
the most longevity with their paper??

I was using an Epson Stylus Photo 825. Is that dye or pigment?

Thanks again.

Steve






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve,

Now you're getting beyond my limited knowledge. I can tell you from my
own experience that cheapo gloss papers that I've tried tend to come
out wet. I think they just do not absorb the amount of ink the printer
puts down for the equivalent paper type selected. The suspect the
vibrance you talk about may simply be a result of a thicker surface
layer of ink, and I'd wonder about its fragility, aside from the usual
questions about cheap paper.

I can also tell you that MIS sells cartridges for the R220 containing
color pigment inks (but no profiles).

I gather that in the past, broadly speaking, the choice was vibrant
color dye vs more muted but long-lasting pigment, but apparently the
newest pigment inks and printers have sufficiently caught up in
brilliance.

Bob

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Dewing"
<dewing19@...> wrote:

> Bob, you mentioned that the Epson inks for this printer were
> dye-based. Any idea on the longevity? As a test yesterday I tried out
> some generic paper (I think it was PrintWorx?) in the 5x7 size. The
> prints came out so wet but when they dried I couldn't believe how rich
> the colors were. I wanna sell the prints as is....but don't know how
> long they will last. I'll try to Epson 5x7 and I'm guessing I'll get
> the most longevity with their paper??
> 
> I was using an Epson Stylus Photo 825. Is that dye or pigment?
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Steve
>

Thanks to the folks at MIS I am now printing fantastic (to my eye)
neutral black and white photos.

I couldn't get ahold of a new R220 so I took the color ones out, put
the gray-black set in, and ran 2 cleaning cycles. Obviously very easy.
I just wrapped up the color ones in saran wrap for use later I hope.
In the meantime I have alot of printing to do.

Steve

Tom, 

Do you swap partially-full cartridges? If so how do you store them?

Bob

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker
<tbaker1328@...> wrote:
>
> Steve  -
>    
>   I am switching between the MIS PRO color inks (pigments) and the
MIS b&w inks without any problems.  The quality is great.
>    
>   Two R220 would be good if you find you are switching often. 
However, if you buy the MIS inks in bulk and reload the carts, the
price is so good that you might not mind the amount of ink that is
purged on the change over.  

>    
>   The entire change over takes less than 10 minutes.
>    
>   Tom Baker
>   
>

Yes.  I just put a piece of plaing scotch tape across the opening and set them aside, upright in a small box.  No problems.  Also, I haven't been running any additional cleaning cycles when I change.  The printer does a cleaning cycle when you change the carts.
   
  Tom Baker

l33ry <l33ry@...m> wrote:
  Tom, 

Do you swap partially-full cartridges? If so how do you store them?

Bob

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker
<tbaker1328@...> wrote:
>
> Steve  -
>    
>   I am switching between the MIS PRO color inks (pigments) and the
MIS b&w inks without any problems.  The quality is great.
>    
>   Two R220 would be good if you find you are switching often. 
However, if you buy the MIS inks in bulk and reload the carts, the
price is so good that you might not mind the amount of ink that is
purged on the change over.  
>    
>   The entire change over takes less than 10 minutes.
>    
>   Tom Baker
>   
> 






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

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Please follow these basic guidelines:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]