Digital BW, The Print

Martin, media street has better prices than the link you mention.

Jerry


They just started carrying Photo Matte. it should be on their site today.

mwesley250@... wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Picked up a package of Legion Photo Matte locally today. First thing
> I did, after noting the smoooooth surface, was to check it with my pH
> pens.
>
> Front: Lineco - Purple, Light Impressions - Blue
> Core: Lineco - Purple, Light Impressions - Blue
> Back: Lineco - Purple, Light Impressions - Blue
>
> In other words the ph is neutral or above as advertised.
>
> Heavier, smoother and whiter than EAM. Cost me $0.36 per sheet at
>
> http://www.einks.net/index.html
>
> The one draw back I see is that it may be too white. Not the lavender
> white of Hahnemule Photo Matte (aka ConeTech Matte) but in that
> direction. Side by side with the other papers it is so cool it seems
> to have a hint of blue. But if you prefer a more neutral tone this
> appears to help get you there. Need to see what happens to the tone
> over the next few days.
>
> May be a little less sharp than Torchon. Blacks equal to Torchon or a
> bit better. With the white base the overall range is greater.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
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>
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on 8/14/01 11:41 AM, Jerry Olson wrote:

> Martin, media street has better prices than the link you mention.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> They just started carrying Photo Matte. it should be on their site today.

The cool whiteness of it (as described by Martin) scares me. I can't look at
the Conetech Matte, for instance. I prefer something between Hahnemuhle's
WT/GE, and EAM. Jerry, you probably prefer a whiter/cooler paper than me,
but what was your impression of the Photo Matte paper color?

I'm looking forward to checking out the H. Photo Rag, when somebody knows
where to get some in the USA, please post notice to this list.

Todd

> Todd,

> I LOVE the whiteness of Legion Photo Matte paper, which is the whitest paper
> I have ever seen. It is whiter than even Aspen! Pure absolute white, with
> blacks better than any other of the 10 papers I have tried this image on
> except Royal Riviera, which also has these same deep rich blacks.

This is the holy grail of photo papers, if it turns out to be archival as the
others. It is about twice as thick as Aspen, thicker than Epson Archival, 2 or
3 shades whiter than epson Archival, and makes a gorgeous print for those who
like a really white paper. It is beautiful! Tis a shame you don't like the
brilliant white, which of course goes even farther in making the blacks look
deeper! If it makes it through 2 months in a sunny window with MIS variable
tone inks, It will be my main paper, and Royal Riviera will be the other one.
Those two will do it for me.

Jerry

>

> The cool whiteness of it (as described by Martin) scares me. I can't look at
> the Conetech Matte, for instance. I prefer something between Hahnemuhle's
> WT/GE, and EAM. Jerry, you probably prefer a whiter/cooler paper than me,
> but what was your impression of the Photo Matte paper color?
>
> I'm looking forward to checking out the H. Photo Rag, when somebody knows
> where to get some in the USA, please post notice to this list.
>
> Todd
>
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

on 8/14/01 3:10 PM, Jerry Olson wrote:

>> Todd,
> 
>> I LOVE the whiteness of Legion Photo Matte paper, which is the whitest paper
>> I have ever seen. It is whiter than even Aspen! Pure absolute white, with
>> blacks better than any other of the 10 papers I have tried this image on
>> except Royal Riviera, which also has these same deep rich blacks.
> 
> This is the holy grail of photo papers, if it turns out to be archival as the
> others. It is about twice as thick as Aspen, thicker than Epson Archival, 2 or
> 3 shades whiter than epson Archival, and makes a gorgeous print for those who
> like a really white paper. It is beautiful! Tis a shame you don't like the
> brilliant white, which of course goes even farther in making the blacks look
> deeper! If it makes it through 2 months in a sunny window with MIS variable
> tone inks, It will be my main paper, and Royal Riviera will be the other one.
> Those two will do it for me.
> 
> Jerry

Alright Jerry, you sold me. If I'll be picking up a pack to try. So long as
the "whites" aren't lavender I'll probably be okay with it. The Holy Grail
for under $40 is worth a look.  ;-)

Thanks,
Todd

PS, You sure about the blacks, I remember seeing someone on the Piezo list
saying they looked like Somerset Enhanced, but they did seem less than
certain of that.

The Blacks are much deeper than somerset enhanced. I'd guess at 1.67 - 1.70 D-Max.
Somerset, I believe was 1.44. Only the torchon has blacks this deep out of the ten
or so papers I have printed this image on. HOWEVER, I'm using the MIS variable tone
inkset, with Paul's cool curve. I've not yet tried this paper with piezo inks. I
ordered 25 sheets, but so far they only sent the sample pack. Media Street has the
best prices, I believe it's $22.28 for 50 sheets. I don't see any "color" to the
paper in daylight room lighting. I suppose I should take it out doors to see if it
makes a difference.

Jerry

> >> I LOVE the whiteness of Legion Photo Matte paper, which is the whitest paper
> >> I have ever seen. It is whiter than even Aspen! Pure absolute white, with
> >> blacks better than any other of the 10 papers I have tried this image on
> >> except Royal Riviera, which also has these same deep rich blacks.
>
>
> Alright Jerry, you sold me. If I'll be picking up a pack to try. So long as
> the "whites" aren't lavender I'll probably be okay with it. The Holy Grail
> for under $40 is worth a look.  ;-)
>

Only $22.28 for 50 sheets of letter sized paper

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> The Blacks are much deeper than somerset enhanced. I'd guess at 
1.67 - 1.70 D-Max.
> Somerset, I believe was 1.44. Only the torchon has blacks this deep 
out of the ten
> or so papers I have printed this image on. HOWEVER, I'm using the 
MIS variable tone
> inkset, with Paul's cool curve. I've not yet tried this paper with 
piezo inks.

I agree with Jerry on the blacks. Up there with the best I have seen 
with Piezo inks. My reaction to the cool whiteness of the paper may 
be in contrast to the Piezo ink colors. Looks like one of the most 
neutral color Piezo prints I have made but I need to wait a few days 
and see if it warms up.

Given the whiteness of the paper I would think that it would be very 
well suited to Paul's cool curve. I have only seen one example of the 
cool inks but looks like it would be a good color match.

With the bright white and good blacks LPM probably has the widest 
tonal range of any of the archival quality matte papers.


>I
> ordered 25 sheets, but so far they only sent the sample pack. Media 
Street has the
> best prices, I believe it's $22.28 for 50 sheets. I don't see 
any "color" to the
> paper in daylight room lighting. I suppose I should take it out 
doors to see if it
> makes a difference.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> > >> I LOVE the whiteness of Legion Photo Matte paper, which is the 
whitest paper
> > >> I have ever seen. It is whiter than even Aspen! Pure absolute 
white, with
> > >> blacks better than any other of the 10 papers I have tried 
this image on
> > >> except Royal Riviera, which also has these same deep rich 
blacks.
> >
> >
> > Alright Jerry, you sold me. If I'll be picking up a pack to try. 
So long as
> > the "whites" aren't lavender I'll probably be okay with it. The 
Holy Grail
> > for under $40 is worth a look.  ;-)
> >
If you lay a sheet of the Legion Photo Matte on top of ConeTech Matte 
the Conetech looks light gray in comparison that is how white LPM is. 
I have the same image on LPM and Torchon sitting next to each other. 
For the Piezo I think I am inclined towards the Torchon but it is a 
matter of taste and my taste in paper seems to be changing daily!
> 
> Only $22.28 for 50 sheets of letter sized paper

I paid http://www.einks.net/index.html $18.00 for 50 8.5x11.

Martin

Well that IS a good price. Lordy I hope this stuff lasts as long in a sunny
window as the epson. IT's gorgeous!!



mwesley250@... wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > The Blacks are much deeper than somerset enhanced. I'd guess at
> 1.67 - 1.70 D-Max.
> > Somerset, I believe was 1.44. Only the torchon has blacks this deep
> out of the ten
> > or so papers I have printed this image on. HOWEVER, I'm using the
> MIS variable tone
> > inkset, with Paul's cool curve. I've not yet tried this paper with
> piezo inks.
>
> I agree with Jerry on the blacks. Up there with the best I have seen
> with Piezo inks. My reaction to the cool whiteness of the paper may
> be in contrast to the Piezo ink colors. Looks like one of the most
> neutral color Piezo prints I have made but I need to wait a few days
> and see if it warms up.
>
> Given the whiteness of the paper I would think that it would be very
> well suited to Paul's cool curve. I have only seen one example of the
> cool inks but looks like it would be a good color match.
>
> With the bright white and good blacks LPM probably has the widest
> tonal range of any of the archival quality matte papers.
>
> >I
> > ordered 25 sheets, but so far they only sent the sample pack. Media
> Street has the
> > best prices, I believe it's $22.28 for 50 sheets. I don't see
> any "color" to the
> > paper in daylight room lighting. I suppose I should take it out
> doors to see if it
> > makes a difference.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > > >> I LOVE the whiteness of Legion Photo Matte paper, which is the
> whitest paper
> > > >> I have ever seen. It is whiter than even Aspen! Pure absolute
> white, with
> > > >> blacks better than any other of the 10 papers I have tried
> this image on
> > > >> except Royal Riviera, which also has these same deep rich
> blacks.
> > >
> > >
> > > Alright Jerry, you sold me. If I'll be picking up a pack to try.
> So long as
> > > the "whites" aren't lavender I'll probably be okay with it. The
> Holy Grail
> > > for under $40 is worth a look.  ;-)
> > >
> If you lay a sheet of the Legion Photo Matte on top of ConeTech Matte
> the Conetech looks light gray in comparison that is how white LPM is.
> I have the same image on LPM and Torchon sitting next to each other.
> For the Piezo I think I am inclined towards the Torchon but it is a
> matter of taste and my taste in paper seems to be changing daily!
> >
> > Only $22.28 for 50 sheets of letter sized paper
>
> I paid http://www.einks.net/index.html $18.00 for 50 8.5x11.
>
> Martin
>
>
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Haven't tried the paper yet, but I do want to vouch for Media Street. They
seem to have the cheapest prices across the board for the Hahnemuhle papers
(maybe others too, not sure), and I placed an order Saturday night, and
received it today! Under $7 shipping on a $90+ order and it came essentially
overnight (one state away) considering it wouldn't have gone out till
yesterday. Well kudos to UPS for that too, but still, a good operation.

Todd

> The Blacks are much deeper than somerset enhanced. I'd guess at 1.67 - 1.70
> D-Max.
> Somerset, I believe was 1.44. Only the torchon has blacks this deep out of the
> ten
> or so papers I have printed this image on. HOWEVER, I'm using the MIS variable
> tone
> inkset, with Paul's cool curve. I've not yet tried this paper with piezo inks.
> I
> ordered 25 sheets, but so far they only sent the sample pack. Media Street has
> the
> best prices, I believe it's $22.28 for 50 sheets. I don't see any "color" to
> the
> paper in daylight room lighting. I suppose I should take it out doors to see
> if it
> makes a difference.
> 
> Jerry
> 
>>>> I LOVE the whiteness of Legion Photo Matte paper, which is the whitest
>>>> paper
>>>> I have ever seen. It is whiter than even Aspen! Pure absolute white, with
>>>> blacks better than any other of the 10 papers I have tried this image on
>>>> except Royal Riviera, which also has these same deep rich blacks.
>> 
>> 
>> Alright Jerry, you sold me. If I'll be picking up a pack to try. So long as
>> the "whites" aren't lavender I'll probably be okay with it. The Holy Grail
>> for under $40 is worth a look.  ;-)
>> 
> 
> Only $22.28 for 50 sheets of letter sized paper
> 
> 
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

on 8/14/01 5:01 PM, mwesley250@... wrote:

> I paid http://www.einks.net/index.html $18.00 for 50 8.5x11.
> 
Martin,

Did you have to phone in your order? When I click one paper size link the
window doesn't fill properly, and another size comes up as Radiant Velvet.

I'll call 'em.

Todd

Todd,

Second your oppinon on Media Steet. Good prices and good customer 
service. E-inks is in Sunnyvale, CA 2 miles from where I work so it 
is a great place to get paper in a pinch.

They really are just coming on line with this. They are a laser 
printer repair shop that is branching out into e-commerce. Seem like 
nice folks. They are place where you can occassionally find a bargin 
like the Legion Photo Matte. The website takes some digging to find 
stuff. Their price on the Lyson Rough Fine Art (Torchon) is double 
Media Street. At this point maybe a place you want to check before 
you place a big order but Media Street are still the ones to beat 99% 
of the time.

But it's great to know I can get in my car and go pick up some 
Torchon if I really can't wait!

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner <tflash@e...> 
wrote:
> Haven't tried the paper yet, but I do want to vouch for Media 
Street. They
> seem to have the cheapest prices across the board for the 
Hahnemuhle papers
> (maybe others too, not sure), and I placed an order Saturday night, 
and
> received it today! Under $7 shipping on a $90+ order and it came 
essentially
> overnight (one state away) considering it wouldn't have gone out 
till
> yesterday. Well kudos to UPS for that too, but still, a good 
operation.
> 
> Todd
> 
(snip)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner <tflash@e...> 
wrote:
> on 8/14/01 5:01 PM, mwesley250@e... wrote:
> 
> > I paid http://www.einks.net/index.html $18.00 for 50 8.5x11.
> > 
> Martin,
> 
> Did you have to phone in your order? When I click one paper size 
link the
> window doesn't fill properly, and another size comes up as Radiant 
Velvet.
> 
> I'll call 'em.
> 
> Todd

Nope. Just get in your car and..... ;-)

Their site needs some work.

Martin

The nice thing about Media Street is you can get in touch with Norm Levy,
the company's owner. He is very personable and always answers you, usually
within a day, sometimes sooner! Excellent service, great prices, and very
reasonable postage compared to practically any other company.

Jerry



mwesley250@... wrote:

> Todd,
>
> Second your oppinon on Media Steet. Good prices and good customer
> service. E-inks is in Sunnyvale, CA 2 miles from where I work so it
> is a great place to get paper in a pinch.
>
> They really are just coming on line with this. They are a laser
> printer repair shop that is branching out into e-commerce. Seem like
> nice folks. They are place where you can occassionally find a bargin
> like the Legion Photo Matte. The website takes some digging to find
> stuff. Their price on the Lyson Rough Fine Art (Torchon) is double
> Media Street. At this point maybe a place you want to check before
> you place a big order but Media Street are still the ones to beat 99%
> of the time.
>
> But it's great to know I can get in my car and go pick up some
> Torchon if I really can't wait!
>
> Martin
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner <tflash@e...>
> wrote:
> > Haven't tried the paper yet, but I do want to vouch for Media
> Street. They
> > seem to have the cheapest prices across the board for the
> Hahnemuhle papers
> > (maybe others too, not sure), and I placed an order Saturday night,
> and
> > received it today! Under $7 shipping on a $90+ order and it came
> essentially
> > overnight (one state away) considering it wouldn't have gone out
> till
> > yesterday. Well kudos to UPS for that too, but still, a good
> operation.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> (snip)
>
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry,

I am making some more prints on the Legion Photo Matte with the Piezo 
inks. I have noticed there is a significant "dry up" time. At least 5 
minutes, maybe more before it dries and the blacks reach Dmax. It 
looks terrible when it first comes out of the printer with very weak 
blacks until dry. Biggest change I have seen yet in a paper. Little 
warming in the 1st 24 hours.

Typical warm/green Piezo tone under halogen and tungsten. Took it out 
doors and it looked completely neutral. I am more convinced that the 
majority of the Piezo green issue is metamerism.

It is still startling to work with such white paper. Really makes the 
highlights pop. I'm warming up to the cool tone.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> The nice thing about Media Street is you can get in touch with Norm 
Levy,
> the company's owner. He is very personable and always answers you, 
usually
> within a day, sometimes sooner! (snip)

Hi Martin, I only got 2 sheets in the sample pack, and I have one left I'm
going to use to profile my printer to my recently profiled monitor. The
first print I made with the first sheet was perfect. The blacks were REALLY
deep right out of the printer, but I'm using the MIS Variable tone cold
inks. I haven't tried the paper with piezo inks. I ordered 3 boxes yesterday
from media street, so I'll be doing a lot of testing shortly. Steadman says
the paper tests out to be acid free and pH neutral with tester pen. It looks
like we Finally have THE paper we have wanted for so long!

Jerry

>
> I am making some more prints on the Legion Photo Matte with the Piezo
> inks. I have noticed there is a significant "dry up" time. At least 5
> minutes, maybe more before it dries and the blacks reach Dmax. It
> looks terrible when it first comes out of the printer with very weak
> blacks until dry. Biggest change I have seen yet in a paper. Little
> warming in the 1st 24 hours.
>
> Typical warm/green Piezo tone under halogen and tungsten. Took it out
> doors and it looked completely neutral. I am more convinced that the
> majority of the Piezo green issue is metamerism.
>
> It is still startling to work with such white paper. Really makes the
> highlights pop. I'm warming up to the cool tone.

>>> Only $22.28 for 50 sheets of letter sized paper
>> 
>> I paid http://www.einks.net/index.html $18.00 for 50 8.5x11.
>> 
>> Martin


Martin,

From their respective websites it looks like einks is $18 for 25 sheets,
while mediastreet is $22.28 for 50 sheets. That seems like a shocking price
differential, but mediastreet is cheaper on the larger sizes too, though not
by that kind of differential, so I suppose it is possible.

Todd

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner <tflash@e...> 
wrote:
>  
> >>> Only $22.28 for 50 sheets of letter sized paper
> >> 
> >> I paid http://www.einks.net/index.html $18.00 for 50 8.5x11.
> >> 
> >> Martin
> 
> 
> Martin,
> 
> From their respective websites it looks like einks is $18 for 25 
sheets,
> while mediastreet is $22.28 for 50 sheets. That seems like a 
shocking price
> differential, but mediastreet is cheaper on the larger sizes too, 
though not
> by that kind of differential, so I suppose it is possible.
> 
> Todd

Todd,

But e-inks Torchon is double mediastreet's price! Maybe e-inks made a 
mistake on the 8.5x11 LPM?

Martin

on 8/15/01 3:37 PM, mwesley250@... wrote:

>> Martin,
>> 
>> From their respective websites it looks like einks is $18 for 25
> sheets,
>> while mediastreet is $22.28 for 50 sheets. That seems like a
> shocking price
>> differential, but mediastreet is cheaper on the larger sizes too,
> though not
>> by that kind of differential, so I suppose it is possible.
>> 
>> Todd
> 
> Todd,
> 
> But e-inks Torchon is double mediastreet's price! Maybe e-inks made a
> mistake on the 8.5x11 LPM?
> 
> Martin


Let me try this again, cause it eluded all of us the first time.

e-inks is $18 for only 25 sheets
Media street is only $22.28 for *50* sheets.
That's 50 vs 25.

Advantage media street, big time!


Todd

Todd,

Typo. Sorry about that. It was $18 for 50 sheets not 25 as I wrote in 
the earlier post. But they have already raised their price to $22 for 
50 sheets on their website as of this evening.

Apologies for the confusion,

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner <tflash@e...> 
wrote:

> on 8/15/01 3:37 PM, mwesley250@e... wrote:
> 
> >> Martin,
> >> 
> >> From their respective websites it looks like einks is $18 for 25
> > sheets,
> >> while mediastreet is $22.28 for 50 sheets. That seems like a
> > shocking price
> >> differential, but mediastreet is cheaper on the larger sizes too,
> > though not
> >> by that kind of differential, so I suppose it is possible.
> >> 
> >> Todd
> > 
> > Todd,
> > 
> > But e-inks Torchon is double mediastreet's price! Maybe e-inks 
made a

> > mistake on the 8.5x11 LPM?
> > 
> > Martin
> 
> 
> Let me try this again, cause it eluded all of us the first time.
> 
> e-inks is $18 for only 25 sheets
> Media street is only $22.28 for *50* sheets.
> That's 50 vs 25.
> 
> Advantage media street, big time!
> 
> 
> Todd

Perhaps it was my mistake, I could have sworn I saw it as 25 sheets, but I
could have been delirious. If you got 50 sheets when you bought it than it
was my mistake.

Todd

> Todd,
> 
> Typo. Sorry about that. It was $18 for 50 sheets not 25 as I wrote in
> the earlier post. But they have already raised their price to $22 for
> 50 sheets on their website as of this evening.
> 
> Apologies for the confusion,
> 
> Martin
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner <tflash@e...>
> wrote:
> 
>> on 8/15/01 3:37 PM, mwesley250@e... wrote:
>> 
>>>> Martin,
>>>> 
>>>> From their respective websites it looks like einks is $18 for 25
>>> sheets,
>>>> while mediastreet is $22.28 for 50 sheets. That seems like a
>>> shocking price
>>>> differential, but mediastreet is cheaper on the larger sizes too,
>>> though not
>>>> by that kind of differential, so I suppose it is possible.
>>>> 
>>>> Todd
>>> 
>>> Todd,
>>> 
>>> But e-inks Torchon is double mediastreet's price! Maybe e-inks
> made a
>>> mistake on the 8.5x11 LPM?
>>> 
>>> Martin
>> 
>> 
>> Let me try this again, cause it eluded all of us the first time.
>> 
>> e-inks is $18 for only 25 sheets
>> Media street is only $22.28 for *50* sheets.
>> That's 50 vs 25.
>> 
>> Advantage media street, big time!
>> 
>> 
>> Todd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you may
> unsubscribe by sending an email to:
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> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

You did see the Legion Photo Matte 8.5X11 listed at 25 sheets on 
einks.net. It was our error, it comes in 50 sheet packages.  The 11X17 
and 13X19 come in 25 sheet packages. We have corrected the error. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner <tflash@e...> 
wrote:
> Perhaps it was my mistake, I could have sworn I saw it as 25 sheets, 
but I
> could have been delirious. If you got 50 sheets when you bought it 
than it
> was my mistake.
> 
> Todd
> 
> > Todd,
> > 
> > Typo. Sorry about that. It was $18 for 50 sheets not 25 as I wrote 
in
> > the earlier post. But they have already raised their price to $22 
for

> > 50 sheets on their website as of this evening.
> > 
> > Apologies for the confusion,
> > 
> > Martin