Digital BW, The Print

So has anyone compared the new MIS "double Density" black with the older standard MIS black?

Tim A

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ruhrfoto@yahoo.de 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 2:48 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: MIS Inks with Piezo Software


  Martin,

  did you get my offline-message some hours ago about using the 
  Piezo driver and MIS FS inks (and BTW did you get my offline 
  infos about Hahnemühle Photo Rag?? - I got no answer)?

  If you followed the MIS web site in the last months you surely 
  recognized that they anounced a set of "Cone/PIEZO 
  REPLACEMENT INKs" in spring. They never answered my 
  inquiries in this regard, and later that anouncement disappeared 
  from their website to make place for the anouncement of the 
  "FULL SPECTRUM INKs" (Synonym for Continuous Tone!?)
  Nevertheless on their "News"-link you can find the following 
  plans for the year 2001 (from Jan 4,2001):

  "Jan 4, 2001 - Plans for 2001
  Last year started with the Y2K challenge, not. This year, 2001, 
  should be an exciting year. We started several projects last year 
  and finished some of them, but many will come to fruition this 
  year. Here is a list of our active projects. We can not guarantee 
  completion dates or total success, but we wanted you to know 
  what may lie ahead. 
  *      Replacement Inks for the Piezography System at $52 per set...
  ........."

  So I assume, the FULL SPECTRUM INKs were developed as 
  Cone replacement inks, but who knows.... now that they are on 
  the market, lets try what we can do with them...

  I myself got my set aof MIS FS inks yesterday and installed them 
  with CIS on my second 1160 (backup) printer without any 
  problems (no clogging though I didn´t use cleaning carts)
  I printed a Piezo image on my first 1160 with piezo inks then 
  swapped to the MIS printer and printed the same image with MIS 
  inks using the Piezo Driver. 
  Surprise (or not?):
  Prints were nearly identicall at the first attempt. MIS inks printed a 
  bit more contrasty (seems even sharper), but after a small 
  amount of curve adjustments both prints were rather identical. 
  But MIS inks have a slight cooler tint.
  My Piezo inks never printed green, so I wouldn´t use this green  
  vs. neutral comparison. But my Piezo inks are warmer than the 
  MIS inks, that is obvious.
  I´m looking forward to getting more experiences.
  Main question - how will the prints look in some weeks??
  Is the ink as archival as Cone ink?
  I´m curious.
  Bernd



  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... 
  wrote:
  > I noticed on the MIS site under "News" the mention that the Full 
  > Spectrum quad inks can be use with either the Epson driver 
  using John 
  > Woolf's workflow or with the Piezo driver.
  > 
  > They said,
  > 
  > "We had some confusion on the workflow by John Woolf. It has 
  been 
  > corrected now. Thank you for your patience. If you use this with 
  the 
  > Epson driver, it makes great quad tone prints. The Full 
  Spectrum inks 
  > will work with either the Epson driver or the Cone driver."
  > 
  > Can someone give some first hand reports comparing the MIS 
  FS inks 
  > and Piezo inks with the Piezo driver? Is this a less expensive 
  way to 
  > get ink for your Piezo system?
  > 
  > Martin Wesley


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Mike,
I had a discussion with Paul about his comparisons. If I got him 
right, he used the classic MIS Quad inkset for comparison. But I 
may be wrong.
Paul??
Greetings
Bernd



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Michael J. Kravit" 
<kravit@b...> wrote:
> Bernd,
> 
> Paul Roark has done significant amounts of testing with Piezo 
and MIS inks. The rate of fade and the rate of color change in the 
two inksets is slightly different, but from what he says they both 
get to the same end point. 

> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Michael J. Kravit, AIA
> Architect/Photographer
> www.kravit.net/photography
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bernd wrote:

>...Paul ... used the classic MIS Quad inkset for comparison.


Correct.  I have not fade tested the full "Full Spectrum."  They are based
on the same black as the VM black, which is equal to Piezo black -- which is
excellent.  The Piezo problem is the midtones and the dyes that I think are
thrown in.  (Is there a way on this forum to show the image of the ink dots
that show the Piezo magenta blue-green [dye?] fringe?)

So, while I have not tested the FS inks, I'd expect them to do very well.

By the way, the FS black is so close to Piezo black, that if one sees a
difference is the blacks, it's probably random or a workflow difference.
The Epson driver produces darker blacks than the Piezo driver (not the
Pro24, though).  That is a visible difference.

Paul






--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Michael J. Kravit"
<kravit@b...> wrote:
> Bernd,
>
> Paul Roark has done significant amounts of testing with Piezo
and MIS inks. The rate of fade and the rate of color change in the
two inksets is slightly different, but from what he says they both
get to the same end point.

>
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael J. Kravit, AIA

Paul,

If you have any image files to illustrate a post, just send them to 
me or Antonis with an explaination of how you would like them 
described or titled. We can post them in the "Files" section of the 
group homepage.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Bernd wrote:
> 
> >...Paul ... used the classic MIS Quad inkset for comparison.
> 
> 
> Correct.  I have not fade tested the full "Full Spectrum."  They 
are based
> on the same black as the VM black, which is equal to Piezo black -- 
which is
> excellent.  The Piezo problem is the midtones and the dyes that I 
think are
> thrown in.  (Is there a way on this forum to show the image of the 
ink dots
> that show the Piezo magenta blue-green [dye?] fringe?)

Paul,

Send the image files to me or Antonis and we can post them in 
the "Files" section of the group homepage. 

> 
> So, while I have not tested the FS inks, I'd expect them to do very 
well.
> 
> By the way, the FS black is so close to Piezo black, that if one 
sees a
> difference is the blacks, it's probably random or a workflow 
difference.
> The Epson driver produces darker blacks than the Piezo driver (not 
the

> Pro24, though).  That is a visible difference.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Michael J. Kravit"
> <kravit@b...> wrote:
> > Bernd,
> >
> > Paul Roark has done significant amounts of testing with Piezo
> and MIS inks. The rate of fade and the rate of color change in the
> two inksets is slightly different, but from what he says they both
> get to the same end point.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Michael J. Kravit, AIA

Bernd,

Paul Roark has done significant amounts of testing with Piezo and MIS inks. The rate of fade and the rate of color change in the two inksets is slightly different, but from what he says they both get to the same end point. 


Regards,

Michael J. Kravit, AIA
Architect/Photographer
www.kravit.net/photography


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Bernd wrote:
> 
> >...Paul ... used the classic MIS Quad inkset for comparison.
> 
> 
> Correct.  I have not fade tested the full "Full Spectrum."  They 
are based
> on the same black as the VM black, which is equal to Piezo 
black -- which is
> excellent.  The Piezo problem is the midtones and the dyes 
that I think are
> thrown in.  (Is there a way on this forum to show the image of 
the ink dots
> that show the Piezo magenta blue-green [dye?] fringe?)
> 
> So, while I have not tested the FS inks, I'd expect them to do 
very well.
> 
> By the way, the FS black is so close to Piezo black, that if one 
sees a
> difference is the blacks, it's probably random or a workflow 
difference.
> The Epson driver produces darker blacks than the Piezo driver 
(not the
> Pro24, though).  That is a visible difference.
> 
> Paul


Paul, could you enlighten me please a bit more.
Do you say the MIS FS inks are based on the same black carbon 
base as the piezo inks are - and that the only difference is, that 
piezo inks carry some amount of dye, ... or is that overkill?
Bernd

In a message dated 08/17/2001 2:50:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
paul.roark@... writes:

<< By the way, the FS black is so close to Piezo black, that if one sees a
 difference is the blacks, it's probably random or a workflow difference.
 The Epson driver produces darker blacks than the Piezo driver (not the
 Pro24, though).  That is a visible difference. >>

Paul your saying the Pro 24 blacks are? Lighter?,darker? "Visable differance" 
in what way? I would guess they are not as black with the Pro 24 Epson driver?
Steve M.